Shane Stanley, Filmmaker/Author/Instructor: I’d rather have four or five films under my
belt in five years than talking about making one that's just me personally.
Film Courage: When you were making movies with Charlie Sheen, at that time
how much did it cost to make them and how much were the distributors paying you for the movies?
Shane: Back when we were doing those we were an independent company that decided to do its own
content. It's the early working with some of the majors but getting a real taste of
independent filmmaking. We were really in a fortunate situation because Charlie was a
movie star. He had just come off things like Terminal Velocity and Shadow Conspiracy and
The Arrival and his incredible catalog of work. We had the Avi Lerners
coming to us saying we'll give you up to 10-to-12 million to go make a movie.
They weren't distributors that were buying them. They were people like Avi that obviously
(smart businessman) he would cast it with real players and sell it at Cannes [Film Festival] or
AFM [American Film Market] before we even shot a foot of film. I remember we went to Cannes
for the 50th anniversary and they put us up at the Hôtel du Cap and we had a
press conference and it was mock artwork of the film with Charlie Sheen, Mark Dacascos,
Joe Lando, Martin Sheen and they pre-sold that thing globally I'm sure for a lot more
than they gave us to make it. The film did very well. Miramax Dimension actually ended
up picking it up and they made some good TV deals on it. We made the film for 12,
we actually made it for nine because we shot it in Arizona. At the time they had a 30 percent rebate
so we got I think 3 million back in actual cash rebate (wasn't tax incentives, it was cash rebate)
and that's how movies used to be made especially in such a huge home video market. That was
the height of Blockbuster and Hollywood video and all those great brick and mortar
Ma and Pa stores were just they they were printing money because of the home video market and DVDs
coming out blu-ray hadn't hit yet so they were giving us a lot of money. We were making some of
these indie films for eight to 12 million. Those were good times, those were really good times.
Film Courage: How much easier was it to make movies in the 90’s?
Shane: Well I don't know if it was easier? When we were making them the budgets were big
we were able to kick out a couple a year and again the home video market was so was so big you
were able to get territories to put up a lot of money around the globe for the home video market
tv rights foreign theatrical things have changed substantially I find it easier to make movies now
because we're able to make movies for a lot less I mean we're shooting all those movies on Panavision
35 millimeter cameras that camera package to rent that film to to buy and process and tell us
any and convert to video digital format so you can cut it on your AVIDS which back then cost $180,000
it movies were expensive back then we weren't making them for cheap it's just
and we were doing independent films and I cringe today when I hear about independent movies that
are like five million dollars I think that's no indy five million dollars in today's economy be
great that the toys that we have that we can make movies for but back then we were doing the indies
for eight to 12 million what should a filmmaker use to determine a budget whatever he can get
and I mean that I I'm a big proponent of what's your budget who cares I so many of us it's it's
about a budget you can get it broken down six ways till sunday ten different line producers
break it down budget it you can use all your different pay scales with the unions and whatnot
that's all that's all going to be black and white but at the end of the day what's stopping
you from getting the movie made so for me I don't think about what a budget has to be I think about
I always put my investor first I always think what's going to put he or she at the lowest risk
how do we execute this to the best of our ability so we can out kick our punt coverage we can now
punch our weight class puts put it all on the screen and wow people for a fraction of what
people think we actually made it for that's just my mentality doesn't mean it's right for everybody
so when I look at a project when an investor calls me and says we're ready to go or I call
them and say I'm ready to go what's your comfort level for the next season and they tell me
I say okay this is how much we have what can we do with this I go into it bass backwards and I just
I watch filmmakers time and time again not get movies made because they've set some
some budget in their mind and unless you're being given the money by a studio
or a network who is really governing that that's what the budget has to be my father
tried for four years to get desperate passage made he had a million dollar budget back in 1980
well it started in 82. so a million dollars was a lot of money back then finally in 1985-86
he got 25 grand to go make the movie that was cutting really short to the chase on this story
and my my mother my father and I with a couple of tight filmmaker friends we we huddled together
and figured out how we were going to do it and I don't think the film would have been at all
different if we had had the million versus the 25. I don't think a frame of the film would have
been any different and the success that that film had it taught me how to make movies for nothing
and what it launched ultimately gridiron gang and a lot of seven other movies of the week that
collectively did very well that all came from a 25 000 let's do this from a million dollar budget so
for me I always tell a filmmaker what do you have access to what are your means if you're
going to write the check yourself what can you afford how can you do this really break it down
let's not think about putting all the money in your pocket let's think about building content
are you going to be able to own the library when it's all said and done it's become a valuable
asset to you 20 years from now and I think it just in most of the the the talks that we give
with with producers and webinars it's it's the main reason people are not making their content
is because they can't raise the money that they've this self-imposed budget and I just
think sometimes if they they really really learn the craft of of how to get things done and not
chins out on what your ultimate vision is I mean it's not about cheapening out or chinzing out okay
sure you're not going to get George Clooney on a $500,000 budget versus a 50 million dollar budget
but is you trying to get that 50 million dollars going to be 10 years from now you're talking about
getting that movie made still or have you moved on to five other movies you still haven't made
and and for me it's about getting excited about making a project and doing everything you can
to get it done and okay this is what we have to do it we're getting it done for this let's go
and that's probably one reason that I that I have the career I have where it's it's not about the
budget and what it has to be it's this is what we can do our next project for let's create this
content for this budget and and every project you do is going to build you to another level whether
it's dollars or actor level or distribution or whatever you have to look at this this industry we
we hear about the success stories but for for most of us it's truly a marathon it's not a sprint and
you have to look long-term it's like when you put money into a cd or an ira it's long-term growth
and you have to look at this career like that because having a script you're running around town
with trying to raise 10 15 20 million dollars on and not getting it done does not get anything done
but if you're able to get similar content or even that that passion project to yours done for the
money that you really can get or or raise and you get it done it's just going to build and build and
build to get to where you ultimately want to go and personally i'd rather have four or five films
under my belt in five years than talking about making one that's just me personally just that's
my advice to filmmakers is really think about what you can do something for and where is this budget
coming from because if the content is good and the cast is respectable enough to get eyeballs
you're you're going to have hopefully some success with it you're going to move it and just because
the budget's high does not guarantee success it doesn't guarantee distribution there's a lot of
very expensive movies that are sitting in cans right now that have been done for years with
a-list stars that have never seen the light of day and go make content that's what it's about would
you say you're asking for less money these days when you approach an investor absolutely I mean
the the go-to for everybody I think that is pitching an investor is well there's so
much so much opportunity for for distribution now well there might be but what does it pay
the home video market is done that was really the biggest revenue that we were seeing on our
independent films when when blockbuster and Hollywood video was out and before
the Netflix world the money that us indy folks saw was was pretty substantial on the returns
that's not happening anymore so you're streaming you're seeing sometimes pennies pennies for
streams and AVODS and VODS where before you were seeing dollars so what we try to do is we we've
got it figured out how to make films on a dime and make them at least the production value is good
so what we do is we present a product that is marketable it looks good it fits with everything
else that's happening that we were able to produce for a fraction of the cost of what
everybody else is making it for which when it sells the deals are smaller but the investors
are still happy because the risk was low the rewards are what they are but it all it all
comes parallel what's happened is the budgets for the films that we do at like 500 650 000
when home video was around that was gold but because everything's streaming now for the most
part you may get a few tv deals that pay okay but you don't want to count on those those are those
are like easter eggs are great when you find them but you want to keep your investors happy
money out money in and the returns on those are not only lower they also take forever to pay these
streaming deals when you work with a distributor they usually have 90 days after the previous
quarter to pay well they're still dealing with the same thing at their end from the streaming
platforms so the streaming platforms could take 90 to 120 days to report and pay them and then
they have another 90 days after the quarter to pay you so you could be looking at eight nine months
before you see a dime on a stream so these are things that you have to be very upfront about with
your investors you have to let them know that this is this is the way it is now the misnomer is that
there's so many big dollar deals for everybody you hear and read about the big dollar deals that's
that's what keeps the wheels turning but the majority is you're dealing with smaller deals and
I really encourage filmmakers to try to keep their their budgets lower so they can get more content
made you can really learn how this industry is working if you're not working at the studio system
what would you say is the sweet spot that an independent filmmaker should spend on their movie
I think a sweet spot for an independent filmmaker is it's different for everybody because
content different content drives more dollars internationally comedy if it's circumstantial
comedy that's one thing but if it's written comedy it doesn't always translate foreign
so you're limiting your foreign certain films don't do well overseas so
I don't think there's a sweet spot for everybody I think there are sweet spots that people can do
and if you're going to spend more money just put it in the cast it really is it's if there's
content there's content that fits a niche or a genre but then there's also star power
and if you're trying to get a-list actors they're always going to cost you a lot of money
so some independent filmmakers do very well they'll make three or four million dollar films
they'll put two million dollars into two actors and then everything else is the rest of the film
there's nothing wrong with that if you're doing the walk and talk dramas I unless you're
you're knocking it out of the park with star power why do these films need to be made for
more than three hundred thousand dollars I just I don't know why they would need to be if you're not
if you are not justifying it with the star power again spend 10 million if you're getting George
Clooney and Meg Ryan or whoever's hot today it changes every other day that's justifiable
globally that's going to do a lot for your revenue but if you're working with actors that are
really good at their craft that that are blue collar actors that are going to get the job done
but they're not marquee you really got to think about how you can keep the costs down because
again the less you spend the less you're going to make especially when it comes to talent but again
you have to navigate what it is you're selling if you're selling action what are the star power that
you need to pull the action film or is it going to do good globally besides here in north America
horror does that translate worldwide does psychological thrillers do well every film
genre has its goods and bads all over the globe and you really need to research that before you
find your sweet spot and we find our sweet spot just by trial and error I mean we haven't
we haven't hit home runs every time we make a movie base hits and doubles are wonderful
but you really you really need to understand the playing field before you find your sweet spot
and I think it's different for every every genre and it's different for every filmmaker too.