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>> Hello, welcome back everybody
to theCUBE's coverage in New York City
of AWS Summit 2022.
I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE.
We had Dave Vellante, Lisa Martin here earlier.
I'm going to wrap it up here with James Forrester,
last interview of the day here in New York.
Wish we would have had another day.
It's a packed house, 10,000 people.
James Forrester's the VP Worldwide Technical Leader
for VMware's Cloud on AWS.
On AWS is a big distinction.
James, welcome to theCube.
Thanks for coming on.
>> Thank you so much, John.
It's great to be here.
>> So I think it's been like six years
since the announcement of VMware's Cloud on AWS,
which is a separate instance, separate hardware,
but it's changed the game for VMware.
You guys have done a lot of work,
successful traction with customers.
Clarified, I remember at that time,
it really clarified VMware's Cloud play.
Which then gave VMware more time to work on
what it's doing now, which is, you know,
using all their assets and their operations
with Tanzu, Monterey, Cloud Native, Cross Cloud.
What they call you guys call Cross Cloud,
I call Super Cloud, action, a lot of stuff happening.
So thanks for coming on.
Okay. So first question is,
what's the future look like for VMware's Cloud on AWS?
>> Super bright, super bright.
And there's a couple of great reasons for that.
I think firstly, what we're seeing is that
customers have now made enough progress
in their cloud journeys.
Many of them have chosen AWS and they're going full force.
We're going to help them go faster.
We're going to help them get there
and get native to those adjacent services much quicker
with more confidence and more resiliency.
So it's a super exciting time to be doing what we do.
>> You know, VMware has had a steady install base, okay.
I mean basically it's like almost ingrained
in the operations.
What do you guys see as that next level step up function?
Because you know, obviously Broadcom is buying VMware.
Obviously that utility will be in place, but there's more.
There's more there that customers can tap into.
This is the promise of the cross-cloud.
How do you talk about that when you got the AWS action?
How does that all integrate?
>> Yeah, absolutely.
And of course, because so many customers are going
to AWS on their own cloud journeys right now,
what we get to have the conversation about
is how they can get there more confidently.
And so for customers who are just starting out,
who are looking at their application portfolios,
who have a ton of skilled IT professionals
who they want to bring into that cloud journey,
they can use the skills they already have.
For those folks who are a little bit
further along but they may be finding
that refactoring their applications is more complex,
more difficult that they anticipated,
we give them a way of moving with confidence
and with much less risk
so they can do those cloud journeys
that they anticipated.
>> You know, James, I want to get your thoughts
on what the state of the current situation is,
vis-à-vis, your customers
and your customers' appetite for AWS services.
'Cause one of the promises of the original deal
was clarifying messaging but more importantly,
customers can get the VMware Cloud
and take advantage of the higher level services on AWS.
What's the update there?
What's the current state of the art?
What's some of the patterns that you're seeing
on the uptake of services and how they're working together?
>> Yeah, it's a great call out.
And honestly, one of the misconceptions
that I address right out of the gate is
that somehow going VMware Cloud takes you away
from those services.
It doesn't, it gets you closer to them.
Full, direct, native access to all
of those hundreds of great AWS services.
So what we often find is that customers
have their enterprise data,
inside data workloads in their data centers.
But what they want to do is get that up next
to the AWS services that can use it,
like Redshift and Athena and Glue.
They can move those workloads right adjacent
to those services to start using them right away.
So it's a great way to look at the platform.
>> So one of the observations that's
pretty well understood right now by most people,
I'd say 90%, if not more, not a hundred percent
'cause I've heard people like not get it,
but it's pretty clear that the operating model
for the the enterprise will be hybrid as a steady state.
I don't think there's any debate on that
unless you think there is.
>> Do you feel the same- >> No debate.
No debate.
>> Okay. Hybrid's a steady state.
What does that mean as clients start to think about
edge and their data centers.
'Cause now the private cloud is back in the game.
So I've heard people talk about private cloud, which we,
I think we coined the term with Dave, Wikibon years ago,
but it kind of went away
because that was not the public cloud.
So public cloud won, on premise didn't go away.
We saw Amazon with Outpost.
So now they're like, I can still have stuff
on prem and run it in a cloud operations.
So they're calling that private cloud, I think.
So you're starting to hear the same things.
What it means basically is that hybrid is winning.
It's the standard.
What does the hybrid environment look like
from a VMware perspective as you guys look
at that and have been building that out
'cause you have customers that are on premises.
>> Yeah.
>> Is it just to the cloud and back?
Is it, is there any changes?
Is there new connective tissue?
Is there a glue layer?
What's the operating model for VMware customers?
>> Well, customers wanted those same benefits
from public cloud agility, cost benefits, elasticity,
innovation, sovereignty, sustainability,
but they wanted to be able to do that everywhere.
They wanted it in their data centers.
They wanted it at the edge.
And as you've pointed out public cloud delivered that
for customers.
AWS first out there delivering that for customers.
Now with innovations like VMware Cloud
and AWS outpost, we're able to bring that back
into the data center.
We're able to bring those same benefits of public cloud
into the customers on-prem environment.
And you're right.
We see hybrid just rolling and rolling
and being able to offer our solution across all of it.
>> Yeah, we're big fans of VMware
because theCube's 12 years old,
we've been at every VMworld.
Now they're calling it VMware Explorer,
the events coming up.
So the folks watching, plug for VMware Explorer,
formerly VMworld, it's on the schedule.
Content catalog just came out last week.
It's looking pretty good.
So put a plug out there.
We'll be there with theCube, two sets.
So you know, if you're going to VMworld,
now Explorer go register, get up there.
It's in San Francisco, always a great event.
vSphere and vSAN, always great products.
But you got Carbon Black, you got Security.
So these things have all been working kind
of pistons for VMware.
Tanzu, I know Raghu and those guys are doing it.
Craig McLuckie and team, they're working on that.
You got Tanzu, you got Monterey.
That's the new cloud native thing.
How is that tracking vis-à-vis, the operating model
of the the core engine, vSphere, vSAN and others.
And then with the native services of Cloud.
So you got AWS Cloud with VMware Cloud,
vSphere, vSAN, Carbon Black, and Security.
And then you got the Tanzu over here.
How are those three things coming together?
>> Well, the services that customers know and love
first and foremost that they've been running
the mission critical workloads on, vSphere, vSAN, NSX.
What VMware cloud and AWS is,
is a packaging together of those services.
So customers don't have to configure it all themselves
and do the heavy lifting.
We manage and run it on their behalf.
What we are adding to that most recently with Tanzu
is now the ability to run containers
within the same environment.
'Cause customers tell us they've got parts
of their organization that are very much on vSphere VMs.
Parts of their organization are moving to containers.
We want be able to provide a single operating model,
a single layer, a single way of managing all of that.
No matter where it's deployed.
>> You know, remember back in the day,
when Raghu wasn't the CEO, Carl Eschenbach was there,
Sanjay Poonen was there.
Carl's now at Sequoia Capital, Raghu's a CEO.
Sanjay's kind of looking for a next gig.
I always said, why doesn't vSphere
and NSX become that abstraction layer
and commoditize the network so that white boxes
and Dell and HP could all play in that layer?
It just never happened yet.
Is that something you guys talk about at all?
Like, I mean in the, in the smokey room,
in the execs, is that happening?
What's the vision?
>> Well, we always work backwards-
from customers, right? (John laughing)
And what customers are telling us is they want us
to help them with that undifferentiated heavy lifting.
So who knows where that could take us, but right now
we're very focused on helping those customers move
with confidence to the cloud.
>> You didn't take the bait on that one.
I appreciate that.
(James laughing)
Okay. So let's get some perspective.
You're out with customers.
What are the big things that you're seeing right now
from your customers right now?
'Cause you look behind us here, 10,000 people at this event.
This is not a no-show.
This is not a throwaway event in, you know,
somewhere in the corner of the world.
This is New York City, only one summit.
This is bigger than Snowflake Summit and that was packed.
So from an event standpoint,
this is pretty a big game statement here for AWS.
These companies are not experiencing headwinds,
they're changing.
So what are your customers telling you
around what they're looking at
for the cloud native architecture?
I mean obviously the digital transformation
is continuing, obviously clouds here.
And again, we were saying earlier, this is the first time
in history that the cloud hyperscalers have been
in market during a so-called downturn.
So there's no other data.
2008, I wouldn't call 'em up and running.
They were building, but AWS, Azure, others,
these cloud players they're in market.
And so you're starting to see kind of some data
coming out saying, Hey, this thing's still working,
the engine of innovation is cranking out
and it's not slowing down the digital transformation.
It might change the capital markets and valuations
but it's not changing customers.
That's what I'm hearing.
Now, you probably would agree with that, right?
>> James: I think that's exactly right.
>> Okay. So let's stay with that.
If you believe that, then it's like, okay,
what are they doing?
So what are customers doubling down on?
What are some of the patterns you're seeing
in the environment today
that you could share with the audience?
>> Yeah, so I think first and foremost
is that steady transition to the cloud
to deliver all of those benefits, agility,
cost, elasticity, innovation, sovereignty,
sustainability that hasn't gone away at all.
In fact, it's only accelerated.
With workloads like virtual desktops,
which became so critical during COVID
the need to be able to provide that kind
of scalable elastic capacity has only increased.
Now, coupled with that, most of these customers are already
on a cloud journey.
And while some folks may have had the luxury
of letting that go a little bit more slowly,
nowadays the urgency is pervasive
across all of the industries
that we get to talk to in New York.
Everyone needs to go faster.
Everybody's not seeing the progress that they expected
that we think we can help them deliver.
So the opportunity I think that's come out of COVID
is more workloads, different use cases, disaster recovery,
ransomware- >> Is that more of an awareness
or reality or both?
>> Both. Absolutely.
>> Okay. So let me ask the next question.
'Cause this is a good conversation, I think.
I agree a hundred percent.
We're seeing the same exact thing.
Now let's talk about how companies are thinking
about the real opportunity that's emerged,
which is refactoring the business model
without actually changing the makeup
of the organization per se, to take on new territories
and potentially take over categories.
>> James: Mm hmm.
>> So I mean a data warehouse
and a data cloud's kind of the same thing.
Snowflake probably wouldn't like me saying that they're
a data warehouse because they call themselves a data cloud,
but it's kind of the same thing, just refactored on AWS.
>> James: Yep. >> That's a super cloud.
So that's an opportunity for everyone to do that
in every vertical.
How many customers are actually thinking that way
and actually taking steps to pursue that,
capture that opportunity?
Or do you agree it's the opportunity?
>> No, I think that that is an opportunity
and I love that idea of super cloud in that
what I think customers have started to realize,
over the last couple of years in particular,
is it's very difficult to take advantage
of all of those great cloud services
if your applications are still behind
a whole lot of different layers of firewalls and so forth.
So getting the application close to those services,
in proximity to those services is that first step
in modernization.
Then it doesn't have to be a change the wings
on the plane while it's flying conversation, which-
>> John: Yeah.
>> You know, is very risky for a lot of organizations.
>> John: Exactly.
>> It's a let's get the plane going a little bit faster.
Let's get the plane going a little bit smoother,
and let's get the plane to its destination with less risk.
>> You know, James, that reminds me
of the old school conversations
of non disruptive operations.
Remember those days?
>> James: I do, yeah.
>> Mostly around storage and, and servers.
But that's what basically what you're saying.
Transform while operating, right?
>> James: Exactly.
>> So this is, you can do both.
You got to make time and it's a talent question too.
I'd love to get your thoughts on how customers
are thinking about who do you put on which task.
'Cause you want your A players on both areas.
You don't want all your A players, what I hear,
CSOs and CIOs telling me is that,
I put all my A players on transformation,
I got no one running the business.
>> James: Mm hmm.
>> So you got to kind of balance.
That's a cultural team decision.
>> It's a cultural team decision.
It's also a skills marketplace decision.
>> John: Yeah.
>> And there's a practical reality to the skills
that are available and how fast you can hire them.
So a big part of the conversation that we have
is when customers have existing skills sets,
plug those into their transformation,
plug those into their business outcomes.
I like to use the phrase, "Let's make heroes out of IT"
because they can be a much more critical player
than they think they can be.
Yeah, IT basically is not even around anymore.
It's part of the organization.
And then you have data science
and data engineering coming in.
So it's, you know, IT is not a department anymore,
it's the company
>> Exactly right.
>> If you're kind of going down that road, yeah.
>> Yeah.
Alright, so final question.
What's the biggest change you've seen
and observed in your current year and a half?
You know, we're coming out of COVID, knowing what was before,
what sea change, what inflection point are we in now?
How would you describe this current market?
'Cause again, we're kind of in a unique market.
You know, you got crypto around the corner,
people getting attracted to that,
little bubbly obviously,
reality of cloud and 2.0 or super cloud emerging.
On premise is not going away.
Edge exploding on the industrial side,
especially with machine learning coming along.
So this operating model is clearly in sight.
What's the biggest observation you've noticed.
>> I think it's the sense of urgency over the last couple
of years in that most customers I talked to
are no longer relaxed about the timing
of delivering cloud capabilities to their organizations.
Most customers are on sort of a transformation journey
of their own and digital transformation
and cloud transformation are absolutely fundamental to that.
>> One more real quick follow up question if you don't mind,
'cause I appreciate your time.
One of the things that's come up a lot
in our conversations is the role of the ecosystem.
Not only as a part of the business model
but also validation of the enablement
that cloud offers companies.
You have an enabling platform, your ecosystem is well known.
And so your customers are starting to develop ecosystems.
So if the cloud model kind of trickles
like downstream, ecosystem is kind of a proof of something.
>> James: Mm hmm.
>> What's your view of all this ecosystem discussion
as we transform this next generation?
>> Yeah, I think it touches on a couple of things.
So obviously there is a technology ecosystem,
which is evolving very rapidly in support of cloud
and cloud transformation.
But what's interesting, I think is
the business ecosystem that's evolving around it.
We're seeing our customers evolve their own businesses
to assume that those cloud capabilities
will be available to them.
And if the cloud capabilities are not available to them
in a timely fashion, then the ecosystem
starts to have a domino effect.
So the ecosystems are interdependent between business,
and technology, and skills, and talent.
And I think that's a great to be
>> James Forrester, they're going to shut us down.
The speakers are on, they're going to pull the plug.
Thanks for being our last interview here in New York City
and bringing us home.
Really appreciate you taking the time to come on theCube.
>> John, thanks so much.
Great to be here, really enjoyed it.
Okay. We are wrapping it up here in New York City.
I'm John Ford with theCube, great day.
For Lisa Martin, Dave Vellante, and the entire crew
of theCube here on the ground.
Live in person events are back.
theCube hybrid, get online, check out our coverage there.
The SiliconANGLE and thecube.net.
I'm John Furrier signing off from New York City.
See you next time.
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