>>> AS EUROPE ROILS OVER ITS
WORST REFUGEE CRISIS IN NEARLY
EIGHT DECADES, PRESIDENT BIDEN
ANNOUNCED THE UNITED STATES WILL
TAKE IN 100,000 UKRAINIAN
REFUGEES FLEEING PUTIN'S
INVASION.
NOTABLY ON THURSDAY, THE WHITE
HOUSE ALSO ANNOUNCED THE MOST
SIGNIFICANT OVERHAUL TO THE
NATION'S LEGAL ASYLUM PROCESS,
IN ALMOST 30 YEARS, WHICH COMES
INTERESTINGLY AFTER A REPORT IN
"THE WALL STREET JOURNAL"
EARLIER THIS MONTH OF AN
INCREASED NUMBER OF UKRAINIANS
TRYING TO CLAIM ASYLUM AS THEY
CROSS INTO THE UNITED STATES
FROM MEXICO.
RAISING INTERESTING QUESTIONS
ABOUT WHAT BEARING A FOREIGN WAR
MAY HAVE ON OUR DOMESTIC
IMMIGRATION POLITICS.
JOINING ME NOW, JUSTIN GUEST,
ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT GEORGE
MASON UNIVERSITY, AND AUTHOR OF
"
THE NEW BOOK "MAJORITY MINORITY"
WHICH TAKES A DEEP DIVE INTO THE
ONGOING DEMOGRAPHIC AND
IDEOLOGICAL CHANGES IN THE
UNITED STATES.
JUSTIN, WELCOME BACK TO "THE
SUNDAY SHOW."
LET'S BROADEN THE APERTURE FOR A
MINUTE.
HELP US UNDERSTAND THE APPARENT
CONVERGENCES BETWEEN THE UNITED
STATES AND EUROPE'S FAR RIGHT
FACTIONS.
IS THE WAR IN UKRAINE
DESTABILIZING THEIR POLITICAL
POWER IN THE U.S.?
>> THANKS SO MUCH, JONATHAN.
GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.
CERTAINLY IT IS MAKING THINGS
UNCOMFORTABLE FOR THE FAR RIGHT.
VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS BEEN ICON FOR
THE FAR RIGHT FOR A VERY LONG
TIME.
THE FAR RIGHT IS UNIFIED BY A
LIBERAL AND OFTEN UNDEMOCRATIC
NORMS.
AND HE HAS BEEN A SORT OF LONE
STAR FOR MANY OF THE LUMINARIES,
MANY OF THE LEADERS ACROSS A
VARIETY OF COUNTRIES INCLUDING
ITALY, HUNGARY, POLAND AND
ELSEWHERE.
THE OTHER THING THAT UNITES THE
FAR RIGHT IN EUROPE, BECAUSE
THEY ARE QUITE DIVERSE PARTIES,
IS DISDAIN FOR IMMIGRATION.
AND VERY STRONG NATIVISM AND
NATIONALISM AGAINST IMMIGRANTS.
AND SO THE OVERWHELMING SUPPORT
FOR UKRAINE AND UKRAINIAN
REFUGEES HAS REALLY MADE THINGS
UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE IT
VIOLATES SO MANUFACTUREVIOLATE
S SO MANY OF THE PRINCIPLE
PILLARS THAT UPHELD THE FAR
RIGHT THIS LAST DECADE.
>> THE FAR RIGHT AS WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT IT IN EUROPE DOES
HAVE CONNECTIONS SCONNECTIONS, M
WITH THE FAR RIGHT IN THE UNITED
STATES, RIGHT?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
SO DONALD TRUMP IN MANY WAYS
INSPIRED MANY FAR RIGHT LEADERS
AND FUELED THEIR RISE IN THE
MOST RECENT FIVE TO SIX YEARS.
AND CERTAINLY VICE VERSA, EUROPE
CAME FIRST WITH ITS FAR RIGHT
MOVEMENT BECAUSE THEY WERE
EMPOWERED BY THEIR ELECTORAL
INSTITUTIONS, WHICH ALLOWED
PARTIES TO ENTER GOVERNMENT,
ENTER PARLIAMENT EVEN IF THEY
DIDN'T WIN LARGE SHARES OF THE
POPULATION.
AND SO YOU -- EVEN IF YOU GET 5%
FRINGE SUPPORT, YOU HAVE
REPRESENTATION.
AND SO IN MANY WAYS WE'RE IN
SORT OF A POLITICAL VOLLEY
BETWEEN THE TRANSATLANTIC SPACE.
>> SO THEN WHAT DOES THE UKRAINE
REFUGEE CRISIS TELL US ABOUT HOW
TO BREAK THE GRIDLOCK OVER
IMMIGRATION POLICY HERE AT HOME.
DO YOU SEE THE UNITED STATES
DOING MORE THAN CHANGING ASIGHE
A ASYLUM POLICY?
>> IT IS A GREAT START SO FAR, I
THINK, BECAUSE WE NEED TO REFORM
THESE POLICIES AND I THINK IT IS
IMPORTANT THAT OUR COUNTRY
REMAIN A REFUGE FOR PEOPLE WHO
ARE FLEEING AUTOCRACY AND
TYRANNY ABROAD AS WE ALWAYS HAVE
AS A COUNTRY FOR THE LAST
CENTURY.
HOWEVER, I THINK WHAT THIS --
THESE POLITICS ARE SHOWING US IS
SOMETHING REALLY INTERESTING.
BECAUSE ONE OF THE HARDEST
ATTITUDES TO MOVE IN THE UNITED
STATES ARE ATTITUDES ABOUT
IMMIGRATION.
SO JUST LAST SUMMER, 15%, JUST
15% OF AMERICANS BELIEVED THAT
WE SHOULD BE INCREASING THE
NUMBER OF REFUGEES IN THIS
COUNTRY.
WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN DECIDED TO
INCREASE THE NUMBER OF REFUGEES
THEREAFTER, ONLY 37% OF
AMERICANS SAID THEY AGREED WITH
THAT NEW POLICY.
AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S LOW
NUMBERS.
HOWEVER, WHEN THE AFGHAN AIRLIFT
TOOK PLACE LAST AUTUMN, AND THEN
WHEN UKRAINIAN REFUGEES BEGAN TO
FLEE EASTERN EUROPE, THIS
SPRING, WHAT WE BEGAN TO SEE WAS
OVERWHELMING SUPPORT FOR
REFUGEES, TWO-THIRDS OF
AMERICANS SUPPORT WELCOMING
UKRAINIANS.
THREE-QUARTERS OF AMERICANS
SUPPORTED WELCOMING AFGHANS WHO
SUPPORTED U.S. DIPLOMATIC AND
MILITARY PERSONNEL IN
AFGHANISTAN.
THESE ARE INCREDIBLY HIGH
NUMBERS.
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE HERE?
WELL, I THINK IT IS VERY CLEAR,
AMERICANS ARE STARTING TO
RECOGNIZE THAT WELCOMING
REFUGEES INTO THIS COUNTRY IS
ACTUALLY IN OUR NATIONAL
INTEREST.
AND THESE REFUGEES ARE
DEMONSTRATING THAT IN THEIR
OPPOSITION TO AUTOCRACY AND
PUTIN'S TYRANNY AND INVASION AND
IN THEIR OPPOSITION TO THE
TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN.
AND I THINK THAT THIS IS A
LESSON FOR ALL OF US IN THE
IMMIGRATION SPACE WHO HAVE
PREVIOUSLY BEEN TRYING TO
PERSUADE PEOPLE ABOUT THE
HUMANITARIAN CASE THAT
IMMIGRANTS AND THAT REFUGEES
POSE.
AND, OF COURSE, THESE ARE REAL
HUMANITARIAN CASES.
AND PEOPLE ARE VERY VULNERABLE.
AND THE ECONOMIC CONTRIBUTIONS
THAT THEY MAKE AND THEY MAKE
REAL ECONOMIC CONTRIBUTIONS, BUT
THE CORE IS THEIR -- THE WAY
THEY SUPPORT THE AMERICAN
NATIONAL INTERESTS.
>> JUSTIN, ON A FINAL NOTE, YOUR
FATHER WAS AN INSPIRATION FOR
YOUR WORK AND HE PASSED AWAY ON
FRIDAY.
MY CONDOLENCES, OUR CONDOLENCES.
TELL US ABOUT HIM.
>> THAT'S REALLY KIND OF YOU.
YOU KNOW, IN SO MANY WAYS MY
FATHER CONNECTS TO TODAY'S NEWS
RIGHT NOW.
MY FATHER WAS A REFUGEE FROM
EASTERN EUROPE.
AND, YOU KNOW, HE CAME TO THIS
COUNTRY WITH BASICALLY NOTHING.
A SORT OF CLASSIC AMERICAN
STORY, ARRIVING BY BOAT ON ELLIS
ISLAND AND HE LEANED ON OUR
AMERING TOAMER
TOK
AMERING TO AMERITOCRACY.
HE WAS AN INSPIRATION TO ME AND
HONESTLY INSPIRED ALL THE WORK
THAT I DO.
THANK YOU FOR MENTIONING HIM.
>> OF COURSE.
AND THANK YOU, JUSTIN, AS
ALWAYS, FOR COMING TO THE SHOW.