Shane Stanley, Filmmaker/Author/Instructor: I’m a firm believer that if you're not making noise
with your work and you gotta call agents and people to represent you then your work is not…
Film Courage: What's your advice to people on getting representation
whether it's for film, screenwriting, acting?
Shane: Well I think that having representation and how it comes to you and the need for it is they're
separate. You have to keep them separate. I think if you're an actor you need it. It's an agent's
job to go through the breakdowns and submit you for roles to get you taped auditions or in the
room. I mean an actor can't act without people knowing they exist. I think that cinematographers
that's very important too. I think agents can be very beneficial to a cinematographer's career.
By and large agents sit around wait for the phone to ring. I mean let's call it like it is, the days
of agents reading scripts taking 20 or 30 home a weekend and discovering new property and calling
an actor and saying I just read something you've got to read. Let's call the producers and tell
them you want to do this, a lot of agents wait for the phone to ring and I think that when writers,
directors and filmmakers ask about getting representation I’m a firm believer that you're
either chasing it or it's chasing you and I talk about this a lot in the book [Shane’s book - WHAT
YOU DON’T LEARN IN FILM SCHOOL: A Complete Guide To (Independent) Filmmaking] a big chunk of it
about representation and being a filmmaker and I’m a firm believer that if you're not making noise
with your work and you’ve got to call agents and people to represent you, then your work is
not going to be something that they're going to have a real easy time getting behind and selling
and I know that's very harsh to say. Look I’ve been through 100 agents and managers
and I’ve never gotten a job from one not one and I've been with some big agencies and big
managers and maybe it's my fault maybe I'm just horrible and unsellable but I get asked
a lot from from young writers who may have had a short film made or producers who are trying to
sell sell what they're doing to a bigger scale and things today especially with the changes in our
industry in the last few years agencies that are respectable and real they they're kind of signing
people by committee now it's not hip pocketing the days of an agent taking somebody kind of
off the grid in their back pocket and trying to do something with that is is really frowned upon
and is something that's really not done as much anymore if at all so when you go in with a with
a res e and a body of work that you might have and try to get representation you you have to
they're going check with everybody from the janitor to the parking attendant to make sure
if they should sign you or not it's it's not just somebody falling in love with you and unless it's
somebody who runs a boutique on their own that they are the judge jury and executioner but
I have found that when when you seek out representation and you have to kind of do a
tap dance to get them to want to get behind your work and your abilities I always say let's see
where that that relationship is in six months they usually don't bear much fruit and and that's it's
unfortunate it's hard to get representation as a writer as a producer as a director in this town
that said it is not hard to create original content that if it's good enough can get the
attention of a respectable agent or a manager again we we have endless resources for so cheap
as filmmakers even even student filmmakers you can get a dslr camera you can get actors
and again don't hire your cousin and your mother to be in them go to
acting schools and call the people that run these acting schools and say I'm making a short
I'm doing a spec commercial give me some good talent there are people out there
that actually know how to act that you can get and put stuff together if you're
hurdle is well I can't get anything done because I can't get any money or I can't get anything
done because nobody's behind me then you have to create the content and if you don't have the
content created how are people going to know if you're worthy of being represented or not I'm not
trying to discourage anybody from trying to get representation and I'm sure there are
those wonderful relationships where the artist has banged down the door enough times and the agent
finally said okay I'll rep you and it's gone well there are those exceptions but by and large
the majority of the time first-time writers and I say first-time writers and I finished
a screenplay or I have a book on amazon where's my agent it doesn't work that way and if it does
let's see how that went after six months I just don't think that when you have to
try to convince somebody to represent you that that that's that's a passion I think
when a true agent or manager gets behind somebody I think they have to be passionate about them
I think they have to be they're they're working for the artist and they have they only get paid
on commission and who are they going to spend their days banging down the doors for and if
if you're an actor I really believe you need an agent but talking about the filmmaker side
it's tough to get representation and and I often tell filmmakers don't don't spin your wheels and
burn your calories trying to get an agent just the amount of time you're trying to
burn the phones to find an agent you should be shooting something that's going to make
an agent say holy moly I saw this on Youtube I saw this on Vimeo I saw this at a film festival
or at least if you are going to bang on those doors you should have three or four
short films or something I know a very successful commercial director who's who's been at the top
of the game for many years and I asked him once I said how did you get in the game you didn't come
from film school you didn't have parents that could he said hey man I got a camera I got I
got friends who could act I got guys who can hold sound and I knew how to direct I knew how to cut
and I went out and I started doing spec commercials like he did Doritos, Coca-Cola,
Pepsi he would just grab product and do these incredible how like Doritos would have these
contests where your own campaign and maybe we'll use it he would just do that for everything he
would do cars like if his mom got a new BMW mom let me make a car commercial for BMW
and this guy had like 20 or 30 commercials and they all looked like really big commercials and
he was able to go in and say this is what I can do this is who you're representing keep in mind
when you go to an agent they need content to sell you because they're going to make phone calls
or emails on your behalf and the decision makers are going to say great let me see their work and
if you don't have work the agent's job you're kind of you're kind of kneecapping the agent going in
because they're going to come to you and say you got to get me content and it's it can't be looked
at as a chicken or egg type thing that's an excuse the filmmaker the artist has to get out there
and and create the content now if you're a writer I'm a firm believer that you may you may excel
or be passionate about writing one thing I think it's important if you're unknown
to really stretch and try to try to get three or four spec scripts done in different genres because
there are companies that are just making thrillers that may read your script that an agent can take
to somebody like Mar Vista and say hey you're doing a bunch of stuff for a lifetime look at this
if the agent can get it in the room it'll get a look but there's also companies that only
do horror there's companies like Hallmark that only do romantic comedies or whatever
those things are called and if you're a writer that's looking to get representation the agent
is going to want and need as much ammunition as possible you have to make their job easy
and if you give them three or four different a pallet of different things they're going to be
able to circulate three or four different scripts maybe 15 or 20 different companies think about
what the odds just come of you not only getting somebody in your corner to represent you but
getting seen and getting a reputation a wonderful woman I met a year and a half ago at a webinar
right when kovitz started brilliant writer she writes these beautiful romantic little films
that are just Hallmark and she got a script read and she got a green light and she got the film
produced and now she's a working writer and she we talked about it and she was like oh my goodness I
got genres in everything this woman was pushing a genre but when it came time to getting looked
at and getting representation she had a whole plethora of stuff to give to them and say look
I can write anything and that's what she's doing now and and you have to I think too many of us sit
around and wait for the phone to ring or the door to get knocked on or somebody to know somebody you
have to be so proactive on on creating content to get people excited about what you do I go back to
we talk about films like napoleon dynamite started as a short saw was a short sling blade was a short
there's there's so many of those films even whiplash was a short they obviously did
something right to get the attention to get these things made into major motion pictures that hasn't
changed people forget that those four great films started from beginnings I mean Napoleon Dynamite
the short was in black and white for crying out loud I mean it's horrible but it was great but
it was it was so bad it was good right but that's how we have to think as filmmakers
James Wan did it brilliantly with his short for saw I mean I encourage everybody go on youtube
find these films they're all there they're all there you can find these shorts and you will see
where Billy Bob Thornton got Sling Blade from you will see where Napoleon Dynamite and Whiplash all
came from because they're all they're all there and they all started because somebody
said screw it I'm going do it. and that's that's what I tell people they need to do
so maybe we are too much in this mindset of like I need to have my people do it oh wait I don't have
people I need to get people I need to get people I I'm i'm not successful until I have people
and we're not willing to say wait a minute I'm not there yet a lot of people have a hard time saying
I'm not there yet and that's a really good point we all have to be able to say we're not there yet
and truly identify and accept when we're not and get over that next. I mean I deal with a lot of
actors that when we do workshops and do acting class work and it's awesome like I need a team
you need a team for what you've had an agent for two years you go out on 15 auditions a week you're
not booking you need to better the craft you ever think maybe you're just not good in a room do
you ever think maybe you need to study better and look at the reel and half the time they're not off
book and they've had the work for three days and you're reading one scene you're not off book yet
these are the kind of things that that really will impact an actor from getting past an audition and
it's it's very hard for artists we are so myopic we are so self-centered anyway it's in our nature
we we're very selfish people but when it comes to getting to the next level it's very very rare
that somebody can look and say it's me I need to get off my behind and create content I need to
get into acting class two or three nights a week I need to go take a class in basic lighting
if I really want to be a cinematographer or a director I need to understand lenses
I need to I tell everybody who wants to write produce direct and and get in the edit bay
that's where you're going to learn it more than anything because you're going to see you're going
to fix other people's mistakes you're going to you're going to learn what ends up on a cutting
room floor you're going to realize the amount of time you waste on a set and what that'll do is
it'll better you when you make your short films and it'll better you when when writing scripts
I mean it's amazing how many writers have never been in the edit bay that's the most important
place there are three scripts there's the one you write the one that's shot and the one that's cut
and if you can if you can bridge the gap between the one that's written and the one that's released
boy it's a helpful tool and I know writers are going to bash me for saying that but get your
button to write any edit bay and realize what what you write and how it affects production costs and
putting certain amount of characters in a certain scene and you got to remember you got to cover all
that get multiple takes on every actor and what that does production is a lot of good
we talk about this in other another webinars I've done and the writer needs to understand
a production mindset because there are some great scripts out there that that don't get read
past 20 or 30 pages and it's because they don't understand it from a produceral view where you
really have to think about when you write a script you can say well it shouldn't be that
expensive it just takes place in a flat in New York and well okay how many people are in it how
many different locations what is your logistics here and you have to think of who you're going
after you realistically to produce it and does it fit in what they're doing it's about finding
that connection with a producer with your written word but also kind of going back to what you said
making an agent's job easier if you have an agent that isn't WME or CAA level that's not going to
kick down doors and get you to every studio you got to realize the level of the agent or
manager you're working with and where they have the ability to get you now if you are able to
work with somebody and somebody is showing interest in working with you I think it's
very important you have that talk early on is what is your ability to get me through the door
what are the studios networks production shingles whatever they call them where can you get my stuff
read so that artist that writer can understand okay this manager can only get me in a hallmark
so they need to start thinking about okay let me get this stuff together for you that's going
to give you the path of least resistance start getting my my stuff to you that you
can go to hallmark with or is it lifetime let me get you some thrillers let me get you some
husband came out of jail wants to see his kid scripts let me give you some of those and
and that's that's important it's not just about being a good writer it's about finding a match
and finding out who your potential representatives have the ability or juice to get to so the work
that you submit to them it resonates with the people that it's ultimately going to get read by
because if you have a great script and the people that are reading it have no business
making a film like that or no interest in making a story like that it doesn't matter it's just wasted
time what if someone says though that I'm not a DIY person like that I want my I'm kind of grew
up with staff and different things so I need I need to have my people do this well if you've
grown up with staff you should be able to write checks so write check and go make a movie I mean
that's fine I mean I'm sorry but yeah I think you're in the wrong business I mean it's it's
very rare that somebody can sit in a basement and just crank out scripts and the day is
going come or that script is read by the right agent or the right assistant to an actor and
I mean there's always the lottery I mean people win the lottery that's true I think the odds are
about the same but I think you need to if you're not DIY and you need people and you need a staff
then what I think you need to do is find other people that are needing a staff but one of them
has a camera and one of them is an actor and one of them may be an editor and work together we
talked earlier about people working together and building something special and building building a
team everybody having a common goal to get to the next level and that's what I tell a lot of writers
I said the cool thing about being a writer is you don't need anybody to tell you to go to work
you you really have the only job in this industry that you you may not get paid yet or at all
but nobody can tell you you can't work right now you have the ability to roll out of bed turn on
a light at two in the morning and write and that's a beautiful thing because an actor is not going to
be able to get in front of a camera and tap dance unless there's a script director doesn't have
anything to direct unless there's a script there's nothing to produce without a script the writers
are essential I mean it's so important it's an incredible position to be in if you're not able to
be a writer producer director editor or filmmaker and all your focus is on writing then you need to
get out more and you need to find people of like mind that have those skill sets or the materials
to get your products seen it's just it's not going to sitting in a pdf on an external hard drive or
somewhere on your computer is not going to get it made it's about getting it with
people and I'm very big a lot of people like to talk about pitch decks and proof of concept
some of the most impressive things I've seen are when people go out and shoot a scene or
two or three to me that's a real pitch deck that's a proof of concept I don't want to see
papers and comps and actors you're never going to acquire on your proof of your pitch deck I
want to see you go out and shoot a scene for your film with comparable qualified people
and people that are passionate about it and I think some of those true
pocs [proof of concept] that I've seen they knock me out of my seat I can't believe what
people are putting together these days and I mean for nothing no money there's no excuse.
Question
For The Viewers:
How essential are agents and managers to someone starting their careers?