- Hello lovely people.
Now you may remember these two fabulous faces,
this is Jamie and Shaaba,
and we did a little collab at Christmas talking about
what it's like being teetotal when you're going
to Christmas parties, when you're socializing,
how that works, Claudia's here at the end like, "I drink."
(laughing)
You know, diversity in the video.
But today we're gonna be talking about something
that's very exciting, that we are very much
looking forward to, and that is Parenthood.
But, parenthood with some caveats.
Because apparently these guys are
suddenly gonna wait five years.
(laughing) Which I didn't know
before I said, "let's make this video together."
But, as couples, we are both couples who are part
of the LGBTQ plus...
Society, genre, community? - [Friends] Community.
- I don't know where I was going with that.
(laughing) - Genre
- Society, it's a secret club. - But then, but we also deal
with disabilities and--
- Interracial. - Yes.
- Is that, were you coming to that?
- That was exactly what I was going to say.
- That's fine, you jump on in wife, you jump on in.
So, if you go over right now to Jamie's channel,
there's a video where we're discussing all of those kind of,
the heavy issues.
- Yeah, fears.
- Yeah-- - Or worries.
- Like our plans for the future and our kind of fears.
We made this video, which is all about our hopes
for the future, the things we're really excited about,
and we'll be answering some of your questions
that are asked on my Instagram,
which is @jessicaoutofthecloset.
Should we all do our other Instagram names?
Anyway-- (laughing)
- That's not what this video's about.
- We're gonna make great parents.
- You guys have been together for how long?
- Oh, it will be nine years this November.
- Yeah, and they're getting married.
(clapping)
Very exciting, and we are already married,
married for three and a half blissful years.
- Very exciting, adventurous,
jam-packed filled years, actually.
- Yeah. (laughing)
- Not that blissful. - An awful lot just happened.
- Blissfully in love, but really like, woo.
- Yeah. - Well then.
- And we've been together for five and a half years.
And we're a bit obsessed with each other.
- Like (joking) all my life.
(laughing) - No, sorry.
So, let's just start with saying
how we each personally identify and what impact
that may have on future parenting.
- My name's Shaaba, my pronouns are she/her,
I am a bisexual Asian.
I don't know if the Asian is important.
- Yeah. - It is if it is to you.
- Yeah, that comes into, yeah. - You feel like it is, yeah.
I'm Jamie, and I'm a transgender man.
- You had to think about that did you?
(laughing) - Yes.
I am a man who is trans.
- But sometimes that means that people will think
I'm just bi, because I'm with you,
which is not the case, and we want all intents and purposes
our kids to be able to see us as male and female,
even though we can't naturally sort of conceive in that way.
- Or can they?
Watch Jamie's video. (oohing)
- Science.
- I'm Jessica and I am she/her, and a cis-gender woman,
and I'm also disabled, and that worries me
I guess when it comes to raising children,
because even though I know that I can 100% be there
for them emotionally and love them with all of my heart,
I also just have days when I,
I'm in so much pain I can't lift my head, and that sucks.
I'm also a lesbian.
- Yeah, I was gonna say, you didn't put that bit in,
(laughing) until you were at the end.
- Well, I was leading into it.
I'm a lesbian, and this is my lesbian wife.
- You do have the best word, lesbian is so cool.
- Lesbian. - Isn't it good to say?
[Everyone] Lesbian.
- I'm a Jessican. (oohing)
I don't know if that works, does it?
- No. - It doesn't sound as good as
lesbian. - Jessisexual
- Jessicasexual. - Yeah.
- That's not actually true, I am just gay.
(laughing)
But I make promises now. (laughing)
And I'm she/her, and I'm a cis woman.
So, the first question, and we did sort of,
we did cover this in Jamie's video, but is,
"Is it easy for you to adopt a child?"
Our couples, we've both said that adoption is something we'd
be really interested in, it's something that we think
is obviously a massive positive for the world,
as is fostering, it's great stuff,
but I as a disabled person would have difficulty adopting
a child as my first child, because they would need
to see that I can raise a child in order to give me a child,
which is like a weird catch-22.
- Hm-mm. - So unfair.
- Rock in a hard place, isn't it?
- I covered this a bit more in Jamie's video, but it is,
so many of these questions are about adoption--
- Adoption. - and fostering.
- Yeah. - I wonder if that's
because people think that's the default for--
- Mm, yeah. - Like our community--
- That's true. - couples would do.
- Or it's one of, it is one of the prominent options,
I guess, for most people.
- We're currently planning on having a baby
the biological way first. - Uh huh.
- And then adoption later, once I can prove
I can look after a baby.
- I've noticed, when I talk to my work colleagues
and things, they just assumed it's IVF.
- Oh. - And when I'm like, oh no no,
it's just like IUI, which just basically means like,
intrauterine insemination, they're like,
"Oh, so you can just put sperm in there?"
I'm like, "yeah." (laughing)
Ya know, like. - Yeah.
- I don't, yeah, I don't know why it has to be so complex.
It's like, you have to extract the egg out of the body,
and then like, you know. - Oh yeah, I'm just gonna pop
it back out, yeah.
"What do you want to be called, mom, momma, bio-name?"
- That is a great question.
- Dad.
- Daddy? - Dad.
- Daddy.
- Daddy or Dad?
- Daddy when they're like little,
and then Dad when they're older,
not Father. - 'Cause it's really weird
when 30 year olds go, "Daddy".
(laughing)
- That's really interesting, 'cause in our culture
it's Ma and Pa, so you wouldn't want to be a Pa?
- Oh, I wouldn't mind if they call me Pa, but like--
- Oh my god, Ma and Pa.
- Yeah, or Momma and Papa. - So "Little House
"on the Prairie." (laughing)
I love it. - No, but with the accent
it's more, Ma. (laughing)
- What about you?
- You sound a bit like a sheep.
(laughing) - So, would you like to be?
- Ma. - I think I'd like to be a Ma.
- You call your mom, Ma?
- Yeah. - Like to her face?
- Or Momma. - Yeah, Momma.
- Yeah. - That's really adorable.
- I don't mind, just one of those, Dad, Daddy, Papa,
Pa. - Yeah.
I would be Mommy, Mommy, and you wanna be Momma.
- Yeah.
- (gasping) I love it. - Momma.
[Everyone] Momma.
- That suits you. - That really fits
with your aesthetic. - I know.
(laughing)
Well, so I find it very odd when there's been couples,
they're like, "We're Mom and Mommy."
Really, are you though?
Can that child tell those words apart?
- Well, also like, also it's like what you said
with Daddy, like as they get older they'll probably
just say, "Mom", for me rather than Mommy.
- But I can just always
be Momma. - Momma.
- This is a bigger one, "How would you handle
"it if your future child made homophobic
"or transphobic comments?"
- That's like-- (Shaaba throat clearing)
- I mean, I don't think they would.
- My worst nightmare.
I would really hope they wouldn't,
but in a hypothetical situation I guess
it's just how any like parent would tell their kid,
like how that's wrong, and if they had that view,
if they were like trans-friendly, LGBT plus friendly
and everything, you just sit them down and explain it.
It would be heart-breaking though, especially because,
you know. - It would really hurt.
I genuinely have like tears coming up to my eyes
just thinking about it. - Oh darling.
- Like could you imagine?
I could see it happening like, imagine if your kid
just comes home from the playground, and is like,
"Oh, Mommy, that's so gay."
You know like. - Mm, but I think
that's like, that's just like an educational thing,
like if they-- - Yeah.
- And when they get older and become teenagers,
they're going to say potentially because of their hormones,
things that they know is deliberately gonna
be your weak spots. - Yeah.
I know that's gonna happen. - And like, that's all kids.
And that's like it doesn't matter what your sexuality is,
your child will pick up what your weak spot is.
- They'll find something.
It might not even be that your trans-ness, it might be like,
your glasses. - Your big nose.
(laughing)
- My glasses. - To clarify.
No, no, no, to clarify, Jamie's talking about himself.
You don't have a big nose. - My big, oh no, my big nose.
Mine, no, no. - Jamie, what have you done.
- Oh my god. - All right, well okay,
next question, next question. - 100% my big nose.
- "How will you approach gender identity?
"Will you take a gender neutral approach?"
- Hm. - To your child.
- Yes, so 'cause this has been in the news as well recently,
people raising their kids non-binary.
- With like how I feel, is not with like pronouns and names,
but expression and like roles in society, neutral.
They can wear what they want play with whatever toys,
like do whatever sports, activities, but--
- We would raise them--
- Use pronouns. - And refer to them
as their assigned birth at sex.
- (laughing) Birth at sex?
- Sorry, sex at birth. - Yeah.
- And then, should they, obviously we wouldn't want them to
be trans, because it's a-- - But just because we don't
want them to experience that. - Horrible thing for them
to have to go through, based on stigma, et cetera,
et cetera, but should that happen, we'd clearly be able
to deal with that.
- Yeah, that's an interesting question in itself actually,
the, would you want your child to be X?
- Everyone thinks that I'm rude for saying that, but like,
no I don't, 'cause
I wouldn't want to-- - I think it would
be more confusing for the child
to try and bring them up genderless, you know?
Personally. - Yeah, right.
- And then also what are you saying,
are you saying something's wrong with,
well is something wrong with the sex that they're born
with if you bring them up like that.
- Sure.
All right, we fully intend to raise our children
in a gender expression neutrality.
- Yes. - Where even when they're
small children-- - Barbies and Ken dolls.
- It's gonna be like, you play with what you want
to play with, I'm gonna make sure that you have everything
all of the options, and that you have clothes
that make you free and comfortable and happy,
and you can move around in.
I don't care if someone looks at my child and goes,
"Oh your son is so cute," and I'm like, "It's a girl,
"but sure, whatever." - Right.
(laughing) - You just said
my baby's cute, it's fine.
- Your baby name ideas, do you have any rules?
Baby names? - We have exact the names.
- We have the names.
- You have exact names? - Yeah, but we're not,
I don't even want to share it.
- Yeah, neither do we.
- Just jinxing, but they're there.
- I have a weird baby name quirk, in that we're called,
Claudia and Jessica, and our dogs are called,
Walter and Matilda.
- So you want a "uh".
- Yeah. - Aw.
- Yeah, so I will only consider baby names
that end in a "uh". - There's quite a lot of names
- Boys names that end in E-R, girls names that end
in I-A. - Shaaba.
You shouldn't call your kid Shaaba, but I'm just saying.
- Uh? - 'Cause my names an "uh",
even though it's an A. - Oh.
- Alba - It has an "uh" sound.
- Yeah, yeah. - Well, it's like Jessica.
- Yeah, even you yourself. - Clara, Evelina.
- All of this. - Andrea, it's like everyone
we know, lot's of names end with a.
- All of my sister's names, and I've got five them,
all end in "uh", and my mom wanted all of our first initials
to start with an S.
So, I'm Shaaba, and my next sister down is Shazia,
but then they were like no,
because we'll have the same initials.
- Too confusing. - Like on post and stuff,
that's why they did it with the A.
But then my youngest sister on that side is called Zara.
And they chose Zara, 'cause they were like zed, the end.
- Done. - Full stop.
(laughing)
So, one thing I would like, because it's a thing
in our family, all of the names are Islamic.
Does that make sense? - Yeah.
- The names that we've chosen are, yeah, but it's funny,
because one like Ben - But also easily pronouncable
in England? - Yes, yeah, like Ben
is an Islamic name, and you would think or Adam, ya know.
- "What do your families think about it?"
(clapping) - Oo.
- That is a loaded-- - My mom's like, "I am the
"only one of my sisters who is not a grandmother."
We're like, okay, sorry, sorry, Jesus.
She'd want us to have had babies like three years ago.
- That's so adorable.
- She's like, "You got married, now what?"
(laughing) - I love it.
- My dad is like, wants us to have kids,
he finds the whole process
of how we do it a little bit weird.
- Confusing, he's a very British man, Claud's dad.
- Okay. (laughing)
Yeah. - He's not like,
he's supportive, but he's like--
- He just doesn't know
how to say the right thing. - Fumbly with the words.
- Or do the right thing.
- I feel like my mom thinks she's supportive.
Your parents are fantastic.
- My mom is like, "I can't wait to be a grandma."
- Give me babies. - Yeah, yeah, she's very cute.
- And your dad, he's so good with younger kids as well.
- Oh, my yeah, it's so sweet,
so I think they're very excited, and I think your mom
is looking forward to being a grandma.
I think it sounds maybe a little bit like your dad,
but it's kind of like
on board generally. - She's the kind of person
who'd say, "I love the gays, they're so friendly."
- Yeah, says the wrong thing.
- And also, slightly confused about how the process
of how we're gonna have kids
and is worried about it. - It was very important to her
though that the kids were biologically mine,
which I mean is possible, so.
- I have two genetic disabilities, so my parents are like,
"We just want grandkids who are fine, we don't really mind."
So, that's nice.
- It's not really a compliment, yeah.
- I know. (laughing)
- Not really sure how to respond, sorry.
- Yeah, me neither, it's fine.
They can't do without me, so.
- Ya have to love 'em.
- What, parents or babies?
(laughing)
- "When do you play to tell your child?"
- As soon as-- - Tell your child what?
- "About what makes you different."
I'm just gonna add on the end of that.
- I feel like the brown thing they're just gonna notice.
(laughing)
Straight away. - They'd be like,
"Mom, is that?" (squeaking) (laughing)
- Because you've gotta different skin colors
in different families, like your children
won't question other people's skin color?
- Like, we've had a chat about when we would tell our kids,
and I think it's kind of as early
as they would comfortably understand.
- Where they come from, and the fact that you're trans.
- So, my mom was told she was adopted when she
was like three or four years old, she was really young,
and that kind of worked out quite well,
because it didn't really change her view of her parents,
she just had an understanding of where she came from.
So, I think we'll take the same approach, like,
but not too young where it would just like (whooshing).
- When do we discuss the sexuality?
'Cause obviously for you guys, I imagine
that's quite obvious they'll understand that
from a young age, but if I was like,
"Mommy likes men and women."
- I don't know if it would be necessary.
- Like, "Wait, does that mean you
"like Daddy-- - You're gonna leave?
- "and you like someone else?" - Yeah.
- I would probably just tell them the information
that was necessary about where they came from, and kind of
what they could learn about us in the future.
And if it came up when they were older.
- I would hope Sex-Ed in schools would definitely
be sophisticated enough to cover that.
And be like, yep, that's me. - Yeah, I think it'd be fine.
- We would have to, people ask us like,
"Would you tell your children which of you is biologically
"the mom, would you tell them how they came to be, like,
"where you got the sperm from,
"would you tell them all that?"
And I just think we'd always bring them up,
it's a bit weird actually because we currently do this thing
where she'll look at me, and she'll be like,
"Oh yeah, the baby will get that from you."
- Yeah, we forget about like-- - We forget all the time.
- How science and genetics work, and I'm always just like,
"Oh, they'll be like," like you know, we just assume
it's gonna be a morph of the two of us.
- We've done the same, ever since I've been like,
oh if they get a mix of our hair, like they'll
have the most beautiful hair, or you know like,
mocha colored skin and all this stuff.
- Because they could have your mannerisms and stuff,
so they will be a reflection of both of you.
- The mannerisms yeah. - There's so much that's
not a, like my mom is very much like my grandma.
- "How do you plan on handling unsolicited comments
"from strangers?" - Oh yeah.
- With the added complexity of having public profiles.
- With you guys, from absolute strangers,
like if you were in a restaurant,
because like you're both presenting as
like a heterosexual couple. - We have a privilege, yeah.
- Straight couple privilege. - Yeah.
Whereas, for us, it's like,
what we've talked about is how like they might be like,
"Oh, which one of you is the mom?"
Or like, "Who's kids are they?"
Or like, "Where are their husbands?"
- "Are they sisters?" - "Where's Daddy today?"
And things like that, that's really gonna grate on us.
And it's gonna be forever having to come out to people
all the time, which we do anyway but--
- Yeah, being gay is coming out every single day.
- Yeah, you just have to kinda accept that that's how it is.
- In one way I'm very grateful for that and I realize
that it is a privilege, because you're not gonna get people
out rightly, who you don't know, saying things without fear.
- Yeah, or assuming things or asking weird questions.
- But one thing I have, that I've experienced
with the wedding stuff that I know will never go away,
I'm always scared that people are going to find out
who we've already trusted and gotten into relationships with
and then be horrible, do you know what I mean?
- So, the other one like, our cake made
by somebody who turned out to be very transphobic
or homophobic or something, so we're kind of like--
- But like with the kids, I wouldn't want our kids
to make friends with kids and then the parents
to think that you know, we are just
the vanilla cis-het couple.
- And then finding out. - And then be like,
"Wait, you're those?" (throat cracking)
Ya know? - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- I feel like that could be-- - Sort of be tried as
transparent. - Just as damaging.
- Oh, and our kids getting penalized in anyway,
because of their parents oh. - I know, it's sad.
I do have a happy thought though to wrap up the video.
Just came to my mind, I'm so excited.
Baby's first pride. (awing)
Just imagine how adorable that's gonna be.
- What are you gonna dress them in?
- Yeah, or like as toddlers.
And they're gonna bring-- - Pass the rainbow.
those flags to school, or like little rainbow wings.
- Those little like crayons on their cheek.
- Oh my god. - Oh yes.
- Baby rainbow wings.
- Thank you so much for watching, I hope we
have answered some of your burning questions.
Do remember to go and check out the video on Jamie's channel
where you will learn a little bit more about the journeys
that we intend to go on, oo.
If you have any suggestions for baby names that end
in a-- (laughing)
Please leave them in the comments down below.
And remember to go and subscribe to both
of these people's wonderful YouTube channels, which are...
- Oh, Shaaba. - Jammidodger, with an I.
(laughing)
- To confuse people. - Jammidodgeri.
Wouldn't people say that, just put
an I at the end. (laughing) - Jammidodgeri.
- See you in the next video. (smooching)
(bright music)