WINFREY: Eleven men from across the country.
They were all strangers with one thing in common:
They are all fathers, and for the first time,
they revealed their private and emotionally
honest fears and frustrations about fatherhood.
LEONARD: I think most of the time,
I'm--I'm the doormat who takes the--the emotional data dump from all three
members of the family, and I don't get a chance
to tell them about what's been going on my end.
If I try to bring up a subject about me fathering,
it--it's going to snowball to a laundry list of things
that I either run short of, shortcomings, or things I need to improve upon.
Unidentified Panelist: We've all been told that we're not home enough
or we need to be home more and make these kids activities
and things like that, so beating it into our heads every day when
we come home from work isn't helping.
LEONARD: We agonize in our own silence. Men have great fears, but we bury it.
I think society needs to understand that we struggle on a day-to-day
basis to just make it one more day just as much as the wives.
Unidentified Panelist: I worry every day that they're going to grow up
and think that I spent time away from them because I wanted to get away
and not because I was trying to better the family and provide.
HANK: I get ridiculed quite a bit for not spending
good quality time with our children.
RICHARD: It's pretty demoralizing, you know. It--it--it's tough to hear that.
KEVIN: I think sometimes I feel that I failed as a father when it's late
at night and I'm reviewing my day.
But I only got to spend maybe a half an hour with my kids.
Unidentified Panelist: Being a divorced father, you go through an enormous
amount of guilt, guilt that you broke the family up,
guilt that if your children don't succeed, it's your fault, and you struggle with that.
Unidentified Panelist: I think you--we've also all heard motherhood
is the toughest job in the world. I think parenting is the toughest job
in the world, be it male or female.
Unidentified Panelist: I think society would--would be surprised to find
out that we do think about, you know, being failures as fathers.
LEONARD: We have a great fear of not only failure,
but the fact of disappointment with ourselves and seeking our own dreams.
We're always seeking the dreams of our children or satisfying our wives.
But I think society underestimates that a guy has a dream for himself
and a dream to take his family from point A to point B, and he's scared
to death that he's not going to make it. So those things mean a lot.
WINFREY: Leonard, I--I was so moved by that. You know why?
Because I think when we're all growing up--you all remember this--you
remember growing up, right? OK.
Growing up and how you look at your parents.
I mean, you never think of your parents as having a dream of their own
or feelings of their own or aspirations for themselves.
You know, your dad is just your dad, there to--to take care of you.
And so I think that that gets lost on a lot of us because we never
think--you--you know, you're playing this role...
LEONARD: Yeah.
WINFREY: ...as a husband and a father.
And no one thinks about you as a person and your personal dreams
and also the--the--un--until--until listening to some of you guys,
I never thought, oh, I guess it would be terrifying to carry
the whole burden of the family.
LEONARD: Well, it's a culmination of a number of things, like besides the job,
besides what's going on at home, if you have a--in our case,
a disabled child or challenges with a high school student
and managing all those things and the fear factor of what's going
on in the economy and then you're thinking,
`How am I going to progress this family from point A to point B to fulfill
our dreams and--and our vision?' and sometimes you feel like
you're just caught up in the day-to-day and you lose sight of it,
and you're like, is this going to be unfulfilling?
WINFREY: Is that--that came up a lot.
Is that something that you think about a lot?
I know that many of you had never articulated these thoughts before,
but do you think about, Richard, progressing the famil--moving
the family forward, how you're going to take care of the family?
RICHARD: Yeah, I think about it every day.
And I think the thing that was amazing when we sat together to find out,
you know, sometimes you feel like it's just you that thinks about that.
WINFREY: Right.
RICHARD: But to be in a room with 10 other men that have the same goals
and aspirations, that was pretty amazing.
WINFREY: And worries.
RICHARD: And worries.
WINFREY: And worries.
RICHARD: Right.
WINFREY: Yes, Kevin?
KEVIN: Every dad has a dream, and a lot of ti...
WINFREY: Every dad has a dream.
KEVIN: Every dad has a dream.
And a lot of times, you can't pursue the dream as energetically
as you would want to, because you have to...
WINFREY: Did you--would you all agree with that? Every dad has a dream?
RICHARD: Sure do.
WINFREY: I thought that was very interesting. I didn't know dads had a dream.
KEVIN: Yeah. And...
WINFREY: I thought dads was just working all the time. Every dad has a dream.
KEVIN: Well--but you have to balance pursuit of the dream
with stability of the family. So some of my single friends can just go full bore
pursue their dreams, but we have to make sure that every lily pad
we step on is a firm one, you know, can...
WINFREY: And what would you say your dream is?
KEVIN: My dream is to allow people of color the economic march
that the civil rights era started.
We have rights, but we need economic rights now. And I think that...
WINFREY: And what is your dream for your family?
KEVIN: My dream for my family is to have a stable existence every day,
happy, fulfilled, secure, and I can do that, and I do do that.
You know, it's--I have made--with 11 years of work with my wife,
we have made concessions, so I work a three-day workweek now
so that I can be home on Mondays and Fridays and the weekends
because my Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday are like 12-hour days.
WINFREY: OK.
KEVIN: So at the end of those days, I don't really see my family,
but I've shortened it so that the time that I can be with them is really with them.
WINFREY: OK. Every dad has a dream.
Next, husbands share more of their private thoughts,
what they say their wives need to know.
Unidentified Panelist: It's a bit intimidating when you first start talking
about fatherhood and parenting among strangers.
But then as the conversation goes on, I find it--it becomes therapeutic.
Unidentified Panelist: It really helped to make me feel that there's not
something wrong with me.
Unidentified Panelist: It's like a big weight lifted off you,
because you want to share that with someone.
HANK: I feel like it's just been a relief to be able to come here
and--and--and hear that I'm not the only one.
LEONARD: It's pretty evident that regardless of--of race, religion or culture,
we're all struggling to--to make it happen.
Unidentified Panelist: We all want to be good dads, and even though,
you know, we really hadn't met before today,
I feel like we already know each other,
because we've all been living the same lives.
Unidentified Panelist: Right.
Unidentified Panelist: Yeah.
Unidentified Panelist: It's made me feel very empowered.
Nothing like this has ever been done for us.
I think thi--this is kind of groundbreaking.
WINFREY: Oh, I think this is groundbreaking.
See, what Kevin said earlier is every dad has a dream.
When your husband comes home tonight,
ask him what's his dream for the family.
That's a good way to get the conversation started.
Unidentified Panelist: Yeah.
WINFREY: That's how these fathers say they feel about opening
up for the first time about their personal struggles as dads.
When we asked them what they want their wives to know, here's what they said.
Unidentified Panelist: Oh, man.
RICHARD: I think it'd be important for women to understand
that when we say our day has been difficult, you know,
we're not devaluing their day in any way.
We're saying that we've had a difficult day as well.
We're not in any way saying or suggesting that their work isn't hard.
Unidentified Panelist: It's really, really frustrating if you feel that your wife
is constantly on your case; every single thing you do,
she's like that's not the way to do it.
KEVIN: Sometimes I wonder if women were under the same scrutiny
that they put men under, how would they respond?
Do we get to say to our wives,
`You know, I don't think that's the appropriate way to be a mother.
My mother didn't do that'? You know, what happens when we say that?
Ooh, can't do that.
But everyone feels entitled to talk to dads about how they're fathering.
Unidentified Panelist: They always got to put their 2 cents in and--and to say,
hey, let us be fathers and do it--do it the best way we know how.
KEVIN: I mean, fathers are not mothers. We do things differently.
Give us the 2 cents. Just don't throw the pennies at us.
Unidentified Panelist: Right.
HANK: Fatherhood, parenthood, whatever, is a work in progress.
I'm learning every day something new about being a dad.
Give us that time to learn about ourselves and to learn about our children.
RICHARD: You know, none of us have a manual.
We all want to be the best fathers that we can,
and sometimes we just are honest. We just don't know what to do.
Unidentified Panelist: If I don't know and I think I should know, yeah,
it can be embarrassing, and I find myself often doing things
to cover up the fact that I don't know.
RICHARD: We're driven by nature. We're solutions-oriented.
And so for us to not have--to not be the answer man is very humbling
and very difficult for us. It's coupled by the fact if you're told that
you're not adding up, you're not doing your end
and you know you don't know, it makes it even harder.
Unidentified Panelist: I'm often criticized for being overly critical,
but sometimes I'm being critical because I don't know.
Often, I--I just kind of quit. I clam up, shut down,
and sometimes feel like a failure.
WINFREY: That was very interesting. Was that you? Yeah.
So sometimes you're being critical because you really don't know.
And how does that work for you?
Unidentified Panelist: Well, there's--there's no manual for this.
I've searched all over bookstores and everywhere.
There's no manual on being a father.
Experience is the best teacher, and--and we take suggestions from
our wives, how we grew up as--as--from--from our parents,
how they parented us.
WINFREY: Yeah. I think that's a bi--excellent point that you're making.
I think there's--there's no manual for parenting.
There's no specific way of doing it, you know, and it--I think,
as you were saying, that somebody said here,
that it's the most important job in the world,
and it amazes me that for something that is so critical,
there's no instruction about it.
Everybody's just kind of, you do it the way you want to do it, so...
Unidentified Panelist: When we brought our child home,
you know, our--our baby, I didn't know how to hold a baby.
I--we--we figured it out, and now, you know...
WINFREY: Without too much damage.
Unidentified Panelist: Trial and error.
WINFREY: Yeah.
Unidentified Panelist: But--but, unfortunately, I've probably forgotten.
If I--if I saw a one-day-old baby sitting there, I--I'd pick it up
and be very gentle, very fragile with it, because that experience,
I learned from it and now I'm--I'm on to other things.
WINFREY: Interesting point you made.
So if there is no manual, what are you basing you--your father image on,
your parenting skills on? How are you doing it?
Unidentified Panelist: Well, based it on, you know,
experiences of other fathers that we've talked to in the past.
You know, I think all of our main goal is to raise children that
are going to be a functioning member of society,
and so, you know, the things that I've learned are from other--you know,
my parents, how they raised me,
from other fathers that I know and things like that.
WINFREY: Do you feel that you're measured specifically
by what you can provide for your family, that you are and all men are?
Unidentified Panelist: Absolutely. Yeah. I...
WINFREY: That that's the measuring stick.
Unidentified Panelist: Yeah. I----yeah.
If you're raising a successful family,
then you're a success--you're a successful father.
WINFREY: Successful in terms of material things?
Unidentified Panelist: That. That's--that's, you know,
how far--or families are judged as material things a lot of times.
It doesn't seem fair, but that's the truth.
WINFREY: Well, Kevin says his wife's criticism about your job
as a dad contributes to the distance, correct?
KEVIN: It does. And it's really difficult, because you feel like
there are all these demands on you from your work, to be there,
to be a contributing person, you know, to be a--a full partner.
But then your partner is also a partner in your life,
and there's all these demands there. So it's like walking a tightrope.
You don't know which one to give more credence to.
WINFREY: And what kind of criticism are we talking about,
so that women will know that--because I think a lot of women,
mothers criticize, they don't even know they're criticizing.
It's just part of the regular routine. Like somebody said,
`You don't do that. Let me do it. I can do it better,' or
`You did it, and it wasn't good enough or it wasn't right or whatever.'
What are you talking about specifically?
Unidentified Panelist: ...a lot of women, they want us to do it the way...
WINFREY: They want to do it.
Unidentified Panelist: ...you know, they...
Unidentified Panelist: ...(Unintelligible).
Unidentified Panelist: Yeah, they want to do it,
and the thing they have to realize is that...
WINFREY: Would that be you? That would be you. That would be you, OK. Yeah.
Unidentified Panelist: And the thing they have to realize
is that men are created differently.
WINFREY: They're different.
Unidentified Panelist: We think differently.
WINFREY: Yeah.
Unidentified Panelist: And if a man wants to do a--a project a certain way,
let them do it the way they know and feel comfortable doing that project...
WINFREY: Doing it.
Unidentified Panelist: ...instead of telling them,
`This is the way I want you to do it.'
WINFREY: Yeah.
Unidentified Panelist: And it makes--it--it...
WINFREY: And--and what Kevin--like folding towels.
Yeah, right. Yeah, he doesn't do it right.
Unidentified Woman #6: ...right.
WINFREY: See, that's exactly what they're saying.
Do you want the towel folded or do you want it folded the way you want it folded?
Unidentified Panelist: But he does do it.
Unidentified Woman #6: I want it folded so it fits in the closet neatly.
KEVIN: Well...
RICHARD: And--and--and...
KEVIN: But as a dad, I'm a towel folder--I'm a neat towel folder.
Unidentified Panelist: Can it fit in other ways?
WINFREY: Can it--can it fit in--what--what?
Unidentified Panelist: ...fit in sideways, neatly.
Unidentified Panelist: Yeah.
WINFREY: Can it fit other ways? Yeah. OK.
KEVIN: In a personal...
Mr. ROLAND C. WARREN: I--I think one of the--one of the key focus--focuses
for--for women, the things that they need to understand
is it's important to focus on the what and not the how.
WINFREY: Yeah.
Mr. WARREN: I think that's where you run into a problem,
I mean--and pick your battles, because if there are multiple ways
to do it and he's doing it a different way, then let him do it a different way,
because you want to make sure that he's involved in his kids' life.
WINFREY: Right.
Mr. WARREN: That's true.
WINFREY: Yeah. But what about--let's talk about what Kevin had said earlier.
Does the criticism create the--create distance?
Do you feel that when you're being criticized all the time or nagged,
for lack of a better word, does that then cause you to say,
`OK, then, you know what? I'll just let you do it'?
KEVIN: There's a difference between critique and criticism.
WINFREY: Yeah.
KEVIN: Because if they give you their observations
and it's in a way that, you know,
`This is how I think' and you can then also, as the father, say,
`Well, you know, this is how I think,' and it's a conversation...
WINFREY: Yeah. Yeah.
KEVIN: ...it's much different than, you know, hitting you with,
`You don't do this, you don't do that.'
Unidentified Panelist: You g...
WINFREY: Yeah.
KEVIN: And my wife and I have worked that out.
WINFREY: Yeah.
KEVIN: We--we--we did.
Unidentified Panelist: The criticism does create a distance.
WINFREY: The criticism does create a distance.
Unidentified Panelist: It--it does.
Oftentimes, I find myself not wanting to communicate about certain things,
certain issues with regard to the child.
WINFREY: Yeah.
Unidentified Panelist: Because i--there's this ongoing argument
or disagreement about what should be done for the child,
how it should be no--done for the child; so therefore, sometimes
the conver--the communication gets broken down,
and you--you don't want to just argue about certain things.
WINFREY: Where's Hank? Hank?
HANK: Here.
WINFREY: Hank says that you wake up stressed sometimes
knowing you're going to disappoint your children in some way that day.
What does that mean?
HANK: Well, every time that I leave in the morning and I--I go to work,
I know that there's going to be times where if I promised my son
that I was going to be at his baseball game or if I promised my wife
that I was going to meet for the parent/teacher conference and I--I just
can't--sometimes I just can't be there, and then I--I just feel that,
you know, I didn't accomplish what I was set out to do that day.
WINFREY: Do you guys feel that often, like you're disappointing your kids?
Unidentified Panelist: Oh, sure
Unidentified Panelist: Absolutely.
WINFREY: Disappointing--yeah.
LEONARD: Always.
RICHARD: All the time.
WINFREY: All the time.
RICHARD: All the time, I feel like...
WINFREY: All the time.
Unidentified Panelist: But I think what needs to be understood
is that we feel that--I mean, we--we feel that disappointment in--in our
children, people need to realize that we are caring individuals and--and
that we do care about our children on a daily basis.
WINFREY: But, see, I think this is the thing.
I think this is a piece y'all got missing, really.
I've done these shows many years with men, women.
I think men i--the inability to communicate that is what makes women,
your spouses, other people feel that you're not feeling anything,
because you never say that.
Mr. WARREN: But, Oprah, it's not--it's--it's not an inability--I think
the--the--the issue here is it's not an inability...
WINFREY: No. But just hearing you-all say,
`I feel such compassion, I feel the love, I feel the love for you,
but I feel such compa'--just hearing you-all say what you're saying today,
but I've never heard gu--anybody say that.
Unidentified Panelist: But we want to act it out.
Unidentified Panelist: Right.
Unidentified Panelist: We don't necessarily want to talk about it all the time.
Unidentified Panelist: Men are--men are much more verbal--non-verbal.
WINFREY: Just--no.
Well, could you just say, you know,
`I feel badly that I missed the game. I feel really disappointed in myself.
I really wanted to be there and I'm really sorry'?
Bu--that would go a long way in--in helping relations.
RICHARD: But you know what? Wh--it--it--it won't end, though.
It won't end. It will be recorded...
WINFREY: But you--you don't know. You don't know. You didn't do it.
RICHARD: ...and repeated back to us...
WINFREY: You didn't--ho...
RICHARD: ...and said--over an o--
`You feel bad, but you have not yet changed your behavior'
would be what we would get right back.
Unidentified Panelist: Well...
RICHARD: So it's like how can you admit that...
WINFREY: I don't know. I don't know.
LEONARD: And validate for us and say,
`Well, that's great. You should feel that way.'
KEVIN: But...
LEONARD: `And you ought to feel that way.'
KEVIN: But...
LEONARD: `And, oh, by the way...'
WINFREY: But have you ever done it? Have you e...
KEVIN: And not--not that it comes--not that
it comes like this in my house, but that's usually...
LEONARD: Oh...
KEVIN: ...after about three minutes of...
LEONARD: There's a laundry list...
WINFREY: Of that. OK. No. But--but, OK...
KEVIN: So it's kind of hard to get to that point.
WINFREY: But what I was just saying, that the ability to communicate
that feeling, I mean, just like I know a lot of you-all who went through
the session all together felt like you were connected to other fathers
in a way that you wouldn't have felt. But--and I'm saying that same
connection can happen in your relationships if you were willing to
express some of what you were willing to express in that session.
KEVIN: Ri--and maybe...
Mr. WARREN: And the reason--and the reason why I think in your sessions
guys were willing to express this is because it was a safe environment.
WINFREY: Aha.
Mr. WARREN: That is--is key. That is key, so...
WINFREY: So you don't feel safe with your wife?
Mr. WARREN: Well, my wife is a lovely woman.
WINFREY: Yes. Of course.