Joe Rogan is a media phenomenon.
In 2019, his podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience,
was reportedly downloaded 190m times in a month.
He has over 11m YouTube subscribers.
And in 2020 Joe Rogan’s podcast was signed in an exclusive deal by Spotify for $100m.
The format is simple. A vast array of guests talk with him about a vast array of subjects.
Sometimes for hours. And Joe Rogan and his guests can also sometimes cause controversy.
In December, one guest, the virologist Dr Robert Malone,
made a number of misleading claims about vaccines during the podcast.
Which prompted this reaction:
Having people on there, giving opinions about the vaccines
that are not based on science is just not...
it's counter to public health right now and it's just not the right thing to do.
Dr Wallace was one of 270 healthcare professionals
who wrote an open letter to Spotify
urging it to act on misinformation in Joe Rogan’s podcast.
But it was the intervention of one of rock music’s original rebels
that made this story go global.
Neil Young threatened to pull his music from Spotify saying:
'They can have Rogan or Young. Not both.'
Well Spotify chose Rogan. And Young’s music has been removed at his request.
A few days later, another Canadian legend, Joni Mitchell followed suit.
And Joe Rogan has responded to the entire furore with a video on Instagram.
So my pledge to you is that I will do my best
to try to balance out these more controversial
viewpoints with other people’s perspectives
so we can maybe find a better point of view.
Spotify also responded. It released a statement saying the company is
working to add a content advisory to any podcast episode
that includes a discussion about Covid-19.
So Rogan stays. But with a warning.
And we can’t understand that decision without understanding the finances behind this.
Really the bottom line for Spotify is that
if you play a Joni Mitchell or Neil Young song,
70% of the money that that generates has to go to the artists and their record labels
and their publishers,
when one person plays the Joe Rogan podcast, Spotify keeps all of that money
and that will very much be behind the business decision here.
Exclusive podcasts are lucrative, they draw in subscribers and advertisers.
But Spotify has taken a hit with this Joe Rogan controversy.
Shares slumped, before recovering slightly,
after the company projected lower profit margins.
And the head of Spotify has addressed what's happened in a call to investors.
We're trying to balance creative expression with the safety of our users.
It is a balance. But if you shift from music streaming to content creation
that comes with new responsibilities.
Spotify now find themselves in a similar position to the big social media platforms
have done in recent years, where they are constantly trying to deny that they should
have any responsibility because they don't want to be regulated like a publisher.
Spotify's Daniel Ek has made his position on content clear, writing:
'It's important to me that we don't take on
the position of being content censor.'
But every content company takes positions on what it will and won’t publish.
That’s not censorship, that’s taking an editorial position.
Some, though, argue you need to listen to Joe Rogan to understand what's happening here.
Jemima Kelly writing in the Financial Times this week said
if Joe Rogan’s critics listened to his podcast:
'they would know that the presenter is a genuinely open-minded host who seeks out
all sorts of opinions rather than blindly following those of a particular tribe'.
For his part Joe Rogan says he explores ideas that are controversial
but can later become mainstream,
like the Wuhan lab leak theory on Covid-19.
And Batya Ungar-Sargon from Newsweek argues he’s meeting a need.
Joe Rogan is producing content for people
who want to see their own scepticism
reflected in what he's saying.
They're not going to him for medical advice.
They're going to him to hear
how other people think.
They are. But on occasion they will also hear, sometimes unchecked, opinions
that are not rooted in available evidence. And for some that’s a problem.
The notion that he has such a large audience
being constantly confused,
fed this information,
is just too much.
It is harmful to our ability to,
if not end, at least diminish the impacts
of this pandemic as soon as possible.
Both Spotify and Joe Rogan know that he and his guests are what make the show.
The podcast is different. And that difference is hugely popular.
But just as Joe Rogan has the right to talk to who he wants
so musicians and scientists have the right to urge Spotify
not to give a platform to Covid advice that isn't rooted in available evidence.