>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY!
WELCOME BACK!
FOLKS, MY FIRST GUEST IS AN ACADEMY AWARD-WINNING ACTRESS
YOU KNOW FROM "JERRY MacGUIRE," "COLD MOUNTAIN," AND "BRIDGET
JONES'S DIARY."
HER NEW FILM IS "JUDY."
>> WHAT?
>> THE FIGHTS OVER CUSTODY, YOUR CHILDREN LIVING AWAY FROM YOU.
>> I MEAN, IF I'M A TERRIBLE MOTHER THEY LIKE TO WRITE ABOUT,
WELL, YOU TELL ME HOW I END UP WITH SUCH INCREDIBLE KIDS.
>> BUT I WASN'T SUGGESTING-- >> WELL, NO, EVERYBODY SUGGESTS
THINGS, LIKE I'M-- LIKE I'M NOT A REAL PERSON, BUT I AM.
YOU UNDERSTAND, I'M ONLY JUDY GARLAND FOR AN HOUR A NIGHT.
THE REST OF THE TIME I'M-- I'M PART OF A FAMILY.
I JUST WANT WHAT EVERYBODY WANTS.
I SEEM TO HAVE A HARDER TIME GETTING IT.
>> Stephen: PLEASE WELCOME RENEE ZELLWEGER!
♪ ♪ ♪
( "OVER THE RAINBOW" )
>> THANKS SO MUCH!
HI!
WOW!
I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE IN A LONG TIME!
>> Stephen: NO, WELCOME BACK.
>> WOW, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> Stephen: THE ED SULLIVAN THEATER.
>> YLOVELY.
COLD AS I RECALL.
( LAUGHTER ).
>> Stephen: YOU GOTTA KEEP IT FRESH GEE, KEEP EVERYBODY WEAK,
RIGHT?
>> Stephen: EXACTLY, WE TREAT OUR AUDIENCE AND OUR GUESTS LIKE
PRODUCE.
THE ENTIRE BUILDING IS LIKE ONE BIG CRISPER DRAWER.
>> I'M FEELING THAT.
I'M FEELING IT.
>> Stephen: GOOD.
WELL, THIS MOVIE, YOUR PERFORMANCE IS GETTING RIOUTOUS
ACCOLADES.
THE CLIPS I HAVE SEEN ARE INCREDIBLY BEAUTIFUL, IT'S AN
INCREDIBLE TRANSFORMATION INTO THIS ICONIC AMERICAN CULTURAL
FIGURE-- WORLD FIGURE, REALLY.
HOW FAMILIAR WERE YOU WITH JUDY GARLAND'S LIFE BEFORE YOU GOT IN
THIS ROLE?
WHAT KIND OF RESEARCH DID YOU DO?
>> WELL, I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS CHAPTER IN
HER LIFE THAT THE FILM FOCUSES ON, WHICH IS TOWARD THE END OF
HER LIFE, THE LAST FEW MONTHS BEFORE SHE PASSED.
I HAD NO IDEA THE STRUGGLE THAT SHE WAS EXPERIENCING, AND THE
CHALLENGES SHE WAS GRAPPLING WITH.
AND I DON'T KNOW.
I JUST-- I DON'T KNOW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW.
I MEAN, SHE SEEMS TO BE FROZEN IN TIME.
AND THAT MOMENT WHEN SHE WAS IMMACULATE AND, YOU KNOW, SHE
CARVED HER PLACEAT THE TABLE OF AMERICAN ICONS.
AND, BOY, SHE DESERVED IT, DIDN'T SHE?
SOMETHING ELSE, AMERICAN TREASURE.
I DID WHAT MOST PEOPLE DO-- I WENT DOWN THE RABBIT HOLE OF
YOUTUBE AND STAYED THERE AS LONG AS I COULD, YOU KNOW, UNTIL
SUN-UP.
>> Stephen: THE INTERNET AS WE CALL IT.
YOU CLICK ON ONE CLIP.
ANYTHING THAT SPOKE TO YOU PARTICULARLY FOR THIS TIME
PERIOD?
>> WELL, DID LOVE-- I DID LOVE WATCHING "THE JUDY GARLAND
SHOW," BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF WONDERFUL OUTTAKES NOW.
>> Stephen: THIS IS FROM THAT PERIOD OF TIME.
>> OH, YEAH, THERE IT IS!
>> Stephen: THERE'S JUDY FROM THAT PERIOD OF TIME.
IT'S INCREDIBLE.
AND THEN THIS IS YOU.
>> OH, WOW.
( APPLAUSE )
WELL, THANKS!
THAT'S VERY SWEET.
WELL AND, YOU KNOW, THE INTERNET IS A FABULOUS RESEARCH TOOL,
ISN'T IT?
>> Stephen: I'VE HEARD GOOD THINGS, YEAH.
>> YEAH.
NO, I JUST IMMERSED MYSELF IN, YOU KNOW, THE TREASURES OF HER
LEGACY FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
A LOT OF BOOKS, A LOT OF BIOGRAPHIES, LISTENED TO HER
MUSIC A LOT OF TIME.
WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL AUDIO RECORDINGS THAT WERE PART OF
SOMEBODY'S PERSONAL ARCHIVE THAT JUST BECAME PUBLIC BECAUSE OF
THIS INTERNET.
I'M VERY GRATEFUL, THANK YOU.
>> Stephen: SHE'S AN ICON NOT JUST OF MUSIC BUT SORT OF SHE'S
AN AVATAR OF A CERTAIN LEVEL OF PERSONAL SUFFERING THAT GETS
HIDDEN BEHIND THE SPARKLE OF SHOW BUSINESS.
>> YEAH, SURE.
>> Stephen: SO SHE SORT OF HAS, FOR MANY PEOPLE, BEEN A
SORT OF FELLOW SPIRIT OF UNSHARABLE GRIEF OR ANXIETY OR
DEPRESSION.
AND WERE THERE THINGS THAT YOU LEARNED ABOUT HER LIFE THAT
SURPRISED YOU?
>> UHM-- >> Stephen: AS YOU DUG DEEPER.
>> WELL, IT WOULD NEVER OCCUR TO ME THAT A PERSON WHO HAD WORKED,
AT THAT LEVEL FOR, AT THE TIME-- THE SETTING OF THIS FILM, 44
YEARS, I SUPPOSE-- THAT SHE WOULD BE FACING FINANCIAL
HARDSHIP.
>> Stephen: NO PLACE TO LIVE, RIGHT?
>> NO PLACE TO LIVE.
SHE DIDN'T HAVE A HOME.
SHE WAS STRUGGLING BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, THE CIRCUMSTANCES
AROUND HER DIVORCE AND, YOU KNOW, FINDING EMPLOYMENT WAS
CHALLENGING FOR HER BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I GUESS THE THINGS THAT
PEOPLE LIKE TO WRITE ABOUT HER WERE NOT SO KIND AND MADE IT
VERY DIFFICULT FOR HER TO TAKE CARE OF HERSELF.
>> Stephen: AND SHE HAD BEEN ONE OF THE BIGGEST STARS IN THE
WORLD.
>> YES, FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
AND THEN SOME OF THESE ICONIC FILMS THAT HAVE SORT OF SHAPED
AMERICAN PUBLIC CULTURE.
>> Stephen: AND IN THIS CLIP AND OTHER CLIPS THAT I'VE SEEN,
YOU GET A SENSE THAT SHE IS STRUGGLING WITH WHO SHE IS AS A
PERSON AND WHO THE AUDIENCE WANTS HER TO BE, THAT ONE HOUR A
DAY, SHE SAYS.
"ONLY ONE HOUR A DAY AM I JUDY GARLAND.
THE REST OF IT I'M JUST WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE WANTS."
DO YOU AS A STAR EVER FEEL THAT TENSION OF THERE IS SOMETHING
THE AUDIENCE WANTS ME TO BE, AND THERE IS THE LIFE I WANT TO
LIVE, AND I DON'T WANT TO DISAPPOINT THE AUDIENCE, BUT I'M
NOT ENTIRELY SURE THE DIRECTION OF MY LIFE IS THE DIRECTION OF
THE PERSONA THAT THEY SEE.
>> WELL, I UNDERSTAND THE GULF BETWEEN THE PERSONA AND THE
TRUTH OF A HUMAN EXPERIENCE, CERTAINLY.
AND IT'S INTERESTING, BECAUSE SOMETIMES I'LL SEE SOME THINGS,
AND I'LL THINK, "OH, I NEVER MET THAT PERSON," THE PERSONA.
>> Stephen: THE THINGS THAT PEOPLE WRITE ABOUT YOUR PERSON.
>> YES, YES.
BUT I GUESS BECAUSE I'M NOT A LIVE PERFORMER, I DON'T-- I
DON'T SORT OF SHARE THAT EXPERIENCE OF EXPECTATIONS.
AND I'M NOT REALLY AWARE.
I FORGET THAT IT EXISTS.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'M BUSY.
I GOTTA GET THE DOGS THEIR MEDICINE EVERY DAY, AND I HAVE A
YOUNG NIECE AND NEPHEW AND, YOU KNOW, I'M BUSY.
SO I DON'T REALLY-- I'M NOT AWARE OF THE EXPERIENCE OF FAME
UNTIL IT BECOMES NECESSARY THAT I PAY ATTENTION TO IT, YOU KNOW.
>> Stephen: RIGHT.
FAME IT A TOOL, I ALWAYS THOUGHT, THAT GETS YOU MORE
WORK.
>> THAT'S INTERESTING.
>> Stephen: YES.
THAT'S ALL IT'S GOOD FOR, REALLY.
>> POSSIBLY, YEAH, ACCESS TO LEARNING THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT
NOT OTHERWISE HAVE OCCASION TO, EVEN EXPERIENCES.
I MEAN, IT'S REALLY-- IT IS FANTASTIC IN THAT WAY.
>> Stephen: AND IF YOU'RE JUST FAMOUS ENOUGH, THE GUYS ON THEIR
COLLEGE INTERNSHIPS AT, LIKE, THE PLANT STORE WILL ACTUALLY
BRING THE TURF OUT TO YOUR CAR FOR YOU.
>> IS THAT TRUE?
>> Stephen: YEAH, THAT'S WHAT IT'S FOR.
THAT'S WHAT FAME IS REALLY FOR.
SOMEONE ELSE BRINGS THE MULCH TO YOUR CAR IS THE IDEA.
>> I WASN'T MADE AWARE OF THAT.
THIS IS A VERY EXCITING NIGHT FOR ME.
THANK YOU.
>> Stephen: CHECK THE BACK OF YOUR "FAME" CARD.
IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU GET FOR BEING FAMOUS.
>> WHERE HAVE I BEEN?
SNRT MOVIE UNDERSCORES THAT GARLAND IS THE VICTIM OF WHAT
WAS CALLED "THE HOLLYWOOD SYSTEM."
SHE STARTED WORKING WHEN-- HOW OLD WAS SHE?
>> OH, GOSH, I GOT THIS NUMBER IT'S FIRST TIME ON STAGE WAS
TWO.
>> Stephen: TWO YEARS OLD.
>> SINGING "JINGLE BELLS," OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
WHEN THE MUSIC STOPPED, SHE STARTED AGAIN, AND SHE JUST
ADORED THE LAUGHTER FROM THE AUDIENCE SO MUCH, THAT SHE JUST
WANTED TO KEEP ON SINGING UNTIL THEY HAD TO CARRY HER--
LITERALLY CARRY HER OFF.
>> Stephen: HOW OLD WERE YOU THE FIRST TIME YOU PERFORMED?
>> I HAD A, YOU KNOW, VERY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE.
>> Stephen: I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU'RE IN THE STUDIO SYSTEM
OF LOUIS B. MAYER.
I'M JUST CURIOUS THE FIRST TIME YOU GOT ON STAGE.
>> WELL, I ADORED-- I STILL ADORE MY BROTHER, SORRY, DREW,
PAST TENSE.
I ADORED MY BROTHER, AND HE WAS A DRAMA KID IN JUNIOR HIGH, AND
I DECIDED THAT, THAT LOOKED LIKE A GREAT IDEA.
SO TO HIS HORROR I JOINED THE DRAMA CLUB, AND HE QUIT.
>> Stephen: BECAUSE HIS SISTER SHOWED JIEWP OH, ABSOLUTELY.
DON'T BIG BROTHERS WANT TO GET AS FAR FROM THEIR LITTLE SISTERS
AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN?
THAT WAS MY EXPERIENCE ANYWAY.
I HOPE IT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S EXPERIENCE.
( LAUGHTER )
WAS-- AS I WAS SAYING, SHE WAS A VICTIM OF THE HOLLYWOOD SYSTEM,
WHICH COULD BE VERY ABUSIVE, ESPECIALLY TO WOMEN.
IN THE LAST FEW YEARS THERE'S BEEN A RECKONING IN THE WAY
HOLLYWOOD TREATS WOMEN.
DO YOU REALLY THINK THINGS ARE BETTER NOW?
OR DO YOU THINK THIS IS A SUSTAINING, LASTING CHANGE THAT
WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW?
>> I THINK IT'S INEVITABLE, REALLY.
AND NOT JUST IN HOLLYWOOD BUT FOR WOMEN I 99 ANY INDUSTRY.
I MEAN, IT'S INEVITABLE BECAUSE THE YOUNG WOMEN WHO ARE COMING
OF AGE TODAY HAVE NEVER REALLY KNOWN A TIME WHEN THERE HASN'T
BEEN A CHANCELLOR MERKEL, WHEN THERE HASN'T BEEN A BARBARA
WALTERS, WHEN THERE HASN'T BEEN, YOU KNOW, A PRIME MINISTER
JACINDA.
THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOUNG WOMEN TODAY.
AND IN THE INEQUITIES WOMEN BEFORE HAVE CONTENDED WITH DOTE
REALLY MAKE SENSE TO THEM.
AND WE'RE HAVING THE CONVERSATION, AND SO THAT'S A
STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, INNOCENT SNNT IT?
>> Stephen: YEAH.
WE HAVE TO TAKE A BREAK.
PLEASE STICK AROUND.
AND YOU STICK AROUND, TOO, BECAUSE WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH
MORE RENEE ZELLWEGER.