we have
huge breaking news tonight and i can't
even believe i'm going to tell you what
i'm about to tell you but in a highly
indeed as far as i can tell utterly
unprecedented leak from the supreme
court
politico has obtained what they say is
an initial draft majority opinion
written by justice alito showing the
supreme court striking down roe versus
wade
quote
roe was egregiously wrong from the start
elito writes
we hold that row in case he must be
overruled he writes in the document
labeled as the opinion of the court
again i'm reading from the political
article it is time to heed the
constitution and return the issue of
abortion to the people's elected
representatives now
politico mentions this piece
this has never happened before as far as
i know a draft opinion the court leaking
a b
this would be if
true the most seismic
court ruling in
50 years most likely a a
earthquake in the lives of america's
women in our legal culture in our
political culture
irene carmon is a senior correspondent
at new york magazine uh where she covers
gender law and politics among other
topics she joins me now irin we we
booked you tonight
for a block
that was going to be about how it seemed
likely row was going to be overturned
that it seemed like maybe there was a
little like
failure to price in that reality in the
political class and then this literally
crossed
two minutes before you came on air what
is your reaction
chris i'm gobsmacked for the same
reasons that you are in the sense that
politico has posted a 98-page opinion
again it is a draft we do not know if it
will change between now and when we
expect the court to hand down its
opinion in june but nonetheless it is a
detailed seemingly authenticated draft
written by samuel alito that would make
abortion illegal in at least half the
country the day that it goes into effect
what's shocking is that we have it
what's shocking is the impact that it
will have on real people's lives
unfortunately anybody who listened to
the justices deliberate in december is
not going to be shocked by this outcome
what what does seem still to be up in
the air is what will chief justice
roberts do because according to
politico's reporting at least
his vote is still up for grabs we heard
him in december clearly say that he was
interested in undoing the viability line
which is a way of overturning roe
without actually saying we are
overturning roe what's striking about
what i've been able to read from justice
alito's opinion is that he says very
clearly we are overturning rogue we are
overturning casey with strengthened roe
and the impact of that would be
absolutely devastating on millions of
people who can become pregnant who live
in hostile jurisdictions and it would
certainly open the door to what we were
originally going to talk about today
which is a proposed national ban passed
by republicans so this would enormously
change people's lives again if this
opinion can get to a majority um so
we know that people often will leak
deliberations by the court after the
fact we don't usually hear or get to
read the details it is still possible i
don't know how likely it is it is still
possible that between now and the end of
june there will be some haggling some
like change in the opinion but we do
know that the votes are apparently there
from conference for justice alito to
have gotten at least an initial sign off
to write a majority opinion that cleanly
unmistakably overturns roe v wade yes
just to be clear the reporting from
politico is that there are five votes
for this majority opinion so whether you
know there's there's there's five votes
there then there are the three liberals
um and then uh and then
roberts in opposition or am i wrong on
that erin um you know i think he was
assigned to a majority which means that
when they took their votes on friday
after the oral argument there would have
been votes for at least this outcome
right but when justices then circulate
the opinion they still need to get the
the other justices to fully sign on so
there have been times that in the
process of writing uh justices changed
their mind case planned parenthood
versus casey was actually an example of
this in which in the court in the course
of writing it there was negotiations so
i would i would say that the fact that
somebody is leaking this is telling us
that that person hopes that they can
sway perhaps chief justice john roberts
to split the difference a little bit
again i'm totally speculating but this
extraordinary leak i think needs to be
read on its own as somebody really
trying to draw attention to what the
court is about to do to the lives of the
american people yes i mean that's part
of what's so shocking about it is that
it seems like a
a signal flare right i mean a complete
moment of break glass desperation right
50 or 50 years that has built up to this
moment in which a sustained attack on
reproductive rights in this country by
the by the political forces that that
lost in row and then again in casey to
gut it to whittle it away to try to like
this you know sort of eviscerate it
everything but overturn that this is the
moment is here the wolf is at the door
and they're going to overturn row
this guy has fallen
that's the message uh of this and again
whoever leaked this and i have no zero
insight i am i'm just responding in real
time to this um iran to your point and
again this is going to drive our news i
think quite a bit uh in in the aftermath
of it but it doesn't this is the
beginning of something and not the end
in a million different ways both
not that this opinion is has
is law we don't know that but but there
is a lot to wrestle with in the
aftermath of this and hopefully you can
come back as we wrestle with it or in
carmon thank you so much for joining us
i'm so glad that we had you
thank you chris
[Music]
you