no wonder he got shot to be honest man
do we show doubt in the Golden Rule I'm
Neil woods
I'm a former undercover police officer
now a board member of the law
enforcement Action Partnership and I'm
here today to look at some undercover
scenes in movies the ethics of
undercover policing is actually quite
straightforward because as you're oh you
remain a police officer so your first
duty is to preserve life that they have
no other option there Billy it's a
police officer's duty always remains the
same it's actually quite nice detail in
the in the verbals that he was using to
make it clear that his knowledge of the
situation the trauma to the body the
medical information was going to make a
real difference to the likelihood of his
survival so so actually it's not quite
nicely scripted really but there was a
situation where I was in an isolated
place with three problematic heroin
users one of which was yellow with a
HEPA suffering from hepatitis C and I
found out just before he injected that
he'd been in police custody and had no
tolerance and then another one it was
only two filters between them and so he
injected without a filter into his groin
you know the chances of him having an
embolism as a result of that very risky
injecting behavior some vulnerable
people really putting themselves at risk
it was a quite a frightening situation
we have never met each other we are
complete strangers right also we're
gonna need a signal to bolt out of there
in case there is danger and that signal
is lick your lips try it no no
well never have signals is what I would
say but when when I have worked on a job
very early on I worked with a drug squad
and I've been meeting this guy who was
just wanting to see the money and I said
to them to the to the squad there's no
way is there gonna be any drugs there's
gonna be no drugs and he said well we'll
have a signal just in case the drugs of
her of me putting my arm on top of the
car only when we got in the car did I
remember that that's what he did all the
time and so all the truck squad running
arrested the guy and there was no drugs
so signals can always go wrong to do
this job you got to be a great act you
gotta be naturalistic you got to be
naturalistic as hell you are not an
actor you have to play a different
version of yourself but if you are there
with the same people day in day out you
can't maintain an act because it becomes
fragile it is a good thing to have annek
anecdotes ready you do you need
anecdotes at the time when you run away
from that security guard when he caught
you shoplifting the person you tripped
over what happened when you fell over
but you can't rehearse them from a piece
of paper that got to be yours they've
got to be your storytelling from your
imagination and they've got to be from
your own personality you're not gonna
get hurt they believe every American
super cool say I was pairing up with
someone working with another undercover
cop if I saw them do that in the mirror
it would not fill me full of confidence
at all if you need that reassurance
perhaps you're not where you need to be
no one regatta
to be honest Mandy we showed out didn't
they golden rule that level of
corruption where there is a spy from one
come in the other camp people sit assume
that that's unusual but it's not I was
on an undercover operation trying to
infiltrate just the periphery of a
cartel but that cartel had a spy right
at the heart of my camp one of my backup
team was replaced for foreign half
months into the operation with someone
that I shook the hand off and twelve
months later it turned out that that
person he'd been paid to join the police
as in just like the departed the time I
met him he'd been in the police for
seven years wait there's still one phone
up where the handler is sat next to the
covert team and actually receiving
messages from the undercover while
they're there that's a no-no you have to
have a complete separation from any
covert investigating team yeah I would
have had a mobile phone and sometimes to
mobile phones because one would have
been an electronic open mic and the
other the phone would be a normal
operating phone that had have all
different names in that would relate to
different people I could talk about my
legend because if your gangster friends
then see you with a phone and they think
I'm gonna check your phone and they see
that you sent a message at that time or
eat to even send a message at that time
is ludicrous
[Music]
shambo's guy Glaser he picked up on the
hostility and there's the suspicion the
moment he did that you know they picked
up on their body language subtle as it
was you have to be sensitive to
colloquialism but in my experience if
someone is suspicious of me they will
challenge it instantly
what's his occupation fishermen where
were you born how a fax no discussion
what you did a birthday February 21st
1952 yeah it's interesting this but
whenever you're working on the cover you
have to have your cover story you have
to have your legend but in domestic
undercover work the legend that you
build is more about where you've been
the experiences you've had the people
that you know so for example if I was
working undercover and I I say to
someone that I used to go drinking in
the Knox head in Lincoln I would need to
know the names that personally worked
the bar on a Wednesday what's your
middle name what's your middle name leo
shoot him he's an American spy bit harsh
undercover work is a confidence trick
you don't go into it unless you know
exactly what who you are for that role
and I don't need anyone testing me for
that because testing suggests there's
some kind of vulnerability there and
you've got to feel invulnerable
yeah
good tasty smooth let me say I uh I take
the whole stash off your hands for free
you [ __ ] yeah okay yeah it's a good
way of trying to get you killed as
opposed there's an arrogance with him
that wouldn't really fit with undercover
work you are completely separate from
normal police work you have no you don't
have your warrant card or your badge or
anything like that on you you are for
intents and purposes pretending to be
someone else and you would be highly at
risk if you did have anything on you
which would I which could identify you
as a police officer I mean Serpico's
meant to be based on a on a memoir isn't
it it's meant to actually be based on on
a true story and it's about the sort of
beginnings of undercover work as a
tactic I still find it really difficult
to believe I mean maybe it's true but
it's just it just seems so bizarre
doesn't it handing out drugs at our
briefing for Serpico there are many
scenes which appear very unrealistic but
you have to remember the context that is
the 1970s
fresh from Nixon's drug war for a major
Hollywood film at least it dared to look
at the grimy underbelly of it though the
techniques were more about how to avoid
being in a situation where you would
force to be forced to take drugs and for
heroin and crack that's quite easy
because most of the exchanges are done
in places where it wouldn't be so easy
to do it I could skin up or I could cook
up heroin in a syringe perhaps he had
take some speed once which was quite
uncomfortable cannabis a few times I
think maybe three times in disguise in
black shoes and whites
if you need to look scruffy you look
scruffy that I used to play a traveling
thief so I'd be in a full track suit and
Nike Air Max trainers other times I
would wear clothes that would make me
look like I was living partially in
squats you know I'll be
struggling with live tyre sidon tie your
shoe right now
[Music]
I think you'd need to have superhuman
powers like Jason Bourne to actually
avoid full surveillance like that
because the people that have worked with
who were very good at surveillance
you've got very little chance of getting
away from us or spotting them actually
wait I know it's a visual aid in the
film but it is rather ridiculous to
actually lift you to the pelt to talk to
a microphone or even have an earpiece in
your ear with a wire actually but why
would you have that but of course it's
quite visual for a film you have a
microphone a touch to you which is
discreet and you don't need to speak it
to your wrist all the Pell or whatever
you just speak police or security
services who are good at surveillance
they know where and when to use the
right codes you never break cover that
the golden rule is you never show out
going deeper undercover or rather
wondering who you can trust very early
on in my career I realized that I was it
potentially the greatest risk from my
colleagues and most under Corps work is
about the drug war and the trouble is
it's half a trillion dollar industry
worldwide and that inevitably causes
corruption I've come across that
corruption many times and that's the
thing that's always made me feel the
most unsafe so the most unsettling thing
about undercover work is not really
knowing who you can trust so Johnny what
do you think think you made your point
I see a roll
it's extremely far-fetched you don't go
into undercover work intending to take
drugs
the vast majority times I've bought
drugs and someone said and I'll go and
do it then I would say I don't want to
take it now why'd you want me to take it
now the training from the core work
isn't actually about behaviors or about
how to roll a spliff it's actually about
the law and the ethics that's the
training really the rest you get Bert
you work out later my partner here you
want to see that Branagh way neat
docking had to seem a bit daft I think
any mistake that your partner makes you
both have you both implicated you know
if this is a suspicion on one of you
then as soon as someone has the
slightest bit of suspicion about you
they're looking for other things to be
suspicious about one of the first things
I'll do is look you up and down how long
they'll unconsciously do it and then
they'll move on to the verbal
questioning they'll usually ask ask
something like an open question like
where did you say you from again you've
got to put that fire out very quickly if
there's two of you they're looking you
up and down they're looking the other
one up and down they've got twice as
much information to work with and become
suspicious with so they can become
suspicious much quicker if there's more
than one of you I'm John and this is
Trevor John Knapton Trevor box you can
old bill mate
your ultimate nightmare really as an
undercover someone going locking the
door just after you've been challenged
they're aggressive people he's
responding in the appropriate way in the
right situation and he's thinking on his
feet and he's keeping the eye contact I
think it's very realistic scene it's
exactly the kind of challenge that you
would get but who are you it's your
classic first challenge question really
in fact I I was buying our football
hooligans actually in Derby and they
were that kind of people but I was
pushed up against the wall said he was
gonna rip my head off
down my neck you know and he was
instantly violent and the people around
him because we're in it we were like a
behind a pub in the outdoor area like
they all responded really quite
interesting be quite quickly they were
all instantly part of the violence was
about to go off you know if there was
any but my response I'm sorry mate
wasn't mean to tussle you know sorry
and that meek humble response was the
right way to go
yeah okay yeah it's a good way of trying
to get you killed as opposed