- Are you struggling with your curriculum?
Let us give you some ideas.
(upbeat music)
Welcome to the Simply Charlotte Mason Podcast.
I'm Sonya Shafer.
Have you ever been in a situation where your student
seems to be stuck in a subject?
And you're wondering whether
you should switch curriculum there?
But then, you know that jumping around
to lots of different curriculum
has its own set of problems.
So how do you know when to stick with it
and when to switch?
That's what we want to talk about today.
And joining me in this discussion
is my friend, Amber O'Neal Johnston.
Amber, have you ever had that situation?
- Definitely.
I mean, there have been so many times
where I'm second guessing myself,
wondering if it's me, is it my kids, is it the curriculum?
So I think slowing down and being thoughtful about it
before just making rash decisions
has always been best for me.
- It seems like the discussion
has a couple of different components.
One is the actual curriculum.
Is that what is on trial here?
Or as we were talking earlier,
you mentioned some great things about,
it might just be lifestyle, season of life,
how you're using things,
what's going on in your family at the time.
So where should we start?
- Well, let's start with the lifestyle aspect of it.
And thinking about before we start digging
into the curriculum, I like to look at it and say,
"Is it the actual curriculum
that I need to question or evaluate?
Or is it kind of what's happening in my family
or in my home?"
So some areas, things that have happened for me
where I've been like, "What's going on? I don't know.
We need to change something."
Those are the times where we've been very busy,
out of the house all of the time, very scattered.
I'm rushing through lessons
and feeling angst and frustration and stress,
which is pouring over into what the children are feeling.
They're not getting an opportunity
to even assimilate the information that they're getting
or the reading that they're doing,
and we're just kind of rush, rush, rushing.
During those times, I feel like things start to feel
like they're falling apart.
And historically it hasn't for me been the curriculum
necessarily in those times.
It's more our schedule that needs to be reigned in
and rearranged so that we can actually
experience the fullness of the curriculum
that we're trying to use.
- That's a good point because Charlotte puts
such an emphasis on digestion,
that the ideas that children take in
need to be assimilated, digested,
and you have got to have time for that.
- There's no way around it.
You can't cut through it.
I think things sneak up on, I know for me,
things sneak up of a whole bunch of saying yes
to one thing here and one thing there,
and the next thing I know,
we're just in a frenzy.
- Overloaded. Yes, good point. Good point.
What are some other lifestyle situations that you've seen
that might affect how the curriculum,
how it is effective in the children's lives?
- I think whatever season of life that you happen to be in
is very different, say even when I'm pregnant,
or when I've been pregnant and not feeling well,
feeling very groggy or not sleeping well with a newborn,
the multiple stages of my children and toddlers underfoot
versus having people who are all independent readers,
who needs a diaper change.
I mean, during each one of these seasons,
I've felt that we need different things from the curriculum
and we're able to use them in different ways.
A lot of it hinges on my availability
to be present in the room physically,
that I'm not off chasing someone or changing a diaper
or doing something,
all important things that have to be done.
So whether I'm in the room physically,
and also how alert and engaged I am mentally
based on the amount of rest I've had,
or what else I have going on with maybe babies
or little ones at the time.
- So what I'm hearing is that it's very important
when you're in a situation where
things just aren't jelling, just aren't working right,
you're struggling, what's important
is to try and pinpoint why you're struggling.
Is it the lifestyle, or is it the curriculum?
And moving to the curriculum side of things,
I think we need to dig even deeper into that why.
Yes, maybe we say, "Well, the lifestyle hasn't changed any.
We're doing the time, we're putting in,
we're there with the children,
we're doing things as we should."
But if you say, "It must be the curriculum that's bad,"
before you throw it out, I think it helps to pinpoint,
"Okay, what about the curriculum is not working?"
In my mind, it's kind of like going to the doctor
and saying, "I'm sick, heal me."
- With no discussion of symptoms or how you're feeling.
Yeah, this is true. - Yeah.
So I think we need to figure out
what symptoms we're seeing in the curriculum
coming at it from that angle.
Really you need to decide,
is it the content of the curriculum that is not working?
Or is it the method, the methodology in the curriculum?
- I think that's a big one, you know.
In terms of content, of course,
if the content is harmful, or I find that a lot of things
we're reading simply aren't true,
things like that, it's very easy to see
that maybe we want to move on.
But I find that generally, it's not that clear cut.
And a lot of times, for me, it's the methodology,
how the lessons are being presented.
And so I think there the first thing to consider
is, "Do I understand the methodology
and am I faithfully implementing it?"
Because I think obviously a curriculum
is designed by someone else, and we might be like-minded,
but have I taken the time to really dig in
and understand what the scope and sequence is,
and what the ideas behind
the way the lessons are presented.
And am I able to bring that to the table, to my family?
- So using it the way it was intended to be used,
the way it was written.
It'd be like, you know, using a table fork
to dig in the garden. - Right. Right.
- It's not intended for that.
So yeah, we've got to figure out
how it was intended to be used.
Along with that, then, with my special needs daughter,
I'm often looking at how fast or how slow
the curriculum goes, and is it fitting her?
So if the curriculum seems to be going too fast,
you don't have to switch curriculum.
You can just, "Okay, we're going to take this little bit.
Now we're going to stop here, cause she needs more practice.
And we're going to supplement."
So we're going to slow down and supplement as we go.
Then if the curriculum seems to be going too slow,
that's not usually my problem with my daughter.
But with my other kids sometimes it was.
A lot of times you can omit the repetition
that's built in. - Yes.
- And some curriculum, hopefully
no Charlotte Mason curriculum,
but some curriculum might just have busy work
thrown in there.
- Yes, and recognizing that and being able to eliminate it.
Kind of take maybe what's good about the lessons
and kind of set aside what's not,
I think is a really important point,
because as we talked about understanding
how it was intended to be used,
part of that is so that you can use it that way.
But I think part of that understanding
is so that you understand what you can and can't change
without losing the integrity of the lessons
as well. - Good point, yes.
- So yes, being able to speed up.
You talked about supplementing.
I'm the queen of supplementing.
It's not always because there's something wrong with it,
but I want to build in the things that delight my family,
maybe special interests that we have,
things that are important to us.
So I would look at that and I wouldn't necessarily
say there's something wrong with the curriculum,
but I would say that there is something missing
that probably only I could supply.
And I think that's okay too.
- Yes, adding in the, as you said, the delight
that will make the curriculum go to the next level.
- That's right.
- No, I think this brings up an interesting point.
To many of us, we're looking for the magic curriculum,
that is the perfect thing to fit all of us
or to fit my family.
And really, I don't know
that there is such a thing out there.
- No, and I think just trying to get as close as you can
to aligning with what you want for your family
is really the goal, at least that is for me.
And I know from the very beginning,
I wanted to add other things in,
not necessarily on top of.
Sometimes I'm replacing things a little bit.
But yeah I want to add a little spice here,
a little sugar there, and no other person,
no other mom can say for sure exactly
what will spark that delight and curiosity in your home.
So I think that looking for any curriculum
to be the end-all-be-all for everything that you want
is going to be a little bit disappointing at times.
So I think expectations go a long way
when we're making these decisions.
- Yes, and along with, as you said, supplementing in,
sometimes the way things are worded
seems too advanced for our kids.
I know this is a big question I get sometimes is,
"This book was difficult for my kids to comprehend.
Do we just keep pushing through and hope
that they will adjust and they will tweak their brain,
and pretty soon it will start making sense?"
For example, Shakespeare. - Yes.
That's a good example.
- That can be a leap sometimes, but when you get into it,
I was just watching "Julius Caesar" last night,
and as you get into it, the lines make more sense
the longer you are immersed in them.
- Yes.
- So how do we know whether that's going to happen
for our kids or if they're just...
if we've pushed it as far as we should,
and we need to bail and use another book.
- That's really difficult.
You know, Charlotte Mason talks about
a mother's intuition at times.
And sometimes I think that we can maybe think
that's not scientific enough.
But at times I really do rely on that.
I'm looking and saying, "Have we been faithful
to the lessons, giving it time?"
Because like you, Shakespeare is a perfect example.
The first time I sat down to read that with my kids,
they were like, "What are you talking about?
I don't know anything."
You know, they were laughing and giggling.
Even I was laughing because it was funny.
The lack of understanding was funny, but we just kept at it.
And I think that's an example where we took smaller chunks
than what the lessons we were following had laid out
to be read each time.
We took it really small little baby steps.
And I said, "You know, we may not get through as many plays,
but we're going to enjoy the ones we do."
And now they talk about them all the time.
And I think that my kids would tell you that
they think it's funny that they didn't understand it all
in the beginning.
So yes, you are sometimes relying on your intuition
and what you know about your children, and the environment,
and trying to seek to understand whether continuing on
could be helpful or harmful.
- And I think with that women's, mother's intuition,
where would you say the line would be
in challenging our children versus frustrating our children?
- That's so good.
I spend a lot of time, I think,
considering that question, right?
- Maybe it's different for each child.
- I think so. I think it's different for each child.
I also think that, I try to evaluate what are the behaviors.
If I see someone crying and getting very upset,
I want to stop and talk to them.
"What are you upset about?"
One of my children, she will get very upset
if something doesn't come to her right away.
And it's because she is used to things
coming to her right away.
In that case I'll slow down. We'll talk about it.
But I do continue on because she always,
right on the other side of those tears, is a breakthrough.
And I just know that as her mother, that's what I've seen.
If I don't continue on, she'll always stop
any time she has a sense of frustration
that something didn't come to her right away.
Now I have another child who, when her tears,
her tears mean overwhelm.
She is crying because she cannot keep up,
and now she feels bad about herself.
She's not meeting my expectation.
She feels bad about herself.
There is not a breakthrough on the other side of that wall.
So I think that trying to figure out,
and it takes discussion. "Let's talk about this.
Let's stop for today," sometimes,
"and let's talk about what it is that you're feeling.
I see you have some big emotions. Let's talk about that."
And I think that sometimes they do need to be uncomfortable,
but not always.
So is it discomfort or is it pain?
For me, I want to avoid pain.
I don't think there's a place for that in our home.
But a little discomfort, because I know
what's on the other side of that for you,
then I'm like, I'm kind of giving myself
a little high five there.
(laughing)
- That's so wise and so important about knowing each child.
And that's one of the blessings of homeschooling.
If they were in a classroom with all these other kids,
they could be pushed to that pain point
and no one would even know it. - I know.
- Or they could not be pushed enough
and they would always expect things to come easily.
So, so important. - Very good.
- One more thing I think is important
about the whole curriculum choice aspect here in discussion
is if you do decide you want to change curriculum,
I think it is not wise to just
say, "Oh, let's see, that one."
I think it would be smart to sit down and say,
"Okay, these are the things that I have identified
that are not working about the curriculum
I'm currently using, or the book I'm currently using.
What would the ideal one look like?"
And write down the characteristics, or the qualities,
or the features that you're looking for,
so that when we get frustrated,
when we have the emotional surges happening,
we don't just potentially jump out of the frying pan
into the fire.
- Yes. That's such a good point.
I think like creating an outline
of what your expectations are,
what it is that you feel would be,
not the perfect curriculum,
because we talked about that probably doesn't exist,
but the best thing for your family.
And then, you know, I think of it kind of like
when we're buying a house.
You know you want certain type of pantry,
or you know you want to be able to park inside the garage,
or whatever is important to your family,
having that in mind,
and then going and looking and evaluating curriculum
according to what you know your needs are,
and being careful not to look over at your neighbor,
because I think there's, I know I've had danger in that too.
I'm thinking, "Well, that looks better than what I'm doing."
That might be true, but it looks better for her,
but it might not be better for me.
So I think having that outline of things to look for,
things you're desiring will help you stay true
in your decision making, if you do decide to change.
- And just like looking for a house,
you might not find everything on your list in one place.
So you need to be able to identify
what are the non-negotiables, and what are the,
"Well, that would be nice to add in."
- Definitely. I think that's great advice.
I think that when you are careful
and thoughtful in that way,
it'll keep you from skipping around
and kind of having a haphazard approach
to curriculum or lesson planning, curriculum planning.
But it'll also ensure that you are using something
that works for your family.
- Thanks. - You're welcome.
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