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- Hello, everyone,
and welcome to BossTalks,
a series featuring
candid, career conversations
with some of the best in business.
Today's episode is dedicated
to finding your leadership style.
Now, I get a ton of
questions on this topic
from our BossTalks community.
So this episode is brought
to you by popular demand.
Now, I can tell you
that my leadership style
did not happen overnight.
It has taken years and years of practice
and trying new things for me
to grow into a style that
really felt authentic to me.
Because being a leader is not
about adopting someone else's style
or doing things exactly
the way they did it,
it's all about embracing your superpowers
and leading from a place
of truth and authenticity.
So today I've invited a leader
that I've learned so much from.
And that's Poshmark CEO Manish Chandra.
(air whooshes)
Manish, welcome to BossTalks.
- Hi, Ebony.
Great to see you, and
thank you for having me.
- When I thought about
who I wanted on the show
for this episode, I thought about you
and your career journey
because it's so inspiring.
I love how you talk about growing up
with that entrepreneur spirit,
and how that experience
really charted your path.
So tell us more about that.
- Sure. Yeah.
I grew up in India, and
my summers were spent
in my grandfather's pharmaceutical shop
in one of the busiest markets in Delhi.
And what I saw growing
up was people transacting,
interacting, talking to
each other, deal-making.
And, you know, I was all
of like nine and 10 years old,
so it left a very deep
impression on how shopping,
commerce, business should be done.
And above all, my grandfather was a man
of intense integrity.
So that was the other aspect
that I learned through that journey.
And he was a man who treated everyone
with a lot of respect and care.
So those are all the values
that have sort of been
part of what I learned with
and what I grew up with
and, you know, hopefully I
embrace in my journey today.
- I think that's definitely
authentic to you.
And I love that that same inspiration,
that same entrepreneurial mindset
that you grew up with is the mindset
that you create and really
are looking for at Poshmark.
You encourage every
employee to be an entrepreneur
in their role, and in their career.
So tell us why you think
that spirit is key to leadership.
- Today, as we go through our career,
every five or 10 years,
technology is changing,
the world is changing, and
we need to evolve with it.
And to me, all of that boils
down to one single principle,
which is there's a super power
and strength inside of
you that is uniquely yours.
And if you can partner
with the right leadership
with the right external circumstances,
have that passion for growth,
you can become anything.
And I really mean it in a very direct way.
We have people in our
team who've gone from,
you know, doing something that they love,
which was serving executives
and working as an executive partner,
and today they run
teams of 200, 300 people,
leading in a very different way.
We have people who've gone
from working in customer service
to leading marketing teams to
then becoming technologists.
And so I feel like that journey, I mean,
your journey itself is sort of
so interesting in terms of
how we can reinvent
ourselves and truly find that start.
- And I love that you
brought in your team here
because you've developed
a really strong team.
And we know we just
talked about entrepreneurship
as a great leadership quality,
but I imagine some people are thinking,
what are some other
characteristics of strong leaders?
What is your opinion on that?
- Well, I think first thing is
to really have some level of empathy
and caring for the
people you're working with.
I think the second dimension is humility.
A group leader is always learning.
And third is, I think,
situational leadership.
To me, you know, one of
the most powerful thing is
if I'm talking to someone,
they are at a different sort
of evolution in their career.
And how I talk to them,
if I talk to another person
who was maybe at a different evolution,
not just in their career overall,
but in the specific
role that they're playing,
my guidance can be very directive
or can be very inspirational,
it can be very goal oriented.
But if I mismanage it,
if someone who needs direction
I give them goal orientation,
or someone who needs goal
orientation I give them direction,
there'll be dissatisfied, confused,
and may not even achieve
what I want them to achieve,
and ultimately leave me.
So that's the mark of a true leader,
is to be very situation
specific, empathetic,
and then ultimately very
authentic and true and humble.
- So Manish,
those characteristics don't
develop overnight, right?
I know for me, like I mentioned earlier,
it's taken me some time to really hone
in on my leadership style.
So what are your tips for
finding that leadership style,
or grooming and growing yourself into
that leader that you want to be?
- I think one tip I have is mentors.
I think we all need people
that we can learn from.
I still continue to have different kinds
of mentors who you grow from.
And I feel like to really grow,
you need someone else
who can be your partner.
And, you know, in early life,
our mentors can be people we know.
Our family members, teachers.
But later on in life, as you're evolving,
finding and grooming those mentors
is really, really important because
that partnership can actually
help identify superpowers
inside of you that you don't know,
help bring out a leadership style
that you might think is a weakness,
and it could be one of
your biggest strength,
and then, ultimately,
also teach you new things.
Because I think we
always have to be learning
as a leader and as sort
of just as a human being.
- That's right.
You know, I think it's really important
to acknowledge that our
leadership style can change
as we grow as leaders
or take on new roles.
Like, you definitely mentioned
that situational leadership,
or even as our teams change.
So how do you adapt your leadership style
to new situations in a way
that's still authentic to you?
- That is a really good observation,
and it's very true that
our leadership style has
to evolve, has to change.
Even though some of the
essential elements should remain
through that whole process changing,
and they also have to
be circumstantial, right?
Like a leader who's
leading their organization,
their team through a crisis situation has
to behave very differently.
You know, they call it peacetime leaders
and wartime leaders,
and their behavior has to be different.
There is, you know, early stage leaders,
later stage leaders,
and that has to evolve.
One of the things I sort
of have used as a rubric is
when you level up or
are taking a new role,
you have to think like
four years in college, right?
You play a role.
Let's say, if you think of my journey,
I became an early stage
CEO 10, 15 years back.
Took me a few years to learn.
And then I say, I graduated
from that early stage CEO role.
You know, I became a senior graduate.
But then I started to
get to a larger company,
different sort of management challenges,
and I became a freshmen yet again.
So if you use that rubric,
then you're learning new skills
and sort of changing your leadership style
to you use that situation.
And so if you explicitly acknowledge
that I'm now a freshmen
class of something,
then it gives you the
freedom to make mistakes,
to learn, and reevaluate
your leadership style
in a different set of circumstances.
- Manish, I'm gonna throw
a question in here on you.
You are the CEO of an
amazing company, obviously.
I think so.
And, you know, leadership is not
for the faint of heart.
And as a CEO and a leader of leaders,
what's it like being a CEO?
I think many people have aspirations of,
"I want to be a CEO one day,"
but what's it really like?
Can you give us kind of
like the behind the scenes?
- Sure, sure.
I would say a few things.
I think one is lot of times
as a CEO at any situation,
what you're dealing with is a lot
of the toughest issues in the business.
So, you know, the
issues that can be solved
by your leaders don't
typically come to you.
It's always the toughest issues.
So that's one dimension.
Second is a lot of issues you're dealing
with are people related,
'cause at the end of the day,
if you're a leader of leaders,
your superpower is to work with people,
to resolve people issues,
recruit them, help,
intermediate, et cetera.
And the third piece is continuing
to simplify whatever you're
doing for you and around you.
And that to me is the
most evolutionary challenge
'cause the first two things,
you know, you learn over time,
but in different sort of situations,
in different things, as
the world is changing,
the CEO's job or the leader's job is
to simplify and have that perspective,
which is simple for
the whole organization.
And that's something you have
to constantly keep building and refining.
And great leaders can do that, you know,
adapt to their circumstances.
You know, you may think of it as vision,
but it's really much more
about translating the world
in a way that's simple
and allows the organization
to function. - Right.
And, you know, I like to describe
that as being comfortable
getting uncomfortable.
You have to learn how
to be comfortable with being uncomfortable
in like that adaptability
that you just talked about.
And I think that a lot of
times that takes courage,
like, self-courage, self-analyzation.
So how do you find the courage to lead?
- That is, I think, a belief
that you have to develop in yourself,
and something that I would say to everyone
who's listening to your show.
And, you know, thinking of my journey
and, Ebony, your journey, at each stages,
we've had to take courage
because we've had to go
to places that either we were pioneers
or sort of were following
examples that were different.
I mean, even our
conversations, I remember,
as we've partnered together,
it's taken courage on all sides.
So to me, I think that
courage goes to the belief
that you are capable of anything,
and the only limitation is in your mind.
So the example I love to give,
and I'm gonna repeat it on your show,
is that your ambition, your vision,
and your delivery of anything about you,
about an idea is limited
by your imagination.
Because when you think of a coffee cup,
somebody looks at a
coffee cup and just drinks it.
Another person looks at a
coffee cup and can imagine,
"Hey, I could start a
coffee card business."
Another person looks at
that coffee cup and says,
"Hey, maybe I could open up a coffee shop,
maybe a couple of coffee shops."
But somebody looked at that coffee cup
and started Starbucks.
So if you think about it,
how did the coffee cup become Starbucks,
which was against all
the naysayers, et cetera?
And you think about our journey,
we looked at a closet and
from there created Poshmark.
So it is really your belief in yourself
that you can reinvent.
And you figure it out.
That's, I think, one of the leader says
that you are building a plane,
and you're sort of
jumping off in your career
and your life, and
you're figuring it all out.
It's not that any of us know what's next.
Courage just comes from
faith and faith in yourself,
but faith in also the universe
and people around you.
- I couldn't agree more.
So to help us develop these skills,
I know for me, personally I read a ton.
And sometimes I can't physically read.
I do a lot of listening
to audibles and books,
you know, like that way.
Probably like three to
three to five books a week.
I keep a long list,
and I share my favorites
with people as often as I can,
just because there's so
much to learn on this topic.
As you mentioned, everyone is different,
and we need, you know, different things.
So I'm wondering if you
could tell us maybe some
of your favorite books
or tools that you use.
- Absolutely.
And I'll give you two kinds of books.
One is more on the spiritual side.
So I think one of the books
that for me has always been fantastic
as a source of inspiration
and that inner courage is
"Alchemist" by Paulo Coehlo.
And it's sort of such a powerful book
because it tells you that no
matter what you're seeking,
you find it inside of you.
And so it is very, very much
about finding that courage.
But then in terms of more
practical management
and sort of leadership things,
I think "Leadership and the
One Minute Manager" is one
of my favorites around
situational leadership.
Around thinking about bigger topics,
"Good Strategy/Bad Strategy"
is one of my favorite books.
Then when you think of
sort of autobiographies,
or you think of it from that perspective,
"Shoe Dog" by Phil Knight
is absolutely entertaining
to read, and particularly for
all of you who love sneakers,
it's just so fun to read.
And then if you think of how do you get
in the minds of two of the
biggest spiritual leaders
of our times, there's a book
called "The Book of Joy"
with Dalai Lama and Bishop Desmond Tutu
and their frank conversations.
It is a pretty unique perspective on
how these great spiritual
leaders think, interact,
joyfully interact, and bring that.
So to me, these are some of the books
that I enjoy reading
and find a lot of courage and inspiration.
- Those are great tips and great books.
Thank you for sharing them.
Now, we've all heard the saying
that great leaders build great teams,
but I also think, and I just
posted on this recently,
that the reverse is true.
Like, great teams build great leaders.
It's a very symbiotic
relationship between the two.
And I'm so grateful to
my team for everything
that they've done to really
help me grow as a leader.
So how do you approach
hiring and building your teams?
- You know, I think your first statement
I completely believe in.
That is, great teams build great leaders.
And one of the things I always look for,
especially when I'm
doing a leadership hire,
which is a lot of the times,
is can they teach me
something in the interview?
And almost everyone,
I mean, everyone that I've ever hired,
I learned something in the interview,
and continue to learn from them
as they join the company and continue
to teach and evolve me.
And I, you know,
hopefully partner with them.
The other thing to me
is complementary, right?
Like if you build cookie cutter,
you know, we talk about diversity,
but diversity to me
is diversity of thought,
diversity of skills, diversity of styles.
You know, some people are very empathetic,
some people are very aggressive.
You need all that stuff.
If your culture becomes
very monochromatic,
it's very hard to sort of
evolve your business and grow.
And many times actually
you'll find, and I find it,
that when your business is not growing,
you have to evolve leadership
and bring diverse leadership with the lens
to not just diversity in terms of,
you know, ethnicity and other things,
but diversity of really
strong point of view
so that you can embrace and grow that too.
So that's the second thing.
And third thing we do very consistently
with our leadership hires
is what we call a case study
or like at-job interviews.
They get a real life case
study that they have to work on,
and then present it.
- Oh, really? - For example,
yeah, when we were doing
our general counsel hiring last year,
the case study was all
around, what are the legal ways
in which you would
create the Australian entity?
'Cause we were about to
launch the Australian business.
And what we find is that
many times our ranking
of candidates can change
quite dynamically pre
and post case study.
So it's a very pivotal part of
the interview process for us.
- We have a lot of
first-time people managers
that tune into BossTalks.
So I want to make sure
that we get some advice
that's really specific
and fine tuned for them.
So what advice do you have
for people who are just beginning
to practice these skills?
- Yes, three small tips.
Again, number one is
just really find a mentor.
Like, make sure you acknowledge
that you're in the freshmen
class of people management.
So don't be scared.
You know, just kind of
like the freshman year,
you have to start, you're
learning something new,
acknowledge it, and be open to it,
but also know that these
people are relying on you.
Second is I think ask before you tell.
And that is sort of
really a powerful thing,
which is listening before
speaking is such a key skill.
And it's a hard skill to inculcate
'cause you sort of know it.
And then the third thing is
to remember that you got
to that place because
you demonstrated expertise
and competency, whatever
discipline you were in,
and you sort of showed your skillset.
And now you've been given
charge of managing the people.
But the time it took for
you to build that skill,
these people may or
may not have gotten there.
So remembering that, that
they're also on a journey,
and your goal is to support
that journey is very important,
even though you may have
deadlines and pressures.
So being that buffer is important.
This is a tall ask, and
it takes time to learn,
so I go back to the first principle.
You're still in the freshmen class.
You are free to make mistakes.
- I love this.
This is so practical and tangible.
I love the way your mind works
and how you think about this.
And this is why you're the perfect guest
to talk about this topic.
So I'm so sad that we've
come to the final question,
but it is actually one of
my most favorite questions
that I ask all my guests.
So I'm really excited to
hear your answer on this one.
So Manish, what is your superpower?
- I think my superpower
is, I would call it,
empathy or really helping
you realize your superpower.
So for me, I kind of look at everyone
and try to understand like,
what is really the best thing about them.
Sometimes, you know, I
misunderstood in that context,
but to me, my goal is to
really help you succeed
because in your success lies my success.
So that's sort of, I feel like,
one of the things that I hopefully do well
and hopefully people around
me might agree with that.
But that's what I've tried to do.
- I think that everyone watching this
who knows you is probably
shaking their heads right now,
thinking, "Yeah, that's a superpower."
(laughs)
So Manish, thank you for sharing that,
thank you for joining us,
and thank you for sharing
so many wonderful tips
for finding our leadership style.
We are all, I know, feeling so inspired,
so thank you so much for
being here with us today.
- Thank you for having me on.
Thank you for doing this thing.
I know so many people who watch it avidly.
Ebony, thank you.
- Thank you. (laughs)
I know this is a popular
topic with all of you,
so let's hear your questions.
- Hi, Ebony. My name is Carrie.
I have a question with respect
to bringing your whole self
to work when you're
in a leadership position.
Is that something that, while trending,
you would encourage when you're
in a senior capacity
within an organization?
Thanks so much.
- Hi, Carrie. I love that question.
I love the while trending part.
I know it can feel intimidating
to bring your full self to work,
but it really, really is a game changer
for you and your career, no
matter what level you're at.
I can tell you from my
own personal experience
that holding back or trying to fit in
with everything and everyone
is completely exhausting.
And on the flip side,
it really takes vulnerability
and courage to bring
your whole self to work.
And we need more of that in leadership.
Just think about, like,
the leaders that you identify with.
They're the ones
that are unabashedly
ashamed of being themselves.
They speak up, they speak out.
There may be be quiet leaders.
They're just true to themselves.
So I would say whatever
your leadership style is,
please, don't be afraid to be you.
(air whooshes)
I hope you all enjoyed
today's conversation.
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and I'll see you all next time.
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