talking about white supremacy and how it's gone global
Back with us is Newsy's Senior investigative
correspondent Mark Greenblatt. And joining the
conversation from Atlanta is Doctor Heidi Bayrak from
the Global Project against Hate and Extremism. Thank
you both for sticking around to have this conversatio
You bet glad to be here. So Heidi This new podcast
uncovers important new developm in the evolution of
white extremism. What struck you listening to what Mark
and his team brought Well, I think what's most
important here is that Mark and his team have done an
incredible job at mapping out how global this
phenomenon is how it transcends borders reaches all
way from the United States to places like Russia and
also lays out how dangerous white supremacist ext
groups are. So this kind of documentation is actual
quite rare and I think that the podcast gives us a
window into a disturbing world, but one that we all
have to be aware of. So Heidi, Mark spoke to a leader
of the Russian imperial movement, the only white
supremacist group, the U.S. Has called an international
terror group. What is the U.S. Doing to battle this
threat And is it enough Well, I would have to say no,
it's not enough. And I think that interview in
particular is quite extraordinary because the Russi
imperial movement is the only group that's listed as a
essentially especially designat
organization. That's not one um of Islamic extremist
beliefs. And this is a person who people don't get to
hear from very often. However, the Russian Imperial
movement is not the only transnational white
supremacist terror network that out there. There are
quite a few others. And it's very, very important for
the american government to look into these
organizations and use all the tools at their disposal,
including the kind of designation that they used for
the Russian Imperial movement to try to combat these
organizations, the ideas they're spreading and the
violence that ultimately comes from those ideas. Well,
Mark, let me ask you that question to to get your take
on it. What is the U.S. Doing to battle them Well, look
you know, we we got for this podcast, one of one of the
you know, first on camera interviews that the Stat
Department had given got went to their headquarters,
talk to their top people. It's very clear to me that
they are very dedicated and battling this problem. The
issue is is that they're using the wrong tool box,
they're using a toolbox that was built to deal with the
threat from post 9 11, a threat that was coming, you
know, an Islamist threat largely. And they continue to
fight that fight and continue to use that tool box. And
and that that continues to be an important and an
important issue for them to be looking at. But they're
not they haven't picked up the other tool box. It's
like they haven't gone and gotten the updated tool
chest that that that can allow them uh to go after to
go after more white supremacist that are the kinds of
organizations Heidi is talking about, you know, in
particular, they feel like they're frozen uh in time
because they, because of free speech issues. But I
think I'd be really interested to hear what Heidi has
to say uh you know, to that issue. Yeah, well, I mean,
I have to say that there's no reason to be frozen
around those particular issues, right There's a
completely different legal regime that applies to
groups that are headquartered domestically in t
United States and those that are abroad, which which is
the same legal regime used to fight things like Al
Qaeda and ISis. And there's no reason why those
enhanced anti terrorism and counter terrorism tools
like tracking money, material support charges couldn
be used on groups that are white supremacists in natur
and headquartered outside the United States. Well, so
in the verified podcast, Mark, your team reveals old
conspiracy theories taking on new life in this
international network. A lot of these global white
supremacist groups really don't like the United States,
help us understand why that is. So a lot of this comes
down to the fact that they're trying touild. b
Oftentimes their own white ethno states where they can
literally run societies that are, you know, white
whites only white christians only the kinds of networks
that that that that we really got into in this podcast
You know, and so at the core of the United States, a
lot of Western allies are, are promoting multicultura
institutions. But listen, this also one of the most
important parts of the podcast. It's a key takeaway
from me because it allows you and I to actually do
something about this. And that is that if you become
aware of the code words that are being used, that stand
in for the United States, things like something l
the New World Order is something that we heard parrote
again and again and again from a lot of different
extremists in this network and when you, when, when I
was something I had never heard of. But when I started
looking into it more, it turns out it's almost akin to
a secret society where these people believe uh there
are people that are really running the world largel
Oftentimes this goes back to Israel, it goes back to
the United States, they think that they're under a
spell of sorts of a secret society that is making
people become more multicultura and it's not allowing
them to go ahead and create these white ethno societ
So as moms and his dad's and we we can if we hear these
words, New World Order and become aware of these other
conspiracy theories, we can see in our own communities
and in our own worlds, if people are are just maybe a
little bit off in a way, or if we hear these words, we
know we can actually go ahead and step in or call
someone call local law enforcem or or or or even
federal law enforcement to say, listen, I'm really
concerned and I'm hearing these things and I know
they're tied to these globally connected ideas. Maybe
somebody else should should sho take a look at this
Heidi here in the US We had January six. The verifie
podcast shows that Sweden has also become a hotspot of
white nationalism and that our government doesn't know
yet why that's the case. So what's happening on the far
right in Europe Yeah, well the far right is becoming
more radical mark. Just sort of alluded to these
conspiracy theories that are spreading. There's a lot
of mixing in of anti vax and anti mask sort of ideas
into this world. It's also becoming mo intreernationa
In other words, these white supremacist networks are
actually tied very closely toge and as has been the
case also in the US with these groups, we're seeing
more violence and that's really the scariest part about
this. There's a political movement that pushes
conspiracy theories. Often, jew put at the at the
back end of those conspiracy theories, which is a
frightening. But then we also have violence. So there's
tually baceen a storming of a parliament building in
the last couple of weeks violence related to anti COVID
anti, you know, mask rallies and overall there has been
just a really huge growth of far right populist
movements that at the end of the day when you pull all
the strings together is really being fueled by the
kinds of groups and people that this podcast examin
So then why does that matter to americans hearin
what's going on overseas Becaus we do not exist alone
in this space anymore Those same networks that are
growing and proliferating onlin and offline pose a
threat to americs coannspiracy theories. Um, and the
drive for white ethno states and this idea that white
people are being displaced in their home countries.
That's what motivated the shooting at the Pittsburgh
synagogue tree of life. That's what motivated what
happened at an el paso walmart. And so these things ar
just as much a problem for us as they are around the
world. And if we don't combat them and don't push back
and if the federal government doesn't do all that it
can on this front, we're gonna also experience the
follow out from all of this. So let me ask this
question to both of you, mark, your team has made it
clear in the podcast that extremist networks who wan
to build white christian societies are now reaching out
to Iran Syria and Islamic militants, what should
make of this. Well, this is one of the scarier things
that I think is still unfolding and we we still have a
lot more to learn about. But the very people that the
Russian Vorobiev introduced me uh you know, uh that
are part of this that he's saying are supporters of t
last crusade. They're also telling me that they are
actively meeting with other organizations that the
United States has designated as terrorists. Uh you know,
there's one guy you saw in the video leading off here
uh today as part of your show today vic that there'
one there's one guy that is trying to seek inroads with
the government of Iran and he's tweeting out photos of
himself that he says are right there in in Iranian
government buildings and right moments before he's
meeting with senior officials. So if you have white
supremacists who really at their core, I hate the
United States and hate Western democracies. You know,
and they're somehow finding allies with other
organizations or governments th also don't like the
United States, it becomes potentially a step larger of
of of an issue. And, you know, and I'd really love to
hear Heidi's take on this because it is something we go
into the in the podcast. But she she speaks very
eloquently to it there and I think could do so here.
Well we're gonna pick up this segment with Heidi after
the break. Um We do have to take a break right now. So
Mark, we're gonna let you go. But thank you for coming
on the show and for your insight and all the work that
you have put into this over the last year in this
podcast and sharing your expertise with us tonight. So
really appreciate it. Hey, than Todd of it's so good
to be here. Thanks so much for focusing on it in the
show. The special edition of the UAE continues after