One side effect of the pandemic is that global carbon emissions are expected to be down 6%
by the end of the year. And with Times Square abandoned, New York’s majestic Pikachus
are returning to their former natural glory. But if we’ve learned one thing, this crisis
is an opportunity to rethink how our society does and doesn’t work. I had Mike Rubens
investigate what a better post-pandemic world could look like.
The pandemic has turned the world upside down. Republicans are supporting massive spending
programs. Andrew Cuomo is popular. And eminent historians are talking to absolute idiots.
Doris Kearns Goodwin, thank you so much for joining us!
- Oh, I’m very glad to be with you. Thank you.
The question for Goodwin: could this tragic pandemic potentially lead to progress?
- Yes. I think it’s possible. I think it’s even likely. We’ve been through really tough
times before, and we did emerge better as a result of them.
For example, the Great Depression led to once-radical reforms.
- You get, eventually, Social Security. You get a safety net. And you get a minimum wage
and collective bargaining. World War II brought the G.I. Bill, more women
in the workforce, the rise of the middle and the final defeat of fascis—, Okay, temporary
defeat. But... - History tells us that you can have hope,
you can have perspective, you can make things better. We just have to set our minds to it.
So let’s do that! To help envision a better post-pandemic America, I enlisted an all-star
panel of experts, and the simultaneously utopic and dystopic world of Sims, in a segment we’re
calling Imagi-NATION! It’s so great to have an audience again!
- You suck! So great. First, how about a better social
safety net. Robert Reich, author of “The System: Who Rigged It, How We Fix It.”
- We are the most unequal in terms of income and wealth of any advanced country. We have
socialism for the rich and the harshest form of capitalism you can imagine for everybody
else. What specific changes would you like to see
emerge after the pandemic? - Well, if I’m gonna put on my silver lining
hat… Please do.
- We should cancel student debt. We could have a universal health care system. We could
have universal basic income—not keeping people comfortable but at least making sure
they didn’t go hungry. Great! UBI, universal health care, debt forgiveness.
I love the vision! Okay, now do Trump. - If I’m allowed to still have my silver
linings hat on, Donald Trump is not only out of a job, he is prosecuted for violating the
law. And, in fact, there’s a race among public prosecutors to see who is going to
get him in prison first. Robert Reich, I love your Imagi-NATION!
Okay, let’s solve climate change! Meehan Crist studies and writes extensively about
the subject, and she’s an optimist! - I’m definitely not an optimist.
Okay, she’s…? - I think I’m more aligned with what John
Berger would call “undefeated despair.” Good enough. And coincidentally, the name
of the Full Frontal house band. So—Meehan’s Imagi-NATION?
- First, really large-scale investments in clean energy and technologies and infrastructure.
Second, I would create a federal jobs guarantee in areas like medicine, education, clean energy.
And third, I would nationalize the fossil fuel industry.
Wow, these are some crazy, radical ideas. - These aren’t these crazy, radical ideas.
If you take the interests of shareholders out of the equation, you sort of loosen up
that stranglehold that the industry has on our political system. You can really see a
clearer path forward to a net-zero emissions economy.
Excellent. And with our Imagi-NATION, everything is going to be okay.
- This is not going to be okay. But it can be less worse.
Good enough! Climate change, solved! And, as long as we’re nationalizing things...
- We can nationalize the pharmaceutical industry, and we should nationalize the pharmaceutical
industry. Nationalize big pharma? Isn’t that overly
strong medicine? Thank you. - What we do now is that we pay for—“we”
meaning taxpayers and patients—pay for the most critical research conducted on medicines.
But then we turn the results of that research over to drug companies, and U.S. law grants
the companies monopoly patents, meaning they can jack prices way up. Wow, that guy seems
evil! It’s like you invented lemonade, and paid for the ingredients for a kid’s lemonade
stand. - And then she would charge you $30 a glass
for the lemonade. And you need the lemonade or you die. Sorry,
Sims dude. Capitalism. Also, we desperately need new vaccines and antibiotics, but they’re
usually not profitable. So instead... - We have lots and lots of erectile dysfunction
drugs. But just to be clear, if we did nationalize
the pharmaceutical industry, there still would be erectile dysfunction drugs available.
- I think there would be, yes. Sold!
Okay. It’s vital that our Imagi-NATION is inclusive. Black Americans were systematically
blocked from the benefits deriving from World War II and the Depression. Is progress possible
now? - It is absolutely possible. Possible and
probable, not the same thing. Nikole Hannah-Jones just won a Pulitzer for
the 1619 project, a sweeping history of slavery and race in America. Why isn’t she more
hopeful, other than, you know, all the reasons? - When you look at the polling on this, white
Americans’ support for universal social programs decline if they think large numbers
of black Americans are going to benefit from them.
Yep! The ol’ “don’t rescue me from this fire if you’re gonna rescue him too” philosophy.
It’s dumb. - I think there has to come a point where
white people are willing to give up the psychic advantage that they believe they have from
whiteness and really truly believe that we are all Americans and we should take care
of each other. I have to say that now I am less optimistic
as well. - Okay, good. My work here is done.
Yes. Good outcomes aren’t guaranteed. But let’s end on this reminder from JFK:
- “Problems created by man, can be solved by man.”
Or, more realistically, by a woman, and then a man will run in and take
credit.