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>> Chris: CORONAVIRUS CASES
FUELED BY THE DELTA VARIANT
CONTINUE TO SEARCH, PRIMARILY
AMONG THE UNVACCINATED.
AS THE FDA AUTHORIZES BOOSTER
SHOTS FOR SOME PEOPLE AND MORE
EMPLOYERS ARE REQUIRING
VACCINATION AS A CONDITION FOR
RETURNING TO WORK.
JOINING US NOW TO DISCUSS THE
LATEST GUIDANCE, THE DIRECTOR OF
THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF
HEALTH, DR. FRANCIS COLLINS.
DR. COLLINS, LET’S START WITH
THE LATEST FIGURES ON THIS
FOURTH WAVE OF THE CORONAVIRUS.
I WANT TO PUT THE STATS UP ON
THE SCREEN.
THE LATEST AVERAGE OF NEW CASES
IS MORE THAN 129,000 NEW CASES A
DAY.
THAT’S UP MORE THAN 700% FROM
THE BEGINNING OF JULY.
ASSUMING CURRENT TRENDS OF THE
SPREAD OF THE VIRUS AND ASSUMING
THE CURRENT LEVEL OF
VACCINATIONS, HOW HIGH COULD
THIS WAVE GET BEFORE IT CRESTS?
HOW MANY NEW CASES COULD WE BE
SEEING A DAY?
>> Dr. Collins: CHRIS, WE
CAN’T REALLY PREDICT THAT.
ALL WE CAN SAY IS THAT THIS IS
GOING VERY STEEPLY UPWARD WITH
NO SIGNS OF HAVING PEEKED OUT.
SO I WILL BE SURPRISED IF WE
DON’T CROSS 200,000 CASES IN THE
NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS AND THAT’S
HEARTBREAKING CONSIDERING WE
NEVER THOUGHT WE WOULD BE BACK
IN THAT SPACE AGAIN.
IF THAT WAS JANUARY, FEBRUARY.
THAT SHOULDN’T BE AUGUST, BUT
HERE WE ARE WITH DELTA VARIANT
WHICH IS SO CONTAGIOUS AND THIS
HEARTBREAKING SITUATION WHERE
90 MILLION PEOPLE ARE STILL
UNVACCINATED WHAT ARE SITTING
DUCKS FOR THIS VIRUS AND THAT’S
THE MESS WE ARE IN.
WE ARE IN A WORLD OF HURT AND
IT’S A CRITICAL JUNCTURE TO TRY
TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO TURN
THAT AROUND.
>> Chris: WE ARE ALSO SEEING A
SHARP RISE IN THE NUMBER OF
PEDIATRIC CASES BOTH
UNVACCINATED KIDS AND VACCINATED
KIDS WHO ARE GETTING COVID FROM
THIS NEW DELTA VARIANT.
HOW BAD COULD THAT SPIKE IN
PEDIATRIC CASES?
>> Dr. Collins: THAT’S VERY
WORRISOME.
I THINK TRADITIONALLY PEOPLE
KIND OF CONSIDERED, WELL, YOU
KNOW, KIDS AREN’T GOING TO GET
THAT SICK WITH THIS.
IT MORE THAN 400 CHILDREN HAVE
DIED OF COVID-19 AND RIGHT NOW
WE HAVE ALMOST 2,000 KIDS IN THE
HOSPITAL, MANY OF THEM IN ICU,
SOME OF THEM UNDER THE AGE OF
FOUR, SO ANYBODY WHO TRIES TO
TELL YOU DON’T WORRY ABOUT THE
KIDS, THE VIRUS WON’T REALLY
BOTHER THEM, THAT’S NOT THE
EVIDENCE AND ESPECIALLY WITH
DELTA BEING SO CONTAGIOUS, KIDS
ARE VERY SERIOUSLY AT RISK AND
IT’S UP TO ALL OF US TO DO
EVERYTHING WE CAN TO PROTECT
THEM, AS WELL AS WE ARE TRYING
TO PROTECTIVE HER BODY ELSE AT
THE SAME TIME.
>> Chris: TALK ABOUT
PROTECTING THEM, SEVEN STATES
ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVE BANS IN
PLACE, BANS AGAINST MANDATES FOR
SCHOOL MASKS, MASK FOR THESE
KIDS WHEN THEY’RE IN THE SCHOOLS
AND FLORIDA
GOVERNOR RON DeSANTIS IS
LEADING THE CHARGE.
THERE HE WAS THIS WEEK, SIR.
>> IF YOU’RE COMING UP TO THE
RIGHTS OF PARENTS IN FLORIDA,
I’M STANDING IN YOUR WAY, I’M
NOT GOING TO LET YOU GET AWAY
WITH IT.
>> Chris: HOW STRONG IS THE
CASE THAT CHILDREN IN SCHOOL
SHOULD WEAR MASKS AS A
MITIGATION AGAINST DELTA?
>> Dr. Collins: CHRIS, IT’S
VERY STRONG.
SOGO TO THE CDC WEBSITE, YOU WIL
SEE MORE THAN A DOZEN
PUBLICATIONS SHOWING THAT
EVIDENCE AND ALREADY YOU CAN SEE
IN THIS COUNTRY THE SCHOOLS HAVE
STARTED TO OPEN WITHOUT MASK
REQUIREMENTS.
OUTBREAKS ARE HAPPENING AT WHAT
HAPPENS THEN?
THE KIDS ARE SENT HOME FOR
VIRTUAL LEARNING, WHICH IS WHAT
WE WERE TRYING TO AVOID.
IT’S REALLY UNFORTUNATE THAT
POLITICS AND POLARIZATION HAVE
GOT IN THE WAY OF A SIMPLE
PUBLIC HEALTH MAJOR -- THIS MASK
THAT I’M HOLDING HAS SOMEHOW
BECOME A SYMBOL THAT IT NEVER
SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
THIS IS BASICALLY JUST A
LIFE-SAVING MEDICAL DEVICE AND
SOMEHOW IT’S NOW BEING SEEN AS
AN INVASION OF YOUR PERSONAL
LIBERTY.
WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE GONE THERE.
IT’S HEARTBREAKING FOR ME AS A
PERSON WHO’S NOT A POLITICIAN,
I’M A SCIENTIST.
I’M A PUBLIC HEALTH PERSON, I’M
A DOCTOR, TO SEE HOW MASKS HAVE
GOTTEN INTO THIS VERY STRANGE
PLACE WITH PARENTS AND OTHERS
SHOUTING ABOUT IT.
WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE ALLOWED
THAT TO HAPPEN.
>> Chris: I WANT TO PICK UP ON
THAT BECAUSE THE BOARD OF
EDUCATION IN WILLIAMSON COUNTY
TENNESSEE NEAR NASHVILLE HELD A
MEETING THIS WEEK ON THE ISSUE
OF MASK MANDATES AND THERE WERE
SOME PARENTS IN THE GROUP,
INCLUDING SOME DOCTORS WHO HAD
KIDS IN THE SCHOOL WHO WERE
URGING THAT EVERYBODY WEAR
MASKS, THAT THERE BE A MASK
MANDATE, AND I WANT TO PLAY THE
REACTION, THE SCENE IN THE
PARKING LOT AFTER THE MEETING OF
THE SCHOOL BOARD.
HERE THEY ARE.
>> WE KNOW YOU ARE!
WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE!
>> WE WILL FIND YOU!
>> YOU WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED IN
PUBLIC AGAIN!
YOU WILL NEVER BE ALLOWED -- YOU
ARE NEVER GOING TO BE ALLOWED IN
PUBLIC AGAIN!
>> Chris: AS THE HEAD OF THE
NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH,
AS A PERSON WHO IS DEVOTED YOUR
LIFE TO PUBLIC HEALTH, WHAT’S
YOUR REACTION, SIR, WHEN YOU SEE
THAT?
>> Dr. Collins: IT’S
DEVASTATING THAT WE IN THIS
COUNTRY, THE MOST ADVANCED
TECHNOLOGICAL SOCIETY ON THE
PLANET HAS SOMEHOW SLIPPED INTO
A SPACE WHERE THE EVIDENCE AND
THE BASIS FOR MAKING DECISIONS
ON FACTS HAS GOTTEN PUSHED ASIDE
BY POLITICS, BY SOCIAL MEDIA
CONSPIRACIES AND BY THIS
INCREDIBLE DEPTH OF ANGER AND
GRIEVANCE THAT SEEMS TO BE HELD
BY SO MANY.
OUR FUTURE AS A NATION HAS GOT
TO REVOLVE AROUND COMING AWAY
FROM THAT AND UP APPROACH TO
EVERYTHING OR I DON’T SEE HOW WE
ARE GOING TO SOLVE ALL OF OUR
SOCIETY’S PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE
LOOMING IN FRONT OF US.
IF I HAVE ONE THING I’M WORRIED
ABOUT IT’S NOT JUST THE EPIDEMIC
OF COVID-19, IT’S THE EPIDEMIC
OF MISINFORMATION,
DISINFORMATION, DISTRUST, THAT
IS TEARING US APART.
>> Chris: ONE OF THE BIG
QUESTIONS NOW, DR. COLLINS, IS
WHETHER OR NOT ALL OF US WHO GOT
THE VACCINES IN THE FIRST PLACE
ARE GOING TO NEED A THIRD SHOT
OR A BOOSTER, WHATEVER YOU WANT
TO CALL IT, BECAUSE OF DECLINING
PROTECTION FROM THE VACCINE OVER
TIME.
NOW, YOU AND THE CDC AND ALL THE
TOP GOVERNMENT SCIENTISTS ARE
SAYING WELL, MAYBE SOMETIME
LATER THIS FALL, MAYBE EARLY
NEXT YEAR, BUT IN ISRAEL RIGHT
NOW THEY ARE GIVING THE THIRD
SHOTS TO EVERYBODY OVER 60 AND
STARTING THIS WEEK THEY’RE GOING
TO BE GIVING A SHOCK TO
EVERYBODY OVER 50, WHICH RAISES
THE QUESTION, DO THEY KNOW
SOMETHING WE DON’T, SIR?
>> Dr. Collins: WELL, WE’RE
LOOKING VERY CLOSELY AT THEIR
DATA AS WELL AS OUR OWN.
THIS IS A TRICKY SITUATION.
FIRST LET’S POINT OUT THAT JUST
ON FRIDAY CDC’S ADVISORY GROUP
AND THE CDC DIRECTOR ACCEPTED
IT, APPROVED A THIRD SHOT FOR
PEOPLE WHO HAVE IMMUNOCOPPER
MICE, BUT THAT’S A SEPARATE
QUESTION.
WHAT ABOUT THE REST OF US?
AGAIN, WE’RE LOOKING AT THIS
DATA ALMOST DAILY.
IF THERE IS A CONCERN THAT THE
VACCINE MAY START TO WANE IN ITS
EFFECTIVENESS OVER MONTHS AND
DELTA IS A NASTY ONE FOR US TO
TRY TO DEAL WITH, THE
COMBINATION OF THOSE TWO MEANS
WE MAY NEED BOOSTERS, MAY BE
BEGINNING FIRST WITH HEALTH CARE
PROVIDERS AS WELL AS PEOPLE IN
NURSING HOMES AND THEN GRADUALLY
MOVING FORWARD.
WE HAVE NOT MADE THAT DECISION
YET BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IF THE
DATA WE HAVE FROM THE U.S. SAYS
PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED ARE
FULLY PROTECTED, EVEN AGAINST
DELTA WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
SEVERE DISEASE.
IF YOU’RE NOT GOING TO END UP IN
A HOSPITAL IF YOU HAVE THAT
VACCINATION AND OF COURSE THE
BIG MESSAGE RIGHT NOW THIS
MORNING’S, CHRIS, FOR THE PEOPLE
WHO AREN’T VACCINATED, THIS IS
THE MOMENT TO ABSOLUTELY GET OFF
THE FENCE AND TAKE CARE OF THIS,
BECAUSE YOU ARE A SITTING DUCK
FOR THIS VIRUS.
IT’S LOOKING FOR YOU.
>> Chris: BUT YOU MUST KNOW
THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DID
GET VACCINATED WHO ARE SEEING --
AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME
STUDIES, AS YOU SAY.
IT DOESN’T INDICATE PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO GET -- CERTAINLY BE
HOSPITALIZED OR DIE, BUT THAT
THE PROTECTION FROM THE VACCINE
IS WANING, AND AS YOU KNOW, SOME
PEOPLE HAVE GONE AND GOTTEN A
THIRD BOOSTER ON THEIR OWN IN
THIS COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, EITHER
LIED ABOUT IT OR WHATEVER, AND,
YOU KNOW, IF YOU’RE LOOKING AT
WHAT’S GOING ON IN ISRAEL, WHICH
SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY SAFE AND
CAREFUL COUNTRY, WHY SHOULDN’T
YOU SAY WELL, IF THEY ARE DOING
IT, I’LL DO IT?
>> Dr. Collins: IN FACT THAT
IS THE QUESTION WE ARE ASKING
CLOSELY.
REMEMBER ISRAEL HAD DELTA HIT
THEM SOONER THAN IT DID US, SO
IN A CERTAIN WAY, THE TIMETABLE
WE’RE LOOKING AT HIS STEPPED
BACK A BIT BECAUSE OF THE SPREAD
OF THIS VIRUS.
THAT’S PART OF IT.
BUT ALSO WE ARE A DIFFERENT KIND
OF COUNTRY WITH DIFFERENT
SITUATIONS.
WE ARE GETTING INCREASING A
MONTH OF DATA FROM THE U.S.,
ESPECIALLY THE NEXT COUPLE OF
WEEKS.
WE ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT SINCE
DELTA REALLY STARTED HITTING
HARD IN JULY.
AND THEN WE WILL MAKE A DECISION
AND AGAIN, I DON’T THINK IT’S
RIGHT FOR PEOPLE TO JUMP THE GUN
UNTIL WE REALLY HAVE THE
EVIDENCE.
WE ARE BACK TO WHERE WE WERE A
MINUTE AGO, CHRIS.
WE ARE A NATION THAT IS SUPPOSED
TO MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON
EVIDENCE, LET’S TRY TO APPLY
THAT HERE TOO.
>> Chris: FINALLY,
GOVERNOR DeSANTIS BLAMES
PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR SPREADING
COVID BY LETTING SO MANY PEOPLE
WITH COVID INTO THE COUNTRY
ILLEGALLY.
HERE WAS GOVERNOR DeSANTIS ON
THAT.
>> WHATEVER VARIANCE ARE AROUND
THE WORLD, THEY ARE COMING
ACROSS THAT SOUTHERN BORDER SO
HE’S NOT SHUTTING DOWN THE
VIRUS, HE’S HELPING TO
FACILITATE IT IN OUR COUNTRY.
>> Chris: YOUR TALK ABOUT
DEALING WITH THE SCIENCE,
DEALING WITH FACTS, I’M GOING TO
ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.
AND PARTS OF TEXAS, THE
POSITIVITY RATE FOR COVID AMONG
SOME OF THE ILLEGAL MIGRANTS
COMING ACROSS THE BORDER IS OVER
10%.
HOW RESPONSIBLE ARE THEY FOR
SPREADING FOR THIS WAVE OF COVID
THAT IS SWEEPING THE COUNTRY
RIGHT NOW?
>> Dr. Collins: IT CERTAINLY A
CAUSE OF CONCERN.
THEY HAVE VERY SIGNIFICANT
MASKING REQUIREMENTS THERE BUT
IT IS CERTAINLY POSSIBLE.
BUT YOU KNOW, LET NOBODY TRY TO
SAY THAT’S WHY THE U.S. IS IN
TROUBLE.
THE RATE OF INFECTION IN MEXICO
IS ACTUALLY LOWER THAN IT IS
RIGHT NOW IN PLACES LIKE TEXAS
AND LOUISIANA AND FLORIDA.
I THINK THAT’S A BIT OF A
DISTRACTION.
WE’VE GOT ENOUGH OF A PROBLEM
WITH HER OWN CITIZENS WHO HAVE
REFUSED TO ROLL UP THEIR
SLEEVES, SO MAYBE THAT WOULD BE
A BETTER THING TO FOCUS ON IF WE
ARE TRYING TO END THIS.
THAT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS NOT
GOING TO GET US WHERE WE NEED TO
BE.
IT’S AN ISSUE, BUT IT IS
CERTAINLY NOT THE CAUSE OF OUR
CURRENT DILEMMA.
>> Chris: DR. COLLINS,
THANK YOU.