WOULD THAT BE LETTING DOWN THE BRAVE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS ALL
BRAVE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS IS
JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS IS STEVEN WALT PROFESSOR OF
OF THIS IS STEVEN WALT PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS. AT
STEVEN WALT PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS. AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS. AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY AND A COLUMNIST. FOREIGN
HARVARD UNIVERSITY AND A COLUMNIST. FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE,
AND A COLUMNIST. FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINE, JULIA YAFFE, CO-FOUNDER, AND
POLICY MAGAZINE, JULIA YAFFE, CO-FOUNDER, AND DC CORRESPONDENT FOR
JULIA YAFFE, CO-FOUNDER, AND DC CORRESPONDENT FOR PARK NEWS AND THE FORMER
DC CORRESPONDENT FOR PARK NEWS AND THE FORMER FRENCH AMBASSADOR TO THE
PARK NEWS AND THE FORMER FRENCH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES
STEVEN. LET ME SUDDEN BRIDGE
STEVEN. LET ME SUDDEN BRIDGE FOR YOUR ENEMIES. WHAT DOES
STEVEN. LET ME SUDDEN BRIDGE FOR YOUR ENEMIES. WHAT DOES A GOLDEN BRIDGE IN UKRAINE
FOR YOUR ENEMIES. WHAT DOES A GOLDEN BRIDGE IN UKRAINE RIGHT NOW LOOK LIKE AND IS IT
A GOLDEN BRIDGE IN UKRAINE RIGHT NOW LOOK LIKE AND IS IT TOO SOON TO BE TALKING ABOUT
RIGHT NOW LOOK LIKE AND IS IT TOO SOON TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS GIVEN WE‘VE ONLY JUST
TOO SOON TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS GIVEN WE‘VE ONLY JUST STARTED
THIS GIVEN WE‘VE ONLY JUST STARTED PRESSURING PUTIN.
STARTED PRESSURING PUTIN. I DON‘T THINK IT‘S TOO EARLY
PRESSURING PUTIN. I DON‘T THINK IT‘S TOO EARLY TO START TALKING ABOUT IT IN
I DON‘T THINK IT‘S TOO EARLY TO START TALKING ABOUT IT IN PART BECAUSE THERE‘S BEEN
TO START TALKING ABOUT IT IN PART BECAUSE THERE‘S BEEN THESE PREMATURE
PART BECAUSE THERE‘S BEEN THESE PREMATURE DECLARATIONS OF VICTORY BY
THESE PREMATURE DECLARATIONS OF VICTORY BY SOME COMMENTATORS IN THE WEST.
DECLARATIONS OF VICTORY BY SOME COMMENTATORS IN THE WEST. IT‘S CLEAR THAT THE RUSSIAN
SOME COMMENTATORS IN THE WEST. IT‘S CLEAR THAT THE RUSSIAN INVASION HAS NOT GONE AS
IT‘S CLEAR THAT THE RUSSIAN INVASION HAS NOT GONE AS SMOOTHLY AS MOSCOW. HAD
INVASION HAS NOT GONE AS SMOOTHLY AS MOSCOW. HAD HOPED THAT‘S GOOD NEWS AS
SMOOTHLY AS MOSCOW. HAD HOPED THAT‘S GOOD NEWS AS WELL.
HOPED THAT‘S GOOD NEWS AS WELL. AND
WELL. AND THIS IS IMMEDIATELY, BEEN
AND THIS IS IMMEDIATELY, BEEN INTERPRETED AS SOME AS
THIS IS IMMEDIATELY, BEEN INTERPRETED AS SOME AS SORT OF AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRY
INTERPRETED AS SOME AS SORT OF AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRY AND HUMILIATE RUSSIA AS MUCH
SORT OF AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRY AND HUMILIATE RUSSIA AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. AND AS YOU
AND HUMILIATE RUSSIA AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. AND AS YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR OPENING,
AS POSSIBLE. AND AS YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR OPENING, EVEN SOME CALLS FROM PEOPLE
MENTIONED IN YOUR OPENING, EVEN SOME CALLS FROM PEOPLE WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAT
EVEN SOME CALLS FROM PEOPLE WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAT WHAT WE SHOULD BE PUSHING FOR
WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAT WHAT WE SHOULD BE PUSHING FOR IS SOME KIND OF REGIME CHANGE
WHAT WE SHOULD BE PUSHING FOR IS SOME KIND OF REGIME CHANGE THAT. THE ONLY SOLUTION HERE
IS SOME KIND OF REGIME CHANGE THAT. THE ONLY SOLUTION HERE IS THE EVENTUAL
THAT. THE ONLY SOLUTION HERE IS THE EVENTUAL REMOVAL OF VLADIMIR PUTIN.
IS THE EVENTUAL REMOVAL OF VLADIMIR PUTIN. THIS IS THE KIND OF THING
REMOVAL OF VLADIMIR PUTIN. THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT, YOU KNOW, GETS
THIS IS THE KIND OF THING THAT, YOU KNOW, GETS REALLY MAJOR WARS STARTED. IF
THAT, YOU KNOW, GETS REALLY MAJOR WARS STARTED. IF YOU‘RE TRYING TO GET RUSSIA TO
REALLY MAJOR WARS STARTED. IF YOU‘RE TRYING TO GET RUSSIA TO TURN AROUND,
YOU‘RE TRYING TO GET RUSSIA TO TURN AROUND, YOU DON‘T WANT TO SUGGEST
TURN AROUND, YOU DON‘T WANT TO SUGGEST THAT. THAT‘S WHAT
YOU DON‘T WANT TO SUGGEST THAT. THAT‘S WHAT YOUR OBJECTIVE IS.
THAT. THAT‘S WHAT YOUR OBJECTIVE IS. HERE,
YOUR OBJECTIVE IS. HERE, OUR GOAL IS TO GET RUSSIA OUT
HERE, OUR GOAL IS TO GET RUSSIA OUT OF UKRAINE IN A WAY
OUR GOAL IS TO GET RUSSIA OUT OF UKRAINE IN A WAY THAT SATISFIES
OF UKRAINE IN A WAY THAT SATISFIES UKRAINIANS DESIRE TO LIVE
THAT SATISFIES UKRAINIANS DESIRE TO LIVE INDEPENDENT, SOVEREIGN LIVES
UKRAINIANS DESIRE TO LIVE INDEPENDENT, SOVEREIGN LIVES AND MINIMIZES THE RISK OF WAR
INDEPENDENT, SOVEREIGN LIVES AND MINIMIZES THE RISK OF WAR GOING FORWARD. AND IF THAT
AND MINIMIZES THE RISK OF WAR GOING FORWARD. AND IF THAT REQUIRES US NOT TO
GOING FORWARD. AND IF THAT REQUIRES US NOT TO HUMILIATE
REQUIRES US NOT TO HUMILIATE RUSSIA AND TO GIVE THEM SOME
HUMILIATE RUSSIA AND TO GIVE THEM SOME FACE-SAVING WAYS OUT, THEN
RUSSIA AND TO GIVE THEM SOME FACE-SAVING WAYS OUT, THEN THAT‘S OBVIOUSLY IN OUR
FACE-SAVING WAYS OUT, THEN THAT‘S OBVIOUSLY IN OUR INTEREST. IT‘S VERY MUCH
THAT‘S OBVIOUSLY IN OUR INTEREST. IT‘S VERY MUCH IN UKRAINE‘S INTEREST BECAUSE
INTEREST. IT‘S VERY MUCH IN UKRAINE‘S INTEREST BECAUSE OF COURSE THE LONGER THIS WAR
IN UKRAINE‘S INTEREST BECAUSE OF COURSE THE LONGER THIS WAR GOES ON, THE MORE DAMAGE WILL
OF COURSE THE LONGER THIS WAR GOES ON, THE MORE DAMAGE WILL BE DONE TO UKRAINE MORE
GOES ON, THE MORE DAMAGE WILL BE DONE TO UKRAINE MORE THAN ANYONE
BE DONE TO UKRAINE MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE.
THAN ANYONE ELSE. JULIA. WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE
ELSE. JULIA. WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO STEVENS ARGUMENT ABOUT
JULIA. WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO STEVENS ARGUMENT ABOUT OFFERING A FACE-SAVING WAY
TO STEVENS ARGUMENT ABOUT OFFERING A FACE-SAVING WAY OUT. WE ALL WANT THIS WAR TO
OFFERING A FACE-SAVING WAY OUT. WE ALL WANT THIS WAR TO END AND SOON.
OUT. WE ALL WANT THIS WAR TO END AND SOON. WHAT‘S THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT
END AND SOON. WHAT‘S THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT IN YOUR
WHAT‘S THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT IN YOUR VIEW?
IN YOUR VIEW? I‘M NOT SURE AND I‘M SO GLAD
VIEW? I‘M NOT SURE AND I‘M SO GLAD THAT I‘M NOT PAID TO, YOU
I‘M NOT SURE AND I‘M SO GLAD THAT I‘M NOT PAID TO, YOU KNOW, FIND SOLUTIONS, BUT I
THAT I‘M NOT PAID TO, YOU KNOW, FIND SOLUTIONS, BUT I DO AGREE WITH PROFESSOR
KNOW, FIND SOLUTIONS, BUT I DO AGREE WITH PROFESSOR WALT THAT,
DO AGREE WITH PROFESSOR WALT THAT, YOU KNOW, FINDING SOME KIND OF
WALT THAT, YOU KNOW, FINDING SOME KIND OF OFF-RAMP. EVEN AT THIS STAGE
YOU KNOW, FINDING SOME KIND OF OFF-RAMP. EVEN AT THIS STAGE WOULD BE IDEAL. THE
OFF-RAMP. EVEN AT THIS STAGE WOULD BE IDEAL. THE QUESTION IS,
WOULD BE IDEAL. THE QUESTION IS, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?
QUESTION IS, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? BECAUSE I THINK IT‘S GOTTEN
HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? BECAUSE I THINK IT‘S GOTTEN HARDER
BECAUSE I THINK IT‘S GOTTEN HARDER THE GOLDEN BRIDGE HAS BEEN
HARDER THE GOLDEN BRIDGE HAS BEEN THERE THIS ENTIRE TIME, THE
THE GOLDEN BRIDGE HAS BEEN THERE THIS ENTIRE TIME, THE US AND
THERE THIS ENTIRE TIME, THE US AND EUROPE
US AND EUROPE WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ENGAGE
EUROPE WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ENGAGE IN DIPLOMACY WITH RUSSIA FOR
WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO ENGAGE IN DIPLOMACY WITH RUSSIA FOR THE LAST TWO MONTHS, AT LEAST.
IN DIPLOMACY WITH RUSSIA FOR THE LAST TWO MONTHS, AT LEAST. HAVE
THE LAST TWO MONTHS, AT LEAST. HAVE TRYING TO BUILD THIS
HAVE TRYING TO BUILD THIS GOLDEN BRIDGE FOR RUSSIA AND
TRYING TO BUILD THIS GOLDEN BRIDGE FOR RUSSIA AND RUSSIA REFUSED TO RETREAT
GOLDEN BRIDGE FOR RUSSIA AND RUSSIA REFUSED TO RETREAT ACROSS IT. AND I THINK IN
RUSSIA REFUSED TO RETREAT ACROSS IT. AND I THINK IN PART BECAUSE
ACROSS IT. AND I THINK IN PART BECAUSE WHAT PUTIN WANTS AND
PART BECAUSE WHAT PUTIN WANTS AND I HATE
WHAT PUTIN WANTS AND I HATE TO USE THAT PHRASE BUT WHAT
I HATE TO USE THAT PHRASE BUT WHAT PUTIN WANTS IS SOMETHING THAT
TO USE THAT PHRASE BUT WHAT PUTIN WANTS IS SOMETHING THAT WE CANNOT GIVE HIM. HE WANTS
PUTIN WANTS IS SOMETHING THAT WE CANNOT GIVE HIM. HE WANTS UKRAINE
WE CANNOT GIVE HIM. HE WANTS UKRAINE AND WHAT WAS SO INTERESTING TO
UKRAINE AND WHAT WAS SO INTERESTING TO ME IN THIS LAST WEEK WAS
AND WHAT WAS SO INTERESTING TO ME IN THIS LAST WEEK WAS THAT OVER THE WEEKEND?
ME IN THIS LAST WEEK WAS THAT OVER THE WEEKEND? RUSSIAN
THAT OVER THE WEEKEND? RUSSIAN RIA RIA NEWS, WHICH IS A
RUSSIAN RIA RIA NEWS, WHICH IS A STATE
RIA RIA NEWS, WHICH IS A STATE NEWS
STATE NEWS ORGANIZATION PUBLISHED THIS
NEWS ORGANIZATION PUBLISHED THIS LONG, OP-ED SAYING
ORGANIZATION PUBLISHED THIS LONG, OP-ED SAYING HURRAH,
LONG, OP-ED SAYING HURRAH, UKRAINE HAS BEEN CONQUERED
HURRAH, UKRAINE HAS BEEN CONQUERED NOW.
UKRAINE HAS BEEN CONQUERED NOW. RUSSIA. IS THIS THE RIGHT?
NOW. RUSSIA. IS THIS THE RIGHT? THERE‘S A RUSSIAN WORLD. IT‘S
RUSSIA. IS THIS THE RIGHT? THERE‘S A RUSSIAN WORLD. IT‘S BEEN RECONSTITUTED OF GREAT
THERE‘S A RUSSIAN WORLD. IT‘S BEEN RECONSTITUTED OF GREAT RUSSIA.
BEEN RECONSTITUTED OF GREAT RUSSIA. WHITE RUSSIA BELARUS, WHICH IS
RUSSIA. WHITE RUSSIA BELARUS, WHICH IS WHAT BELARUSIAN MEANS.
WHITE RUSSIA BELARUS, WHICH IS WHAT BELARUSIAN MEANS. BELARUS MEANS AND
WHAT BELARUSIAN MEANS. BELARUS MEANS AND LITTLE RUSSIA, WHICH IS
BELARUS MEANS AND LITTLE RUSSIA, WHICH IS UKRAINE. AND NOW WE CAN
LITTLE RUSSIA, WHICH IS UKRAINE. AND NOW WE CAN COUNTERBALANCE
UKRAINE. AND NOW WE CAN COUNTERBALANCE ANGLO-SAXON WORLD, AND, OF
COUNTERBALANCE ANGLO-SAXON WORLD, AND, OF COURSE, IT SEEMED TO BE KIND
ANGLO-SAXON WORLD, AND, OF COURSE, IT SEEMED TO BE KIND OF JUMPING, THE GUN AND SEEM
COURSE, IT SEEMED TO BE KIND OF JUMPING, THE GUN AND SEEM LIKE A PIECE THAT THE KREMLIN
OF JUMPING, THE GUN AND SEEM LIKE A PIECE THAT THE KREMLIN HAD PLANNED TO PUBLISH.
LIKE A PIECE THAT THE KREMLIN HAD PLANNED TO PUBLISH. IF IT‘S CAMPAIGN, HAD GONE
HAD PLANNED TO PUBLISH. IF IT‘S CAMPAIGN, HAD GONE AS PLANNED, WHICH WE KNOW, IT
IF IT‘S CAMPAIGN, HAD GONE AS PLANNED, WHICH WE KNOW, IT HASN‘T. SO IT SEEMS THAT
AS PLANNED, WHICH WE KNOW, IT HASN‘T. SO IT SEEMS THAT YOU KNOW, WE GOT AN
HASN‘T. SO IT SEEMS THAT YOU KNOW, WE GOT AN INSIGHT INTO WHAT THEY WANT
YOU KNOW, WE GOT AN INSIGHT INTO WHAT THEY WANT AND LIKE, I DON‘T KNOW WHAT
INSIGHT INTO WHAT THEY WANT AND LIKE, I DON‘T KNOW WHAT IF THAT‘S IF THAT‘S THEIR GOAL
AND LIKE, I DON‘T KNOW WHAT IF THAT‘S IF THAT‘S THEIR GOAL HERE.
IF THAT‘S IF THAT‘S THEIR GOAL HERE. WHAT DO WE OFFER?
HERE. WHAT DO WE OFFER? THEM.
WHAT DO WE OFFER? THEM. AND IF A POINT
THEM. AND IF A POINT AND THE OTHER THING I
AND IF A POINT AND THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY IS SORRY. CAN I JUST
AND THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY IS SORRY. CAN I JUST THE OTHER THING IS
WOULD SAY IS SORRY. CAN I JUST THE OTHER THING IS THAT HE HAS MADE
THE OTHER THING IS THAT HE HAS MADE EU MEMBERSHIP AND NATO
THAT HE HAS MADE EU MEMBERSHIP AND NATO MEMBERSHIP NOT JUST IN UKRAINE
EU MEMBERSHIP AND NATO MEMBERSHIP NOT JUST IN UKRAINE MORE POPULAR BUT IN FINLAND
MEMBERSHIP NOT JUST IN UKRAINE MORE POPULAR BUT IN FINLAND MORE
MORE POPULAR BUT IN FINLAND MORE POPULAR FINLAND, WHICH HAS
MORE POPULAR FINLAND, WHICH HAS BEEN NEUTRAL. THIS VERY REASON
POPULAR FINLAND, WHICH HAS BEEN NEUTRAL. THIS VERY REASON FOR THIS. LONG
BEEN NEUTRAL. THIS VERY REASON FOR THIS. LONG POPULAR DESIRE FOR NATO
FOR THIS. LONG POPULAR DESIRE FOR NATO MEMBERSHIP, HAS SHOT THROUGH
POPULAR DESIRE FOR NATO MEMBERSHIP, HAS SHOT THROUGH THE ROOF. THERE WAS A POLL
MEMBERSHIP, HAS SHOT THROUGH THE ROOF. THERE WAS A POLL THAT JUST CAME OUT TODAY
THE ROOF. THERE WAS A POLL THAT JUST CAME OUT TODAY WITH OVER HALF OF FINS. NOW,
THAT JUST CAME OUT TODAY WITH OVER HALF OF FINS. NOW, WANT TO JOIN FINLAND.
AND I ACTUALLY I SPOKE TO THE
AND I ACTUALLY I SPOKE TO THE I SPOKE TO THE FORM OF FINNISH
AND I ACTUALLY I SPOKE TO THE I SPOKE TO THE FORM OF FINNISH PRIME MINISTER YESTERDAY ON
I SPOKE TO THE FORM OF FINNISH PRIME MINISTER YESTERDAY ON THIS SHOW ON MSNBC AND HE WAS
PRIME MINISTER YESTERDAY ON THIS SHOW ON MSNBC AND HE WAS SAYING SIMILAR THINGS WHICH I
THIS SHOW ON MSNBC AND HE WAS SAYING SIMILAR THINGS WHICH I AM GOING TO RETURN BACK TO
SAYING SIMILAR THINGS WHICH I AM GOING TO RETURN BACK TO YOU, BUT I‘M GOING TO BRING IN
AM GOING TO RETURN BACK TO YOU, BUT I‘M GOING TO BRING IN MASTER ARROW.
YOU, BUT I‘M GOING TO BRING IN MASTER ARROW. FRENCH PRESIDENT.
MASTER ARROW. FRENCH PRESIDENT. EMMANUEL MACRON HAS BEEN IN
FRENCH PRESIDENT. EMMANUEL MACRON HAS BEEN IN TOUCH WITH PUTIN IN RECENT
EMMANUEL MACRON HAS BEEN IN TOUCH WITH PUTIN IN RECENT DAYS.
TOUCH WITH PUTIN IN RECENT DAYS. MACRON HAD A CALL WITH HIM
DAYS. MACRON HAD A CALL WITH HIM EARLIER. TODAY IN HIS OFFICE
MACRON HAD A CALL WITH HIM EARLIER. TODAY IN HIS OFFICE SAID THAT PUTIN CONFIRMED HIS
EARLIER. TODAY IN HIS OFFICE SAID THAT PUTIN CONFIRMED HIS WILLINGNESS TO COMMIT ON THREE
SAID THAT PUTIN CONFIRMED HIS WILLINGNESS TO COMMIT ON THREE POINTS, STOPPING ALL STRIKES
WILLINGNESS TO COMMIT ON THREE POINTS, STOPPING ALL STRIKES ON CIVILIANS IN UKRAINE
POINTS, STOPPING ALL STRIKES ON CIVILIANS IN UKRAINE PRESERVING CIVILIAN
ON CIVILIANS IN UKRAINE PRESERVING CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE AND PROVIDING
PRESERVING CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE AND PROVIDING SAFE ACCESS TO KEY ROAD.
INFRASTRUCTURE AND PROVIDING SAFE ACCESS TO KEY ROAD. WHAT SHOULD WE MAKE OF THIS
SAFE ACCESS TO KEY ROAD. WHAT SHOULD WE MAKE OF THIS THIS? AMBASSADOR‘S? FRANCE
WHAT SHOULD WE MAKE OF THIS THIS? AMBASSADOR‘S? FRANCE DOES EUROPE MORE BROADLY,
THIS? AMBASSADOR‘S? FRANCE DOES EUROPE MORE BROADLY, REALLY SEE A DIPLOMATIC END TO
DOES EUROPE MORE BROADLY, REALLY SEE A DIPLOMATIC END TO THIS CONFLICT
REALLY SEE A DIPLOMATIC END TO THIS CONFLICT ANYTIME SOON. IT DOESN‘T LOOK
THIS CONFLICT ANYTIME SOON. IT DOESN‘T LOOK LIKE THAT FROM THE US. I
ANYTIME SOON. IT DOESN‘T LOOK LIKE THAT FROM THE US. I KNOW.
LIKE THAT FROM THE US. I KNOW. NO, YOU KNOW,
KNOW. NO, YOU KNOW, EVERY CRISIS IS MOVING BY
NO, YOU KNOW, EVERY CRISIS IS MOVING BY STAGES.
EVERY CRISIS IS MOVING BY STAGES. AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE IN A
STAGES. AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE IN A STAGE WHERE ON ONE SIDE
AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE IN A STAGE WHERE ON ONE SIDE THE RUSSIANS CAN
STAGE WHERE ON ONE SIDE THE RUSSIANS CAN HOPE TO GET EVERYTHING THEY
THE RUSSIANS CAN HOPE TO GET EVERYTHING THEY WANT. IT WOULD BE MORE,
HOPE TO GET EVERYTHING THEY WANT. IT WOULD BE MORE, MAYBE MORE
WANT. IT WOULD BE MORE, MAYBE MORE DIFFICULT, MORE PAINFUL,
MAYBE MORE DIFFICULT, MORE PAINFUL, THAT IT WAS
DIFFICULT, MORE PAINFUL, THAT IT WAS FORECAST, BUT NEVERTHELESS
THAT IT WAS FORECAST, BUT NEVERTHELESS RIGHT NOW AFTER SIX DAYS OF
FORECAST, BUT NEVERTHELESS RIGHT NOW AFTER SIX DAYS OF CONFLICT, THEY CAN SAY
RIGHT NOW AFTER SIX DAYS OF CONFLICT, THEY CAN SAY WE‘LL REALLY EVEN. WE TAKE
CONFLICT, THEY CAN SAY WE‘LL REALLY EVEN. WE TAKE A KIEV. WE ACTUALLY,
WE‘LL REALLY EVEN. WE TAKE A KIEV. WE ACTUALLY, WE
A KIEV. WE ACTUALLY, WE MAY, WE MAY WIN
WE MAY, WE MAY WIN ON THE OTHER SIDE.
MAY, WE MAY WIN ON THE OTHER SIDE. UKRAINIANS, YOU KNOW EXCITED I
ON THE OTHER SIDE. UKRAINIANS, YOU KNOW EXCITED I SHOULD SAY.
UKRAINIANS, YOU KNOW EXCITED I SHOULD SAY. BYE-BYE, THE OCCASION, YOU
SHOULD SAY. BYE-BYE, THE OCCASION, YOU KNOW, BY
BYE-BYE, THE OCCASION, YOU KNOW, BY THEIR PRIME NATIONAL PRIDE.
KNOW, BY THEIR PRIME NATIONAL PRIDE. ARE REALLY WANT TO FIGHT.
THEIR PRIME NATIONAL PRIDE. ARE REALLY WANT TO FIGHT. SO UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK
ARE REALLY WANT TO FIGHT. SO UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK THAT LIKE IT HAPPENS
SO UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK THAT LIKE IT HAPPENS IN ANY CRISIS FOR
THAT LIKE IT HAPPENS IN ANY CRISIS FOR THE MOMENT. WE
IN ANY CRISIS FOR THE MOMENT. WE CAN‘T DO A LOT,
THE MOMENT. WE CAN‘T DO A LOT, WE CAN‘T DO A LOT
CAN‘T DO A LOT, WE CAN‘T DO A LOT BUT ACTUALLY WE SHOULD BE
WE CAN‘T DO A LOT BUT ACTUALLY WE SHOULD BE PREPARED
BUT ACTUALLY WE SHOULD BE PREPARED WHEN IT‘S POSSIBLE.
PREPARED WHEN IT‘S POSSIBLE. WE SHOULD BE PREPARED TO TRY,
WHEN IT‘S POSSIBLE. WE SHOULD BE PREPARED TO TRY, YOU KNOW, REALLY TO MOVE
WE SHOULD BE PREPARED TO TRY, YOU KNOW, REALLY TO MOVE BOTH SIDES.
YOU KNOW, REALLY TO MOVE BOTH SIDES. TO THE TABLE OF NEGOTIATION.
BOTH SIDES. TO THE TABLE OF NEGOTIATION. AND I THINK IT‘S WHAT
TO THE TABLE OF NEGOTIATION. AND I THINK IT‘S WHAT MCCOY IS TRYING TO DO AND IS
AND I THINK IT‘S WHAT MCCOY IS TRYING TO DO AND IS DOING IT WITH ACTUALLY,
MCCOY IS TRYING TO DO AND IS DOING IT WITH ACTUALLY, WITH THE AGREEMENT OF JAY
DOING IT WITH ACTUALLY, WITH THE AGREEMENT OF JAY LINSKEY IS REALLY
WITH THE AGREEMENT OF JAY LINSKEY IS REALLY TO
LINSKEY IS REALLY TO REALLY COULD TO KEEP OPEN
TO REALLY COULD TO KEEP OPEN LINE OF COMMUNICATION
REALLY COULD TO KEEP OPEN LINE OF COMMUNICATION OF A
LINE OF COMMUNICATION OF A WITH WE
OF A WITH WE FOR GENE.
WITH WE FOR GENE. STEVEN, YOU RECENTLY TOLD THE
FOR GENE. STEVEN, YOU RECENTLY TOLD THE NEW YORK TIMES THAT YOU QUOTE,
STEVEN, YOU RECENTLY TOLD THE NEW YORK TIMES THAT YOU QUOTE, FIND IT DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE
NEW YORK TIMES THAT YOU QUOTE, FIND IT DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE THAT ANY WORLD LEADER
FIND IT DIFFICULT TO BELIEVE THAT ANY WORLD LEADER INCLUDING MR. PUTIN WOULD
THAT ANY WORLD LEADER INCLUDING MR. PUTIN WOULD SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATE USING
INCLUDING MR. PUTIN WOULD SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATE USING NUCLEAR WEAPONS FOR THE SIMPLE
SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATE USING NUCLEAR WEAPONS FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THEY UNDERSTAND
NUCLEAR WEAPONS FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES,
REASON THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES, BUT YOU LOOK AT PUTIN AND IT‘S
THE CONSEQUENCES, BUT YOU LOOK AT PUTIN AND IT‘S ALSO HARD TO SEE HER AS
BUT YOU LOOK AT PUTIN AND IT‘S ALSO HARD TO SEE HER AS SOMEONE WHO‘S ACTING
ALSO HARD TO SEE HER AS SOMEONE WHO‘S ACTING RATIONALLY RIGHT NOW. HE‘S THE
SOMEONE WHO‘S ACTING RATIONALLY RIGHT NOW. HE‘S THE ONE WHO‘S DECLARING A NUCLEAR
RATIONALLY RIGHT NOW. HE‘S THE ONE WHO‘S DECLARING A NUCLEAR ALERT, NOT TO MENTION THIS
ONE WHO‘S DECLARING A NUCLEAR ALERT, NOT TO MENTION THIS BRAZEN ILLEGAL INVASION IN THE
ALERT, NOT TO MENTION THIS BRAZEN ILLEGAL INVASION IN THE FIRST PLACE.
BRAZEN ILLEGAL INVASION IN THE FIRST PLACE. WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO
FIRST PLACE. WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE
WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE WHEN IT COMES TO PUTIN‘S
BELIEVE WHEN IT COMES TO PUTIN‘S BEHAVIOR?
WHEN IT COMES TO PUTIN‘S BEHAVIOR? WHETHER HE‘S ACTING IN HIS
BEHAVIOR? WHETHER HE‘S ACTING IN HIS COUNTRY‘S, BEST INTERESTS,
WHETHER HE‘S ACTING IN HIS COUNTRY‘S, BEST INTERESTS, WHETHER HE‘S
COUNTRY‘S, BEST INTERESTS, WHETHER HE‘S A STABLE PLACE RIGHT NOW. I
WHETHER HE‘S A STABLE PLACE RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, HE‘S SITTING AT EPICALLY
A STABLE PLACE RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, HE‘S SITTING AT EPICALLY LONG TABLES
MEAN, HE‘S SITTING AT EPICALLY LONG TABLES MILES AWAY FROM HIS OWN
LONG TABLES MILES AWAY FROM HIS OWN FINANCIAL AND MILITARY
MILES AWAY FROM HIS OWN FINANCIAL AND MILITARY ADVISORS.
FINANCIAL AND MILITARY ADVISORS. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE
ADVISORS. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE LOTS OF
WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THERE ARE LOTS OF LEADERS OF LOTS OF COUNTRIES
LOTS OF LEADERS OF LOTS OF COUNTRIES WHO‘VE MADE
LEADERS OF LOTS OF COUNTRIES WHO‘VE MADE GROTESQUENESS CALCULATIONS
WHO‘VE MADE GROTESQUENESS CALCULATIONS THAT HAVE DAMAGED THEIR
GROTESQUENESS CALCULATIONS THAT HAVE DAMAGED THEIR COUNTRIES IN VARIOUS WAYS.
THAT HAVE DAMAGED THEIR COUNTRIES IN VARIOUS WAYS. SO THAT DOESN‘T MEAN THAT THEY
COUNTRIES IN VARIOUS WAYS. SO THAT DOESN‘T MEAN THAT THEY WOULD THEN CONTEMPLATE, THE
SO THAT DOESN‘T MEAN THAT THEY WOULD THEN CONTEMPLATE, THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS
WOULD THEN CONTEMPLATE, THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND THE ONLY SAVING GRACE
USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS AND THE ONLY SAVING GRACE HERE IS THE FACT THAT IT
AND THE ONLY SAVING GRACE HERE IS THE FACT THAT IT DOESN‘T TAKE A GENIUS. IT
HERE IS THE FACT THAT IT DOESN‘T TAKE A GENIUS. IT DOESN‘T TAKE EVEN A VERY
DOESN‘T TAKE A GENIUS. IT DOESN‘T TAKE EVEN A VERY STABLE PERSON
DOESN‘T TAKE EVEN A VERY STABLE PERSON TO REALIZE WHAT THE USE OF
STABLE PERSON TO REALIZE WHAT THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS WOULD BEGIN TO
TO REALIZE WHAT THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS WOULD BEGIN TO MEAN. AND FOR THAT REASON. I
NUCLEAR WEAPONS WOULD BEGIN TO MEAN. AND FOR THAT REASON. I DON‘T THINK THERE‘S A
MEAN. AND FOR THAT REASON. I DON‘T THINK THERE‘S A SERIOUS RISK HERE.
DON‘T THINK THERE‘S A SERIOUS RISK HERE. THERE IS SOME DANGER,
SERIOUS RISK HERE. THERE IS SOME DANGER, OF COURSE.
THERE IS SOME DANGER, OF COURSE. THAT‘S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY
OF COURSE. THAT‘S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE WEST HOWEVER,
THAT‘S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THE WEST HOWEVER, GREAT THE DESIRE TO PUNISH
THE WEST HOWEVER, GREAT THE DESIRE TO PUNISH RUSSIA MIGHT BE AT THIS POINT,
GREAT THE DESIRE TO PUNISH RUSSIA MIGHT BE AT THIS POINT, HAS TO BE CAREFUL
RUSSIA MIGHT BE AT THIS POINT, HAS TO BE CAREFUL AFTER ALL, IF PUTIN
HAS TO BE CAREFUL AFTER ALL, IF PUTIN IS AS
AFTER ALL, IF PUTIN IS AS IRRATIONAL AS SOME PEOPLE SAY
IS AS IRRATIONAL AS SOME PEOPLE SAY HE IS THEN THE LAST THING YOU
IRRATIONAL AS SOME PEOPLE SAY HE IS THEN THE LAST THING YOU WOULD WANT TO DO IS
HE IS THEN THE LAST THING YOU WOULD WANT TO DO IS ABSOLUTELY CORNER THEM TO
WOULD WANT TO DO IS ABSOLUTELY CORNER THEM TO START TO TALK ABOUT
ABSOLUTELY CORNER THEM TO START TO TALK ABOUT MATTERS OF REGIME CHANGE.
START TO TALK ABOUT MATTERS OF REGIME CHANGE. THE OTHER THING TO BEAR IN
MATTERS OF REGIME CHANGE. THE OTHER THING TO BEAR IN MIND IS THIS IS VERY EARLY
THE OTHER THING TO BEAR IN MIND IS THIS IS VERY EARLY IN THIS PROCESS,
MIND IS THIS IS VERY EARLY IN THIS PROCESS, RIGHT? AND AS AMBASSADOR
IN THIS PROCESS, RIGHT? AND AS AMBASSADOR A ROW SAID,
RIGHT? AND AS AMBASSADOR A ROW SAID, IT‘S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT
A ROW SAID, IT‘S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT RUSSIA WILL BE ABLE TO GAIN
IT‘S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT RUSSIA WILL BE ABLE TO GAIN MOST OF ITS
RUSSIA WILL BE ABLE TO GAIN MOST OF ITS MILITARY.
MOST OF ITS MILITARY. OBJECTIVES IN TIME THEY HAVE
MILITARY. OBJECTIVES IN TIME THEY HAVE ASSETS. THEY HAVE NOT USED
OBJECTIVES IN TIME THEY HAVE ASSETS. THEY HAVE NOT USED YET.
ASSETS. THEY HAVE NOT USED YET. THEY
YET. THEY THEY INITIAL INVASION
THEY THEY INITIAL INVASION HAS NOT GONE PARTICULARLY.
THEY INITIAL INVASION HAS NOT GONE PARTICULARLY. WELL, BUT NO ONE SHOULD ASSUME
HAS NOT GONE PARTICULARLY. WELL, BUT NO ONE SHOULD ASSUME THAT THEY
WELL, BUT NO ONE SHOULD ASSUME THAT THEY CAN‘T ULTIMATELY BE MILITARILY
THAT THEY CAN‘T ULTIMATELY BE MILITARILY SUCCESSFUL AT GREAT COST
CAN‘T ULTIMATELY BE MILITARILY SUCCESSFUL AT GREAT COST AT GREAT COST TO UKRAINE
SUCCESSFUL AT GREAT COST AT GREAT COST TO UKRAINE AND THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO
AT GREAT COST TO UKRAINE AND THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO START THINKING ABOUT
AND THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO START THINKING ABOUT WHAT‘S THE KIND OF
START THINKING ABOUT WHAT‘S THE KIND OF ARRANGEMENT THAT WOULD BE
WHAT‘S THE KIND OF ARRANGEMENT THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO US. EVEN IF
ARRANGEMENT THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO US. EVEN IF IT‘S NOT WHAT WE WOULD WANT.
ACCEPTABLE TO US. EVEN IF IT‘S NOT WHAT WE WOULD WANT. AND I THINK THE LIKELY
IT‘S NOT WHAT WE WOULD WANT. AND I THINK THE LIKELY OUTCOME HERE IS THAT NO ONE
AND I THINK THE LIKELY OUTCOME HERE IS THAT NO ONE WILL ULTIMATELY GET
OUTCOME HERE IS THAT NO ONE WILL ULTIMATELY GET WHAT THEY REALLY.
WILL ULTIMATELY GET WHAT THEY REALLY. WANTED RUSSIA IS CLEARLY NOT
WHAT THEY REALLY. WANTED RUSSIA IS CLEARLY NOT GETTING A DIVIDED.
WANTED RUSSIA IS CLEARLY NOT GETTING A DIVIDED. NATO. RUSSIA IS NOT GETTING A
GETTING A DIVIDED. NATO. RUSSIA IS NOT GETTING A CHEAP QUICK VICTORY.
NATO. RUSSIA IS NOT GETTING A CHEAP QUICK VICTORY. RUSSIA IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE
CHEAP QUICK VICTORY. RUSSIA IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DOMINATE
RUSSIA IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DOMINATE POINT. THEY PUT A PUPPET
TO DOMINATE POINT. THEY PUT A PUPPET REGIME IN THERE.
POINT. THEY PUT A PUPPET REGIME IN THERE. THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS IN
REGIME IN THERE. THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS IN WHICH RUSSIA IS GOING TO FALL
THERE ARE LOTS OF WAYS IN WHICH RUSSIA IS GOING TO FALL SHORT OF WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN
WHICH RUSSIA IS GOING TO FALL SHORT OF WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THEIR INITIAL HOPES AND
SHORT OF WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THEIR INITIAL HOPES AND OBJECTIVES
THEIR INITIAL HOPES AND OBJECTIVES POINT IS THEY TOOK CRANE MAY
OBJECTIVES POINT IS THEY TOOK CRANE MAY NOT GET WHAT IT WANTS EITHER.
POINT IS THEY TOOK CRANE MAY NOT GET WHAT IT WANTS EITHER. IT MAY NOT GET NATO
NOT GET WHAT IT WANTS EITHER. IT MAY NOT GET NATO MEMBERSHIP BECAUSE THE
IT MAY NOT GET NATO MEMBERSHIP BECAUSE THE SOLUTION TO THIS WILL BE
MEMBERSHIP BECAUSE THE SOLUTION TO THIS WILL BE ULTIMATELY
SOLUTION TO THIS WILL BE ULTIMATELY SOME KIND OF ARMED NEUTRALITY
ULTIMATELY SOME KIND OF ARMED NEUTRALITY FOR UKRAINE AND THE UNITED
SOME KIND OF ARMED NEUTRALITY FOR UKRAINE AND THE UNITED STATES MAY NOT GET EVERYTHING
FOR UKRAINE AND THE UNITED STATES MAY NOT GET EVERYTHING IT MIGHT WANT IN ALL OF THIS
STATES MAY NOT GET EVERYTHING IT MIGHT WANT IN ALL OF THIS AS WELL.
IT MIGHT WANT IN ALL OF THIS AS WELL. USUALLY WHEN YOU GET A
AS WELL. USUALLY WHEN YOU GET A PROTRACTED CONFLICT, THE ONLY
USUALLY WHEN YOU GET A PROTRACTED CONFLICT, THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE IT IS BY
PROTRACTED CONFLICT, THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE IT IS BY EVERYONE AGREEING TO GET
WAY TO SOLVE IT IS BY EVERYONE AGREEING TO GET A LITTLE BIT.
EVERYONE AGREEING TO GET A LITTLE BIT. LESS THAN THEY MIGHT HAVE
A LITTLE BIT. LESS THAN THEY MIGHT HAVE INITIALLY WANTED OR INITIALLY,
LESS THAN THEY MIGHT HAVE INITIALLY WANTED OR INITIALLY, A VERY FAIR POINT. JULIA. I
INITIALLY WANTED OR INITIALLY, A VERY FAIR POINT. JULIA. I WANT TO PICK UP ON A POINT.
A VERY FAIR POINT. JULIA. I WANT TO PICK UP ON A POINT. STEPHEN JUST MADE A MOMENT AGO
WANT TO PICK UP ON A POINT. STEPHEN JUST MADE A MOMENT AGO ABOUT YOU KNOW, YOU CAN‘T SAY
STEPHEN JUST MADE A MOMENT AGO ABOUT YOU KNOW, YOU CAN‘T SAY HE‘S A RATIONAL GUY AND
ABOUT YOU KNOW, YOU CAN‘T SAY HE‘S A RATIONAL GUY AND IRRATIONAL GUY AT THE SAME
HE‘S A RATIONAL GUY AND IRRATIONAL GUY AT THE SAME TIME. HE‘S BOTH A
IRRATIONAL GUY AT THE SAME TIME. HE‘S BOTH A HAWK WHO WANTS TO FIGHT, BUT
TIME. HE‘S BOTH A HAWK WHO WANTS TO FIGHT, BUT HE‘S SOMEONE, WE CAN
HAWK WHO WANTS TO FIGHT, BUT HE‘S SOMEONE, WE CAN INTIMIDATE AT THE SAME TIME. I
HE‘S SOMEONE, WE CAN INTIMIDATE AT THE SAME TIME. I USED TO HEAR THE SAME DEBATE
INTIMIDATE AT THE SAME TIME. I USED TO HEAR THE SAME DEBATE AROUND IRAN. IT‘S
USED TO HEAR THE SAME DEBATE AROUND IRAN. IT‘S THEY‘RE CRAZY. THEY‘RE GOING
AROUND IRAN. IT‘S THEY‘RE CRAZY. THEY‘RE GOING TO BOMB US, BUT WE CAN
THEY‘RE CRAZY. THEY‘RE GOING TO BOMB US, BUT WE CAN SANCTION THEM INTO THE GROUND
TO BOMB US, BUT WE CAN SANCTION THEM INTO THE GROUND AND THEY WON‘T RESPOND. AND I
SANCTION THEM INTO THE GROUND AND THEY WON‘T RESPOND. AND I WORRY WHEN I HEAR ADAM
AND THEY WON‘T RESPOND. AND I WORRY WHEN I HEAR ADAM KINZINGER SAYING WE COULD
WORRY WHEN I HEAR ADAM KINZINGER SAYING WE COULD BRING IN A NO-FLY ZONE,
KINZINGER SAYING WE COULD BRING IN A NO-FLY ZONE, BUT, YOU KNOW, HE‘S NOT GONNA
BRING IN A NO-FLY ZONE, BUT, YOU KNOW, HE‘S NOT GONNA RESPOND BECAUSE WE KILL
BUT, YOU KNOW, HE‘S NOT GONNA RESPOND BECAUSE WE KILL RUSSIANS IN SYRIA, LIKE
USE NUKES OR HE‘S NOT
USE NUKES OR HE‘S NOT AS THREATENING AS WE‘RE TOLD
USE NUKES OR HE‘S NOT AS THREATENING AS WE‘RE TOLD HE IS. WHICH ONE IS IT? YOU
AS THREATENING AS WE‘RE TOLD HE IS. WHICH ONE IS IT? YOU SEE THE KIND OF CONFUSION THAT
HE IS. WHICH ONE IS IT? YOU SEE THE KIND OF CONFUSION THAT I‘M
SEE THE KIND OF CONFUSION THAT I‘M IDENTIFYING.
I‘M IDENTIFYING. YEAH, AND I THINK IT‘S
IDENTIFYING. YEAH, AND I THINK IT‘S BECAUSE
YEAH, AND I THINK IT‘S BECAUSE OFTEN WHAT WE MEAN WHEN WE SAY
BECAUSE OFTEN WHAT WE MEAN WHEN WE SAY SOMEBODY IS NOT RATIONAL. WE
OFTEN WHAT WE MEAN WHEN WE SAY SOMEBODY IS NOT RATIONAL. WE MEAN THEY DON‘T THINK LIKE US
SOMEBODY IS NOT RATIONAL. WE MEAN THEY DON‘T THINK LIKE US AND PUTTING CERTAINLY DOESN‘T
MEAN THEY DON‘T THINK LIKE US AND PUTTING CERTAINLY DOESN‘T THINK LIKE AMERICANS DO BUT
AND PUTTING CERTAINLY DOESN‘T THINK LIKE AMERICANS DO BUT HE IS RATIONAL WITHIN
THINK LIKE AMERICANS DO BUT HE IS RATIONAL WITHIN HIS OWN
HE IS RATIONAL WITHIN HIS OWN PARAMETERS. IT‘S JUST LIKE
HIS OWN PARAMETERS. IT‘S JUST LIKE WE‘RE IN BASE 10, AND HE‘S IN
PARAMETERS. IT‘S JUST LIKE WE‘RE IN BASE 10, AND HE‘S IN BASE 12.
WE‘RE IN BASE 10, AND HE‘S IN BASE 12. HE IS
BASE 12. HE IS RATIONAL, WITHIN AGAIN, HIS
HE IS RATIONAL, WITHIN AGAIN, HIS LOGICAL FRAMEWORK.
RATIONAL, WITHIN AGAIN, HIS LOGICAL FRAMEWORK. AND THAT‘S WHAT WORRIES ME IS
LOGICAL FRAMEWORK. AND THAT‘S WHAT WORRIES ME IS THAT
AND THAT‘S WHAT WORRIES ME IS THAT IN HIS
THAT IN HIS FRAMEWORK. HE DOESN‘T HAVE A
IN HIS FRAMEWORK. HE DOESN‘T HAVE A LOT TO LOSE
FRAMEWORK. HE DOESN‘T HAVE A LOT TO LOSE AND HE DIDN‘T TAKE
LOT TO LOSE AND HE DIDN‘T TAKE MANY OF THE OFFER.
AND HE DIDN‘T TAKE MANY OF THE OFFER. UPSET WERE OFFERED TO HIM
MANY OF THE OFFER. UPSET WERE OFFERED TO HIM WITHIN THE LAST TWO MONTHS,
UPSET WERE OFFERED TO HIM WITHIN THE LAST TWO MONTHS, THERE WASN‘T,
WITHIN THE LAST TWO MONTHS, THERE WASN‘T, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE THERE
THERE WASN‘T, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE THERE WERE MANY
YOU KNOW, THERE WERE THERE WERE MANY DIPLOMATIC MEETINGS, BUT NOT
WERE MANY DIPLOMATIC MEETINGS, BUT NOT REALLY SERIOUS,
DIPLOMATIC MEETINGS, BUT NOT REALLY SERIOUS, NEGOTIATION. NEGOTIATION IS
REALLY SERIOUS, NEGOTIATION. NEGOTIATION IS WENT ON IF ANYTHING HE USED
NEGOTIATION. NEGOTIATION IS WENT ON IF ANYTHING HE USED THEM. THEN AS A PRETEXT TO
WENT ON IF ANYTHING HE USED THEM. THEN AS A PRETEXT TO SAY, LOOK, WE TRY
THEM. THEN AS A PRETEXT TO SAY, LOOK, WE TRY AND NOW WE‘RE INVADING UKRAINE
SAY, LOOK, WE TRY AND NOW WE‘RE INVADING UKRAINE AND NOW I WORRY THAT BECAUSE
AND NOW WE‘RE INVADING UKRAINE AND NOW I WORRY THAT BECAUSE PRECISELY BECAUSE HIS
AND NOW I WORRY THAT BECAUSE PRECISELY BECAUSE HIS INVASION ISN‘T GOING WELL THAT
PRECISELY BECAUSE HIS INVASION ISN‘T GOING WELL THAT HE WILL ESCALATE
INVASION ISN‘T GOING WELL THAT HE WILL ESCALATE BECAUSE THE WEST PUNISHED
HE WILL ESCALATE BECAUSE THE WEST PUNISHED HIM BUT
BECAUSE THE WEST PUNISHED HIM BUT DIDN‘T REALLY HAVE AN OPTION
HIM BUT DIDN‘T REALLY HAVE AN OPTION TO NOT PUNISH HIM
DIDN‘T REALLY HAVE AN OPTION TO NOT PUNISH HIM FOR
TO NOT PUNISH HIM FOR DOING THIS.
FOR DOING THIS. THAT HE WILL CONTINUE TO
DOING THIS. THAT HE WILL CONTINUE TO ESCALATE. I WORRY THAT HE WILL
THAT HE WILL CONTINUE TO ESCALATE. I WORRY THAT HE WILL TURN
ESCALATE. I WORRY THAT HE WILL TURN KIEV AND TO GROZNY. I WORRY
TURN KIEV AND TO GROZNY. I WORRY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE SAW
KIEV AND TO GROZNY. I WORRY THAT, YOU KNOW, WE SAW KHARKIV, WE SAW
THAT, YOU KNOW, WE SAW KHARKIV, WE SAW CLUSTER MUNITIONS BEING USED
KHARKIV, WE SAW CLUSTER MUNITIONS BEING USED ON CIVILIAN AREAS.
CLUSTER MUNITIONS BEING USED ON CIVILIAN AREAS. YOU KNOW, HE‘S CLEARLY
ON CIVILIAN AREAS. YOU KNOW, HE‘S CLEARLY STEPPING THINGS UP IN AND
YOU KNOW, HE‘S CLEARLY STEPPING THINGS UP IN AND PLAYING FOR MORE DIRTY AND
STEPPING THINGS UP IN AND PLAYING FOR MORE DIRTY AND BEGINNING
PLAYING FOR MORE DIRTY AND BEGINNING TO
BEGINNING TO BOMB CIVILIAN AREAS IN A WAY
TO BOMB CIVILIAN AREAS IN A WAY THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY
BOMB CIVILIAN AREAS IN A WAY THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY AVOIDING
THAT THEY WERE CLEARLY AVOIDING EARLIER.
AVOIDING EARLIER. AND THAT‘S WHAT I‘M WORRIED
EARLIER. AND THAT‘S WHAT I‘M WORRIED ABOUT BECAUSE IN THAT
AND THAT‘S WHAT I‘M WORRIED ABOUT BECAUSE IN THAT VERY RATIONAL FRAMEWORK,
ABOUT BECAUSE IN THAT VERY RATIONAL FRAMEWORK, HE
VERY RATIONAL FRAMEWORK, HE I CANNOT LOSE THIS.
HE I CANNOT LOSE THIS. HE CANNOT BE HUMILIATED BY
I CANNOT LOSE THIS. HE CANNOT BE HUMILIATED BY WHAT HE SEES AS LITTLE RUSSIA,
HE CANNOT BE HUMILIATED BY WHAT HE SEES AS LITTLE RUSSIA, AS A LITTLE COUNTRY IN HIS
WHAT HE SEES AS LITTLE RUSSIA, AS A LITTLE COUNTRY IN HIS VIEW, WITH A
AS A LITTLE COUNTRY IN HIS VIEW, WITH A FAKE
VIEW, WITH A FAKE INDEPENDENCE, WHICH SHOULD BE
FAKE INDEPENDENCE, WHICH SHOULD BE PART OF RUSSIA. AND I WORRY
INDEPENDENCE, WHICH SHOULD BE PART OF RUSSIA. AND I WORRY THAT,
PART OF RUSSIA. AND I WORRY THAT, I MEAN, WE DON‘T KNOW IF HE
THAT, I MEAN, WE DON‘T KNOW IF HE WILL USE A NUCLEAR WAR,
I MEAN, WE DON‘T KNOW IF HE WILL USE A NUCLEAR WAR, A WEAPON OR NOT. LIKE WE
WILL USE A NUCLEAR WAR, A WEAPON OR NOT. LIKE WE HOPE HE WON‘T. IT‘S LIKELY,
A WEAPON OR NOT. LIKE WE HOPE HE WON‘T. IT‘S LIKELY, BUT IT DOESN‘T MEAN HE
HOPE HE WON‘T. IT‘S LIKELY, BUT IT DOESN‘T MEAN HE WANTS A GOOD POINT BECAUSE HE
BUT IT DOESN‘T MEAN HE WANTS A GOOD POINT BECAUSE HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE HUMILIATED
WANTS A GOOD POINT BECAUSE HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE HUMILIATED HERE. HE WILL NOT LOSE
DOES NOT WANT TO BE HUMILIATED HERE. HE WILL NOT LOSE THIS.
HERE. HE WILL NOT LOSE THIS. GOOD POINT.
THIS. GOOD POINT. IT‘S A SCARY TIME. LAST
GOOD POINT. IT‘S A SCARY TIME. LAST QUESTION TO YOU. I‘M BASED ON
IT‘S A SCARY TIME. LAST QUESTION TO YOU. I‘M BASED ON SOMETHING MORE BROADER, WHICH
QUESTION TO YOU. I‘M BASED ON SOMETHING MORE BROADER, WHICH IS THIS
SOMETHING MORE BROADER, WHICH IS THIS WII?
IS THIS WII? U HAS BEEN ACTING VERY
WII? U HAS BEEN ACTING VERY GRACIOUSLY
U HAS BEEN ACTING VERY GRACIOUSLY RESPONSIBLY WITH THIS INFLUX
GRACIOUSLY RESPONSIBLY WITH THIS INFLUX OF UKRAINIAN, REFUGEES
RESPONSIBLY WITH THIS INFLUX OF UKRAINIAN, REFUGEES RIGHTFULLY. SO
OF UKRAINIAN, REFUGEES RIGHTFULLY. SO FRANCE, YOUR COUNTRY WHICH
RIGHTFULLY. SO FRANCE, YOUR COUNTRY WHICH HEADS THE EU COUNCIL
FRANCE, YOUR COUNTRY WHICH HEADS THE EU COUNCIL PRESIDENCY IS PROPOSING THAT
HEADS THE EU COUNCIL PRESIDENCY IS PROPOSING THAT THE BLOCK ADOPT A TEMPORARY
PRESIDENCY IS PROPOSING THAT THE BLOCK ADOPT A TEMPORARY PROTECTION DIRECTIVE. WHICH
THE BLOCK ADOPT A TEMPORARY PROTECTION DIRECTIVE. WHICH WOULD GRANT THOSE FLEEING THE
PROTECTION DIRECTIVE. WHICH WOULD GRANT THOSE FLEEING THE IMMEDIATE AND TEMPORARY
WOULD GRANT THOSE FLEEING THE IMMEDIATE AND TEMPORARY PROTECTION AS TALK OF THE EU
IMMEDIATE AND TEMPORARY PROTECTION AS TALK OF THE EU ASKING FOR THREE YEARS.
PROTECTION AS TALK OF THE EU ASKING FOR THREE YEARS. RESIDENCY FOR UKRAINIAN
ASKING FOR THREE YEARS. RESIDENCY FOR UKRAINIAN REFUGEES,
RESIDENCY FOR UKRAINIAN REFUGEES, BUT THIS IS COMING FROM A
REFUGEES, BUT THIS IS COMING FROM A COUNTRY
BUT THIS IS COMING FROM A COUNTRY FRANCE WHOSE LEADER.
COUNTRY FRANCE WHOSE LEADER. MACRON BACK IN AUGUST. LAST
FRANCE WHOSE LEADER. MACRON BACK IN AUGUST. LAST YEAR SAID FRANZ HAD TO PROTECT
MACRON BACK IN AUGUST. LAST YEAR SAID FRANZ HAD TO PROTECT ITSELF FROM A WAVE OF
YEAR SAID FRANZ HAD TO PROTECT ITSELF FROM A WAVE OF MIGRANTS FROM AFGHANISTAN,
ITSELF FROM A WAVE OF MIGRANTS FROM AFGHANISTAN, POLAND, AND HUNGARY OPEN
MIGRANTS FROM AFGHANISTAN, POLAND, AND HUNGARY OPEN BORDERS TO UKRAINIANS, BUT
POLAND, AND HUNGARY OPEN BORDERS TO UKRAINIANS, BUT CLOSE THEM TO AFGHANS AND
BORDERS TO UKRAINIANS, BUT CLOSE THEM TO AFGHANS AND SYRIANS. MANY WOULD SAY,
CLOSE THEM TO AFGHANS AND SYRIANS. MANY WOULD SAY, WHAT IS THAT? IF NOT STRAIGHT
SYRIANS. MANY WOULD SAY, WHAT IS THAT? IF NOT STRAIGHT UP
WHAT IS THAT? IF NOT STRAIGHT UP RACISM.
UP RACISM. NO, I THINK, YOU KNOW IT‘S
RACISM. NO, I THINK, YOU KNOW IT‘S IT‘S
NO, I THINK, YOU KNOW IT‘S IT‘S A VERY IT‘S A VERY GOOD POINT,
IT‘S A VERY IT‘S A VERY GOOD POINT, YOU KNOW,
A VERY IT‘S A VERY GOOD POINT, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE THERE, THERE ARE A
YOU KNOW, THERE WERE THERE, THERE ARE A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ON THE
THERE WERE THERE, THERE ARE A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ON THE FRENCH MEDIA.
LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ON THE FRENCH MEDIA. IT‘S ON THAT AND I THINK ON
FRENCH MEDIA. IT‘S ON THAT AND I THINK ON EUROPEAN MEDIA BECAUSE FRENCH
IT‘S ON THAT AND I THINK ON EUROPEAN MEDIA BECAUSE FRENCH IS NOT AS YOU,
EUROPEAN MEDIA BECAUSE FRENCH IS NOT AS YOU, YOUR POINT. YOU POINTED OUT
IS NOT AS YOU, YOUR POINT. YOU POINTED OUT FRANCE, POLAND, HUNGARY, BUT
YOUR POINT. YOU POINTED OUT FRANCE, POLAND, HUNGARY, BUT ALSO OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
FRANCE, POLAND, HUNGARY, BUT ALSO OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE REACTING THE SAME
ALSO OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE REACTING THE SAME I THINK. AND IT‘S NOT A WAY
ARE REACTING THE SAME I THINK. AND IT‘S NOT A WAY OF CONDONING IT OR
I THINK. AND IT‘S NOT A WAY OF CONDONING IT OR APPROVING. IT. THE FACT IS
OF CONDONING IT OR APPROVING. IT. THE FACT IS THAT
APPROVING. IT. THE FACT IS THAT THE EUROPEAN THE EUROPEANS
THAT THE EUROPEAN THE EUROPEANS FEEL CLOSER TO
THE EUROPEAN THE EUROPEANS FEEL CLOSER TO UKRAINIANS, WHO ARE
FEEL CLOSER TO UKRAINIANS, WHO ARE EUROPEANS TO PEOPLE FROM OTHER
UKRAINIANS, WHO ARE EUROPEANS TO PEOPLE FROM OTHER CONTINENT. YOU CAN SAY IT‘S A
EUROPEANS TO PEOPLE FROM OTHER CONTINENT. YOU CAN SAY IT‘S A SHAME BUT THAT‘S A FACT.
CONTINENT. YOU CAN SAY IT‘S A SHAME BUT THAT‘S A FACT. IT‘S REALLY
SHAME BUT THAT‘S A FACT. IT‘S REALLY THE WAY, BUT
IT‘S REALLY THE WAY, BUT WE GOT OPINIONS ARE REACTING
THE WAY, BUT WE GOT OPINIONS ARE REACTING REACTING
WE GOT OPINIONS ARE REACTING REACTING TODAY.
REACTING TODAY. IT‘S A FAIR POINT. I CAN TAKE
TODAY. IT‘S A FAIR POINT. I CAN TAKE WHAT YOU‘RE SAYING, BUT IT‘S
IT‘S A FAIR POINT. I CAN TAKE WHAT YOU‘RE SAYING, BUT IT‘S ALSO A FACT THEN THAT WHEN
WHAT YOU‘RE SAYING, BUT IT‘S ALSO A FACT THEN THAT WHEN EUROPEAN COUNTRY SAID, THERE‘S
ALSO A FACT THEN THAT WHEN EUROPEAN COUNTRY SAID, THERE‘S NO SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO COME
EUROPEAN COUNTRY SAID, THERE‘S NO SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN HERE. THERE‘S NO RESOURCES,
NO SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO COME IN HERE. THERE‘S NO RESOURCES, THAT WASN‘T TRUE. THERE IS
IN HERE. THERE‘S NO RESOURCES, THAT WASN‘T TRUE. THERE IS SPACE AND RESOURCES WHEN IT‘S
THAT WASN‘T TRUE. THERE IS SPACE AND RESOURCES WHEN IT‘S PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE YOU AS
SPACE AND RESOURCES WHEN IT‘S PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE YOU AS YOU‘RE CONCEDING.
PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE YOU AS YOU‘RE CONCEDING. OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, REALLY I
YOU‘RE CONCEDING. OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, REALLY I DEFEND,
OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, REALLY I DEFEND, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF SAYING
DEFEND, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF SAYING WE
YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF SAYING WE CAN WE TAKE UKRAINIANS AND WE
WE CAN WE TAKE UKRAINIANS AND WE DON‘T TAKE AFGHANS, YOU KNOW,
CAN WE TAKE UKRAINIANS AND WE DON‘T TAKE AFGHANS, YOU KNOW, REALLY, YOU KNOW, I ALSO
DON‘T TAKE AFGHANS, YOU KNOW, REALLY, YOU KNOW, I ALSO LIKE YOUR OLD COUNTRY LIKE
REALLY, YOU KNOW, I ALSO LIKE YOUR OLD COUNTRY LIKE IN THE
LIKE YOUR OLD COUNTRY LIKE IN THE U.S. I WILL MENTION AGGRESSION
IN THE U.S. I WILL MENTION AGGRESSION HAS BECOME A SORT OF
U.S. I WILL MENTION AGGRESSION HAS BECOME A SORT OF TOXIC TOPIC
HAS BECOME A SORT OF TOXIC TOPIC AND WHICH IS USED BY THE
TOXIC TOPIC AND WHICH IS USED BY THE FAR
AND WHICH IS USED BY THE FAR RIGHT OVER OUR POWERFUL. THE
FAR RIGHT OVER OUR POWERFUL. THE FIGHT IS EVERYWHERE
RIGHT OVER OUR POWERFUL. THE FIGHT IS EVERYWHERE AND THE FACT IS, BY THE WAY
FIGHT IS EVERYWHERE AND THE FACT IS, BY THE WAY THAT THE FRENCH ARE GOING
AND THE FACT IS, BY THE WAY THAT THE FRENCH ARE GOING TO ELECT A NEW PRESIDENT
THAT THE FRENCH ARE GOING TO ELECT A NEW PRESIDENT IN SIX WEEKS.
TO ELECT A NEW PRESIDENT IN SIX WEEKS. SO, OBVIOUSLY
IN SIX WEEKS. SO, OBVIOUSLY EACH IT‘S A FACTOR IN.
SO, OBVIOUSLY EACH IT‘S A FACTOR IN. IT IS INDEED, INTERESTING
EACH IT‘S A FACTOR IN. IT IS INDEED, INTERESTING TIMES. STEPHEN WALTERS JR.
IT IS INDEED, INTERESTING TIMES. STEPHEN WALTERS JR. YOUR FEET AND AMBASSADOR.
TIMES. STEPHEN WALTERS JR. YOUR FEET AND AMBASSADOR. OH, THANK YOU ALL FOR