so what's your response to president
Trump's travel ban the main substance of
his address last night I mean I think
it's you know I think US travel bans are
you know wholly incoherent they they're
they're actually five different policies
that apply to different parts of the
world for example you're banned from a
highly functioning health system like
say Switzerland but you can come in if
you're from a low functioning health
system like Russia or sub-saharan Africa
but there's more than that
this doesn't make Americans safe at all
the epidemic here is just as bad if not
worse than in most parts of Europe and
so by banning people have been to Europe
makes absolutely no sense it doesn't
make Americans one job safer germs
really just don't respect borders you
know this is not a trade war this is you
know not a you know a political fight
this is a microbe and you just can't
erect travel bans and expect that you're
going to be safe self-evidently America
is not safe to your logic then you would
exclude the UK too because there are
more cases there than there are in some
parts of Europe that are now banned yes
I mean of course and there are there
places all around the world that have
the same kind of case counts that you
have and so in some parts of Europe it's
you know it's meaningless once you start
to pick and choose among countries start
to count cases very very little
rationality behind it I should say this
also the decision that President Trump
made goes expressly against the World
Health Organization Express
recommendations and they violate the
United States's treaty obligations under
the International Health Regulations
both of which briefly say what both of
which briefly say no travel bans because
they're pointless because they're
pointless they're absolutely pointed
as w-h-o has just yesterday announced
that they think that the world is on on
a pandemic status we're all moving from
what's known as containment to
mitigation and so containment means well
we can just stop this you know the way
you know SARS doesn't exist anymore or
we stop MERS or other kinds of novel
diseases but h1n1 you couldn't stop with
influenza it actually still is here it's
actually in our seasonal vaccine we
don't even know it
but it's it's circulating all the time
this could be the same thing we could
now be in a stage where we just want to
mitigate it we want to slow it so things
like social distancing school closures
trying to postpone or cancel mass
gatherings political events you know the
other thing that really does upset and
sad me is that President Trump doesn't
become a good role model for this he's
continued to have political rallies he's
shaking hands with his supporters and
that doesn't just put the president at
risk it puts the supporters at risk but
much worse his supporters will go out to
their families their communities to
people who are vulnerable and elderly
and past the infection there so what
kind of a role model is that we need a
strong science-based policy and a
trusted person to tell America what we
know what we don't know and what we're
going to try to find out what we don't
know and to do it honestly and
straightforwardly that's just not
happening given President Trump is
surrounded by experts if he chooses to
pull them in and listen to them why then
did he make a travel ban the centerpiece
of this announcement because I think
he's he's sometimes listening to his
public health task force and sometimes
not what he's doing now is he's
conflating
his travel and border policy with at a
public health fight against kovat and so
he thinks that you know what worked with
immigration or trade closing borders is
what you need to do against this microbe
and there's no scientific body that
recommends it CDC doesn't recommend it
whu-oh doesn't recommend it this is
coming straight from the White House I
can assure you the travel bans just
don't work what does work are some of
the things that we haven't done well
like rolling out tests China South Korea
Japan have done you know magnitudes of
orders of more testing than in the
United States we've defunded our public
health agencies our CDC our state and
local health officials President Trump
one of the first things he did in office
was fire the global health security
chief in the National Security Council
even though he had just been warned that
a pandemic was looming and so it's just
this it's a it's an utter lack of
preparedness and regard you know job
number one of any politician whether
it's Prime Minister Boris Johnson or
President Trump or anyone is to keep the
public healthy and safe there's nothing
else everything else is secondary and
unfortunately at least in America and
actually many other countries we're not
doing a very good job of it and why the
mess with the testing in your view what
happened and what needs to happen and
why didn't he address it well you know I
think we're fixing it but it might be
too little too late so I do think in the
next few weeks we're gonna see the
rollout of millions of tests but the
truth is is that we needed those tests
weeks ago because days and weeks matter
crucially in an epidemic and we're no
longer probably in a phase where we can
we're testing really helps you identify
cases isolate them contact trace put
them in quarantine we may have passed
that and so you know we had that sweet
spot and the window of opportunity may
have closed what happened why didn't we
why it didn't happen was it was it was a
confluence of bad planning and a little
bit of arrogance so the United States
thought well why should we buy test kits
from Germany why should we use w-h-o
approved test kits let's just develop
them our own and so we developed them
and our manufacturers had a quality
assurance problem with them and there
were too few tests and we didn't have
enough availability the FDA had hadn't
approved many laboratories doing it
CDC's testing guidance was far too
narrow and the White House was just
sitting back you know probably at golf
golfing or mar-a-lago
and so didn't coordinate or plan it as a
result we were fatally deficient in our
testing capacity did people like
yourself one of the world's the world's
leading expert in pandemic in pandemics
and how governments respond to them have
you been brought in to advise the White
House have you you'd expect them during
in people like you absolutely would you
know I've been brought in by all of the
major Democratic presidential candidates
people in Congress NIH CDC the World
Health Organization but not the Trump
administration no not the White House
well you know they they the White House
has long been questioning of science you
know they actually it's not well known
but apart from climate change which is
well known and climate denial the the
White House had advised the US Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention
not to use the words evidence-based or
science-based and it's in its documents
that's shocking
why wouldn't government want to know
what works and what doesn't what there's
what there's good evidence for and what
there isn't so there's a shocking
disregard for science and evidence now
it should say you know it does pain me
to make these criticisms because this is
a national and global crisis and I do
believe we all need to come together the
shouldn't be bought party political it
shouldn't be ideological we should be
all pulling together for the health of
the American people and for the entire
planet because we are in a crisis and in
a crisis we have to look out for one
another I urge people you know go see
your elderly neighbor knock on the door
don't ask what everybody owes you but
what do you owe to your community to
your family to your neighbors to keep
everybody safe and secure and we need to
recapture somehow that tradition of the
common good president Trump would say
that's exactly what he was attempting to
do he did speak in those terms about
people coming together and putting party
politics to one side do you think he
achieved that was he presidential in
your view you know the problem with
President Trump is is that he could say
one thing one moment and say the other
thing the next moment so he has
politicize it with China I mean the you
know the the the the State Department
and the White House have called it the
Wuhan coronavirus they've with one of
the first to ban travel from China
they've made it as a political weapon
and by announcing you know travel
restrictions of travel bans and then
saying we need to come together we're
not coming together as a global
community quite quite the reverse we're
unraveling
he means come together as Americans he
does mean come together as America he
does with global trade yes
with looking it's a very inward looking
message you know I believe in both I
need I think we need to come together as
Americans and I think we have to come
together as as a global society one of
the things that the White House did that
really perplexed me and other Americans
is they said that the scientists should
clear their health messaging ANCOVA 19
with the White House which is exactly
backwards it's the White House that
should clear its health messaging with
public health professionals and that
just gives you a tenor a tone of what's
going on and that never happened in the
past not under President Obama not under
President Bush not at all President Bush
started PEPFAR the greatest US health
aid program in the history of the world
helping sub-saharan Africa in an AIDS
epidemic remember President Obama was
the leader in the West African Ebola
crisis you know sending the military and
getting a huge emergency appropriation
getting in United States Security
Council resolution and and the days
after he made the announcement for
sending the military to Liberia the UK
and France sent their militaries into
West Africa as well so that was
leadership and we're certainly not
seeing that now travel ban aside then
what would you like to have seen him do
what needs to be done now what should
have been the message to the American
people here who are desperate for that
leadership they are I mean there's some
very very clear answers you know we
don't need the draconian methods that
we've seen in China you know locking
down Wu
and wider hoob a province of 60 million
people people would say is that not what
has caused a decrease in the violence
there that's what whu-oh said but but
but this is important the same decrease
occured in South Korea and Japan without
Ciccone and methods we can do this with
a tried-and-true public health approach
we've done it with all other diseases in
the past which is which is widespread
testing contact tracing isolation and
Quarantine for those who are a
significant risk to the public social
distancing school closures trying to
cancel all mass gatherings church
services looking out for business
conventions political rallies and
political conventions remote working and
remote learning in other words now what
we need to do is to to flatten the curve
and buy ourselves time before we can get
a specific treatment which could be
online within a few months or a vaccine
which unfortunately won't be here for
another year to a year and a half and to
be clear all those measures that you
just outlined should be in your view put
in place in the US and globally right
now right now absolutely I mean there
may be some pockets around the world
where it's so early that you can just
use containment and you don't have to
you know close everything mass events
down but I think in most places you do
and certainly in the United States and
the signs have been here so clear and
for so long that there's a lot of silent
transmission in the community going on
all over the United States so why then
just lastly why didn't President Trump
say that it's a very simple list took
you 20 seconds to say it
it was very powerful it would have sent
the message don't panic but this is what
we need to do to flatten that curve
we're all in this together why didn't he
do that
I think because he mistakes border
control with Public Health and somehow
he thinks that you know America first
meaning means battening down the hatches
and you know don't let those people come
here and that will work but that's not
what the public health people are
telling him I can assure you I know just
about everybody on it on the on the
White House Task Force and I've known
them for four years
and I can assure you that that's not the
message they're telling him nobody's
saying that border closures are the
answer to this I believe he did that for
political reasons because it makes him
look tough you know if you ban travel
it's America first you're looking tough
you're looking after Americans that's
the message he's trying to send I think
there will be you know a you know small
percentage of America that will be very
happy with that but I can assure you in
the halls of the CDC state and local
health department's people are shaking
their heads thank you very much my
pleasure thank you for having me
you