Most of the world is run by dictators
But have you ever wondered what a dictator was like
Before he became a dictator?
Welcome to China Uncensored, I’m Chris Chappell.
The Chinese Communist Party is following the strategy of Imperial Japan in World War 2,
right before it attacked America.
These are the Pacific Island nations,
strategically located for China to project military power against Taiwan
or even someday against the US.
At the center of China’s campaign is Solomon Islands.
Through bribery and corruption, China helped set up this man, Manasseh Sogavare as Prime
Minister.
But given that he’s postponing elections,
You can see he’s more of a dictator than anything else.
Sogavare signed a secret security pact with China that could one day bring a Chinese military
base to the islands.
And his riot police are now being trained by China.
Now if you’ve been watching, you know we started a crowdfunding campaign to bring Sogavare’s
nemesis, pro-democracy leader Daniel Suidani to Washington DC, to warn the US government
about China’s dangerous influence.
If you need a refresher on that, I’ll leave a link to that episode below.
And joining Mr. Suidani in DC was his policy advisor, Celsus Talifilu.
They’re both from the same province in Solomon Islands and share many of the same Christian
values and concerns about the Chinese Communist Party.
But the interesting thing about Mr. Talifilu is that before becoming Mr. Suidani’s advisor,
he was Sogavare’s advisor.
And he was actually there for much of Sogavare’s rise to power.
And he saw all the skeletons in the closet.
I interviewed Celsus Talifilu when we were in DC about his time with Sogavare, and how
CCP elite capture actually works.
Well, thank you for joining me today.
It is indeed a pleasure for me to be able to see you in person.
I'm a great fan of yours online, and I've been educating myself a lot about the things
that have been discussed in your shows and the humor that is developed in the platform,
which I find it very, very educational.
Oh, thank you for that.
But I'm really curious.
So you used to work for Sogavare, correct?
Right, yeah.
I used to work for him during his ... He's the Prime Minister twice, so I work under
his leadership.
Then he lost through a motion of no confidence and I work with another Prime Minister and
then him again this time.
So I work with him under his current leadership.
I'm curious.
What's your sense of the man?
He has a personality of not being very interactive.
He keeps to him a lot, keeps to himself.
And I think he is not the person who is outgoing.
He's very reserved in the ways he interact with even the politicians.
Of course, he says he got involved in a lot of jobs, but just looking at how he engage
with other members of Parliament, he always has that reservation of staying by himself
and allowing people to go to him.
So are you surprised at all about his turn towards authoritarianism of working with the
Chinese Communist Party?
I'm not surprised at all.
I see it coming.
That kind of behavior and the conversations that I've heard within the corridors of the
Prime Minister Office when I was there, it's just a fulfillment, I suppose.
Well, I know the Solomon Islands was supposed to have elections this year, but that's now
changed.
Can you tell us what's going on there?
Yes.
There has been an amendment to the Constitution and those that have supported the amendment
end up being paid by Chinese money and that's being all published.
Thirty-nine members of Parliament of the 50 members of Parliament, that 39 who made up
the two-thirds requirement for the amendment of the Constitution to move the life of Parliament
for the next seven months have been rewarded for their actions.
And what was the excuse again for delaying the election?
The popular excuse that was given was because Solomon Islands will have these two big events
happening in one financial year, the election, the national general election, and the Pacific
Game.
Pacific Game is a game that all the Pacific Island countries participate in.
It's like a mini Olympic for the Pacific region.
So the argument that was put forward by the current Prime Minister and the government
is this is very costly to handle the two events, two big events in a year.
Therefore, let's allow the sport to take place and amend the Constitution to delay Parliament
for another seven months.
That's very convenient for Sogavare.
Of course.
And what I couldn't believe was when Australia heard about this, the response was, "Oh, you're
short on money?
We'll give you some extra money for the Games.
Not for the election, but for the Games."
That's right.
Australia, first of all, supported the Games.
And then when the public at large was raising consents before the amendment was made, just
the next day, Australia announced that they can help with the election but it was too
late.
The amendment has already been [through] parliament, but surprisingly they have supported the Games
first.
That's incredible.
I'm curious.
How did you end up working with Mr. Suidani?
When did you first hear about him, what he was doing to stand up to the Chinese Communist
Party?
Like going from Sogavare to his major opponents, how did that happen?
Yeah, what happened was I was personally of the opinion that when I was with the Prime
Minister when all these things happened, it was not honest.
It was done using institution of the state that should produce good things for the people
but this being in a way hijacked by political interests.
So as a Malaitan, as an indigenous of Solomon Islander, having read about a lot of things
to do with China, there is that concern with the wealth of knowledge I've had with governments
and things like that, I think the best way for me is to help protect the province that
I'm from.
That's why I end up with Suidani until now.
And what do you think will happen if Sogavare and the Chinese Communist Party are able to
silence you and Mr. Suidani?
I think if they challenge us and nothing happens, that would be a big victory for them and the
system that they support, in this case, communism.
So if they silence us and nobody comes to our aid or nobody stood out and said that's
not on, there is possibility and highly likely they will spread the same thing in the region,
in this case, the Pacific region, because they feel they have a strong foothold in the
Solomons and they can have the place as a stepping place to do other things in the region,
even against bigger countries like Australia, New Zealand, or even United States.
I think what's really important in this is even if Sogavare gets kicked out of office,
the real problem isn't Sogavare.
It's the Chinese Communist Party and, in particular, the money China spreads around.
How do you think in the Solomon Islands and elsewhere, people can go after the money,
and particularly in the Solomon Islands, where do you cut off that supply?
I think most of our banking systems or where big money will be put would be in our neighboring
countries like Zealand and Australia.
And they, I believe, have more sophisticated ways of finding out who is putting money where
or investing where.
So that would be the place to take action in support of what is happening in the Solomons,
especially money that may not be clean.
So they should ensure that whatever comes to them or whatever is invested in them from
other places, maybe in Solomons or from other countries, has to be clean.
Not just taking in money for the sake of taking money, but make sure what is invested in Australia
and New Zealand has to be clean, has to have to have clean sources, and not just helping
themselves to have to manage deposits in their bank accounts in Australia or New Zealand.
And is Australia or New Zealand doing anything?
Well so far in terms of what has been happening with Malaita until now, and the things that
have happened at Solomons, they have been supporting the normal way of doing things.
The government is the government.
You have to support the government of the day.
So I think that's what been happening.
Hopefully, there are other support through other NGOs, things like that that would filter
through to the people other than the government.
And as I understand it, Sogavare's nephew is a convicted criminal and lives in Australia.
Is that correct?
So Robson Djokovic's records have shown in Australia that he has had criminal records
back in Australia.
And one other interesting thing is he is a citizen of Australia, but he has broken the
laws in the Solomons in terms of the Electoral Act.
So he has taken the matter to court.
He appealed this matter, he keep on losing, but surprise, surprise, he's still with the
Prime Minister's office.
So, in fact, at one stage I actually asked one of the Australian officials, "Why are
you keeping a criminal in our place?
He should be kicked out like you did with Moti."
And he has this long explanation about procedures and whatnot.
I see.
When we were in DC together, we had a chance to talk to some Uyghur women who had families
in the concentration camps or were in the concentration camps themselves.
And I think one thing we noticed is there are some disturbing parallels between what
happened in Xinjiang, East Turkistan and what's happening now in the Solomon Islands.
Exactly.
I was shocked actually, really shocked about when one of them was explaining the situation,
you know the friendliness, the acceptance of the promises that was made to the people-
At the beginning.
Yeah, at the beginning.
The promises of developments.
Yes, that's exactly what is happening at Solomons.
So for me it was like, "Wow, this is something real, something that these people experience
in their places."
And, down the line, things then differently.
And one of the victims that explained the situation with his father, you know, spent
his life saving the country, China, then ended up being not supported or been even criminalized
at the end.
So those parallels, those parallels, indigenous communities, friendliness, acceptance.
That's exactly what is happening in Solomons now.
Money, not principles.
Development, not carefulness.
So that is exactly what is it.
Because of the story yesterday, that parallel is real for us in the Solomons.
It's amazing what Chinese money can cost.
To be honest, I was sitting there and I said that of all things, this is certainly ... this
is beyond evil.
How could another human being does these things to another human being?
After all, we have only one life to live.
Why should we destroy another person's life for some other things apart from people need
... I suppose humanity is better off helping each other, not destroying each other.
I hope that's something you get to ask Sogavare when you see him next.
Well, what is next for you?
Well, I'm actually vying to be a politician.
I will be standing for election in the Solomons in my constituency.
And that has been made known to the people.
I felt the only way or one of the ways to save the country is to get into office and
be part of a solution rather than be part of the problem.
Are you expecting any major backlash from all your activism?
Of course, of course.
That would even make me bolder because when there is goodness, there is always evil.
And I have had the experience of if I'm still alive and breathe, I'll continue.
Amen.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Congratulations on everything.
Thank you very much for meeting you in person.
It's been a pleasure indeed.
Thank you for watching.
Remember, we couldn’t have brought Mr. Suidani and Mr. Talifilu to Washington without support
from viewers like you.
This entire show would not be possible without support from viewers like you.
So if you can, for just a dollar an episode, you can ensure China Uncensored continues
to fight the good fight by supporting us on patreon.com/chinauncensored.
Once again I’m Chris Chappell, and thank you.