( APPLAUSE )
>> Stephen: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY NEXT GUEST IS A
PEABODY AWARD-WINNING JOURNALIST WHO HAS SPENT DECADES COVERING
THE SUPREME COURT AND LEGAL AFFAIRS FOR NATIONAL PUBLIC
RADIO. HER NEW BOOK IS "DINNERS WITH
PLEASE WELCOME, NINA RUTH." TOTENBERG!
♪ ♪ ♪
RIGHT HERE. THIS IS WATER IF YOU WANT IT.
>> IS IT WATER OR RUM? >
>> Stephen: IT'S WATER. WE CAN GET YOU ANYTHING YOU
WANT. WE HAVE A BAR BACK HERE.
SO LOVELY TO HAVE YOU ON. YOU ARE A NATIONAL TREASURE OF
AMERICA'S RADIO SOUND-SCAPE. >> THANK YOU.
>> Stephen: OVER AT NPR. BUT NOW-- I CAN'T BELIEVE--
( APPLAUSE )
FIRST BOOK. >> AND MY LAST.
>> Stephen: YOUR FIRST BOOK. IT'S CALLED "DINNERS WITH RUTH."
IT'S AVAILABLE NOW. AND IT IS ABOUT YOUR
RELATIONSHIP OVER THE LAST 50 YEARS WITH RUTH BADER GINSBURG.
>> IT'S ALSO--
>> AND HAS A LONGER TITLE. IT SAYS "A MEMOIR ON THE POWER
AND IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT RUTH OF FRIENDSHIPS." AND
ME. IT'S ABOUT THE WOMEN OF MY
GENERATION WHO CAME UP WHEN WE WEREN'T TRYING TO BREAK A GLASS
CEILING. WE WERE JUST TRYING TO GET A
FOOT IN THE DOOR. AND--
( APPLAUSE )
>> AND SO, IT'S ABOUT MY FRIENDS, OTHER FRIENDS BESIDES
RUTH, MALE AND FEMALE. AND MY LATE HUSBAND AND MY NOW
AND FOREVER HUSBAND, ONE HOPES. AND SO IT'S ABOUT A LIFE OF
FRIENDSHIPS. ESPECIALLY THE MOST FAMOUS OF
THEM IS RUTH BADER GINSBURG.
ALL-- HOW DID YOU ALL FIRST BECOME FRIENDS?
>> I WAS BRAND NEW ASSIGNED TO COVER THE COURT.
AND I PICKED UP THIS BRIEF. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT.
IT TURNED OUT TO BE-- IT WAS HER FIRST BRIEF IN THE SUPREME
COURT. >> Stephen: SO SHE'S NOT A
JUSTICE AT THIS POINT. >> NO, SHE WAS A PROFESSOR AT
RUTGERS LAW SCHOOL. AND SHE HAD WRITTEN THIS BRIEF
THAT ARGUED THAT WOMEN ARE COVERED BY THE 14th
AMENDMENT GUARANTEED TO EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW.
AND LO AND BEHOLD, FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER, THE SUPREME COURT
BOUGHT IT. BUT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT.
SO I CALLED HER UP AND I GOT AN HOUR-LONG LECTURE.
GOOSE WHOSE LIVER WAS NOW I ENDED UP SORT OF LIKE A READY FOR
FOIS GRAS. >> Stephen: SHE JAMMED THIS
DOWN YOUR THROAT? >> RIGHT.
>> Stephen: YOU HAD TO BALANCE BEING THE FRIEND OF A JUSTICE
WITH COVERING THE SUPREME COURT. HOW DELICATE OF A BALANCE WAS
AND DID YOU ALWAYS GET IT THAT? RIGHT?
>> WE GOT IT RIGHT ALL EXCEPT ONCE WHEN SHE DIDN'T WANT ME TO
ASK HER ABOUT WHAT THE-- THE MEAN THING SHE SAID ABOUT TRUMP.
AND I SAID, "I'M SORRY, RUTH, BUT I HAVE TO ASK YOU.
THAT'S MY JOB." >> Stephen: SURE.
>> AND SHE WAS VERY COGNIZANT OF THAT, TO THE POINT THAT MY
HUSBAND, WHO IS A SURGEON, WAS A MEDICAL CONFIDANT FOR HER.
GOING ON WHEN SHE WAS GETTING AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS SICKER.
AND AT ONE POINT, SHE CALLED ME FROM THE I.C.U., AFTER SHE HAD
BEEN OPERATED ON FOR LUNG CANCER.
HIT. AND SHE CALLS-- WE'RE IN AND I'M WAITING TO DO A TV THE
RESTAURANT-- AND SHE SAYS, "NINA, IT'S RUTH.
BETTER CONSOMME THAN I HAVE I'M SITTING HERE HAVING A ANY RIGHT
TO EXPECT IN A HOSPITAL." P.S., SHE HAD A CHEST TUBE IN.
AND SHE SAID, "AND I'M CALLING BECAUSE I WANTED YOU TO KNOW WHY
I HAD FORBIDDEN DAVID TO TELEYOU WHAT WAS GOING ON.
WANT YOU TO BE TRAPPED BETWEEN AND IT WAS BECAUSE I DIDN'T YOUR
OBLIGATIONS AS A JOURNALIST AND YOUR FRIENDSHIP FOR ME.
AND THAT IS THE WAY WE ALWAYS OPERATED.
WE EACH KNEW THAT WE HAD A DIFFERENT ROLE.
MEMBER OF CONGRESS, AND SHE AND BECAUSE SHE WASN'T A WASN'T--
HOUSE, AND SHE WASN'T RUNNING DIDN'T WORK AT THE WHITE FOR
OFFICE, THE RULES WERE FAIRLY CLEAR.
>> Stephen: WELL, YOU'VE SAID THAT BEING "A WITNESS TO HISTORY
IS AN ELEGANT WAY OF SAYING THAT I AM A GOSSIP."
>> THAT'S TRUE.
>> tephen: SO LET'S DISH.
ROBERTS AND ELENA KAGAN HAVE PAST WEEK, CHIEF JUSTICE EXPRESSED
OPPOSITE VIEWS ON HOW DECISIONS AFFECT THE LEGITIMACY OF THE
SUPREME COURT. SO WHERE DO YOU COME IN?
DO YOU THINK THE COURT HAS AN INNATE LEGITIMACY THAT SHOULD BE
RESPECTED OR DO THEY HAVE TO EARN IT THROUGH THE VALUE OF
>> WELL, I THINK THEY DO HAVE THEIR DECISIONS? TO
EARN IT. AND THEY HAVE EARNED IT.
AND WE'RE AT A-- YOU KNOW, WE'RE AT A VERY IMPORTANT TIPPING
POINT FOR THE COURT. >> Stephen: WHAT DO YOU MAKE
OF THE PEOPLE WHO CALL INTO QUESTION THE COURT'S LEGITIMACY
BECAUSE IT'S SO DIVORCE FROM AT THIS POINT? THE
WILL OF THE PEOPLE, GIVEN HOW THE COURT WAS CONSTRUCTED OVER
THE LAST DECADE. >> WE COULD HAVE A LONG
CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT THE ROLE OF THE COURT IS.
IT'S TO INTERPRET THE CONSTITUTION.
MORE CONSERVATIVE THAN ANY BUT THIS IS A COURT THAT'S COURT I
THINK IN PROBABLY 90 YEARS. AND IT'S ALSO WHAT ONE SCHOLAR
CALLED "THE YOLO" COURT-- YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE.
AND SOME OF THESE FOLKS-- SOME OF THESE FOLKS ACT AS IF THEY'RE
GOING TO BE GONE TOMORROW BECAUSE THEY'RE GRABBING CASES
LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW. >> Stephen: HOW DOES ROBERTS--
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, HE SEEMS PUBLICLY QUITE DETERMINED TO
KEEP THE IDEA THAT THE COURT IS AN APOLITICAL INSTITUTION.
AND THAT THERE IS AMITY IN THE COURT.
BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, WHAT DO YOU HEAR AS SOMEBODY WHO REPORTS ON
>> I THINK AFTER THE LEAK IN THE COURT? THE
ABORTION CASE, THE COURT IS VE VERY-- NOT A HAPPY PLACE.
IT'S ALWAYS, TO ONE EXTENT OR ANOTHER, A SOMEWHAT
DISFUNCTIONAL FAMILY. BUT THEY HAVE TO LIVE TOGETHER
PROFESSIONAL LIVES AND THEY FOR THE REST OF THEIR MAKE
I'M NOT SURE THEY'RE MAKING THE BEST OF IT. THE
BEST OF IT AT THE MOMENT. >> Stephen: THERE WAS A TIME
WHEN EVEN PEOPLE WHO HAD VASTLY DIFFERENT JUDICIAL VIEWS GOT
ALONG VERY WELL. HERE'S ANTONIN SCALIA AND RUTH
BADER GINSBURG ON A TRIP TOGETHER IN INDIA.
DO YOU THINK-- WHAT WAS THEIR FRIENDSHIP LIKE?
>> THEY WERE VERY CLOSE AND RESPECTFUL FRIENDS, EVEN THOUGH
THEY DISAGREED NOT ALL THE TIME, BUT IN SOME OF THE BIGGEST
AND ANYBODY-- I MEAN, I LOVED ISSUES THEY DISAGREED. IT
NINO SCALIA, AS HE WAS KNOWN. HE WAS MY FRIEND, TOO.
IN THAT PICTURE-- WHERE IS THE PICTURE.
>> Stephen: I'LL GET IT FOR YOU.
>> HE WAS IN FRONT OF HER. I ONCE INTERVIEWED THEM-- IT WAS
MY FAVORITE INTERVIEW I EVER DID.
I DID IT ON STAGE OF THE TWO OF THEM FOR ABOUT AN HOUR AND A
HALF. AND I ASKED THEM ABOUT THAT
PICTURE. AND HE SAID HE WAS IN FRONT OF
AND SHE SAID THAT SHE THOUGHT HER BECAUSE OF SENIORITY. IT
HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE DISTRIBUTION OF WEIGHT.
>> Stephen: "DINNERS WITH
IS AVAILABLE NOW. NINA TOTENBERG, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.