That's why a dragon hoards gold,
it's like,
what's up with that?
Well, it'll eat you.
And it will.
But, it has gold
well, so what do you do about that?
'cause it's paradoxical demands
Well what you want to do is face the dragon and get the damn gold, that's what you want to do
Well...
You have to be a paradoxical being even to do that, so you know in The Hobbit
for example when, what's his name.. Frodo right? or it's not, it's Bilbo in The Hobbit.
You know he's kind of this little underdeveloped...
Overprotected, Shire-dweller, and he's called on a great adventure,
to go and find the dragon
and, he has to become a thief
in order to manage it.
Well, that's pretty weird, you know, it's like well it's because
as a good citizen he's just not enough to conquer a dragon.
He has to also become a bad citizen in some sense,
he has to incorporate a part of himself that is monstrous
let's say, and develop that and hone it
and that's to say that, well if you're harmless you're not virtuous
you're just harmless, you're like a rabbit
a rabbit isn't virtuous, it just can't do anything except get eaten, it's not virtuous.
If you're a monster, and you don't act monstrously,
then you're virtuous
but you also have to be a monster, well you see this all the time Harry Potter is like that too
it's like he's flaud, he's hurt, he's got evil in him he can talk to snakes man.
He breaks rules all the time,
all the time, he's not obedient at all
but you know, he has a good reason for breaking the rules,
and if he couldn't break the rules
him and his little clique of rule breaking, you know, trouble makers
if they didn't break the rules
they wouldn't attain the highest goal.
So it's very peculiar, but it's very, very, very common mythological notion, you know the hero has to be...
The hero has to be a monster
but a controlled monster, Batman is like that, and you know it's everywhere
it's the t- story you always hear
(student) Is this where morals become ethics?
(Peterson) Meaning? You have to be more precise
(student) I feel like - cause everyone's moral, but
In order to become ethics, you have to refine the morals
'cause you have to kind of go into-
(Peterson) Well, that's a good question, you know, because
one question is;
you know, you're kind of implicitly moral in so far as you're socialised
but that's sort of procedural, it's just built into you, this is different, this is also becoming conscious of it
and expanding out your personality into dimensions that it wouldn't normally occupy,
so this happens to people all the time. So for example; lot's of my clients, my clinical clients are too agreeable
and, they're generally women because women are more agreeable than men,
but not always, 'cause i've had agreeable men as clients aswell
and what happens is, they're resentful and they don't know how to stand up for themselves
it's because they're very compassionate by nature, and so
if you're entering into a negotiation with them they'll let you win.
Well that's not so good, because you know, you need to win too.
Especially if you're in an organization of adults
where there's a struggle, right.
When you have kids you can let them win,
especially infants, you have to let them win, and that's partly why compassion is so necessary.
But as a basis for negotiation between adults it's like, sorry, it's insufficient you have to
you have to be a bit of a monster so that you can say No
and so alot of what you do in psychotherapy
is treat people's anxiety, and depression, that's a huge chunk of it.
Help them straighten out the way they think that's a huge chunk of it, but another chunk of it is;
Well let's toughen you up, you know, let's put you in a situation where you can bargain, let's teach you how to assert yourself
and stand up for yourself, and that's assertiveness training and that's a huge chunk of psychotherapy
and you need to learn it, it's like, because
part of how you regulate your interactions with other people is to negotiate
and you can not negotiate unless you can say no, you can't do it.
And it causes conflict to say no, and if you don't like conflict, which is basically the definition of being agreeable
then you can't tolerate the conflict
and so then you can't negotiate on your own behalf
and so then you keep losing
and you're bullied, and, you know
it's not good, then you get resentful
and it's really not good.
So you have to, develop your inner monster a little bit.
And, and then that makes you a better person not a worse person, it's weird,
it's weird, but that's just how it is.