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>> We're here live in Las Vegas
with theCUBE's coverage of Amazon re:MARS.
It's a re:Invent, re:MARS, re:Inforce,
the big three shows called the res.
This is MARS, machine learning,
automation, robotics and space.
It's a program about the future.
And the future of innovation around industrial,
cloud scale, climate change, the moon,
a lot of great topics,
really connecting all the dots together here
in Las Vegas with Amazon re:MARS.
I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE.
Our first guess is Howard Hu,
Program Manager NASA Orion program.
Howard is involved with all the action
in space and the moon project, which we'll get into.
Howard, thanks for coming on theCUBE.
>> Well, hey, thanks for having me here this morning.
Appreciate you guys inviting me here.
>> So this show is not obvious to the normal tech observer,
the insiders in the industry.
It's the confluence of a lot of things coming together.
It's going to be obvious very soon
because the stuff they're showing here is pretty impressive.
It's motivating, it's positive,
and it's a force for change in good.
All of it coming together, space, machine learning,
robotics, industrial.
You have one of the coolest areas in space.
What's going on with the Orion program?
You guys got the big moon project.
Statement to explain.
>> Well, let me tell you, I'll start with Orion.
Orion is our next human space craft.
That's going to take humans beyond low earth orbit
and we're part of the broader Artemis campaign.
So Artemis is our plan, our NASA plan
to return the first person of color,
first woman back to the moon.
And we're very excited to do that.
We have several missions that I could talk to you about
starting with in a very few months, Artemis one.
So Artemis one is going to fly on the space launch system,
which is going to be the biggest rocket,
we call it the mega rocket,
has been built since the Saturn five,
on top of the SLS is the Orion spacecraft
and that Orion spacecraft houses four crew members
for up to 21 days in deep space.
And we'll have an un-crew test in a few months
launch on the SLS.
And Orion's going to go around the moon for up to 40 days.
On Artemis two, we will have the first test of the humans
on board Orion.
So four people will fly on Artemis two.
We'll also circle the moon for about 10 to 12 days.
And then our third mission will be our landing.
>> So the moon is back in play.
Obviously, it's close to the earth.
So it's a short flight relatively speaking
the Mars is a little bit further out.
I see everyone got his nose with what's going on in Mars.
A lot of people are interested in Mars, moon's closer.
>> Howard: Yes.
>> But there's also new things going on around discovery.
Can you share the big story around why the moon?
Why is the moon so important?
and why is everyone so excited about it?
>> Yeah, coming to this conference
and talking about sustainability,
exploration is I think ingrained in our DNA
but it's more than just exploration,
it's about projecting human presence beyond our earth.
And these are the stepping stones.
Amazon talks about day one.
Now think about, we are on those very early days
where we're building the infrastructure.
So Orion is a transportation infrastructure
and we're going to build infrastructure on the moon
to learn how to live on a surface
and how to utilize the assets.
And then that's very important
because it's very expensive to carry fuel, to carry water
and all the necessities that you need to survive
as a human being in outer space.
If you can generate that on the surface
or on the planet you go to,
and this is a perfect way to do it
because it's very in your backyard, as I told you earlier.
So for future mission when you want to go to Mars,
you're nine months out,
you really want to make sure you have the technologies
and you're able to utilize those technologies robustly
and in a sustainable way.
>> Yeah, we were talking before you came on camera,
camping in your backyard is a good practice round
before you go out into the wilderness.
This is what's going on here,
but there's also the discovery angle.
I just see so much science going on there.
So if you can get to the moon, get a base camp there,
get set up, then things could come out of that.
What are some of the things that you guys are talking about
that you see as possible exploration upside?
>> Yeah, well, several things.
One is power generation.
Recently we just released some contracts
from friction power,
so long sustainable power capability
is very, very important.
The other technologies that you need utilized
is regenerative, air, water, things that you need for that,
but then there's a science aspect of it,
which is, we're going to the south pole
where we think there's a lot of water potentially
or available water that we can extract
and utilize that to generate fuel.
So liquid hydrogen, liquid oxygen
is one of the areas that are very interesting.
And of course, lunar minerals are very exciting,
very interesting to bring and be able to mine potentially
in the future depending on what is there.
>> Well, a lot of cool stuff happening.
What's your take on this show here,
obviously, NASA's reputation as innovators
and deep technologists,
big moonshot missions, pun intended here.
You got a lot of other explorations.
What's this show bring together, share your perspective
because I think the story here to me
is you got walkout retail, like the Amazon technology,
you got Boston Dynamics, the dog everyone loves
that's walking around.
And then you got supply chain, robotics,
machine learning, and space.
It all points to one thing, innovation around industrial.
I think, what's your take?
>> I think one of the things is,
normally we are innovating in our aerospace industry.
I think there's so much to learn from innovation
across all these areas you described
and trying to pull some of that into the spacecraft.
When you're a human being sitting in spacecraft,
it's more than just flying the spacecraft.
You have interaction with displays,
you have a lot of technologies
that you normally would want to interact with
on the ground that you could apply in space to help you
and make your tasks easier.
And I think those are things that are really important
as we look across the whole entire innovative infrastructure
that I see here in this show.
How can we extract some that
and apply it in the space program.
I think there is a very significant leveraging
that you could do off of that.
>> What are some of the cool things
that are not going to last
because, to me it's like we're in the cloud, we love gadge.
But I've never had the luxury of peeking through the curtain
behind the curtain, to look at what's going on.
What are some of the cool things
that people who aren't following day-to-day?
>> Well, certainly,
the Artemis mission, Artemis campaign
is one of the coolest things I could think of.
That's why I came into,
I think wrapping around that
where we are not only just going to a destination,
but we're exploring
and we're trying to establish
a very clear long term presence
that will allow us to engage what I think is the next step,
which is science, and science,
and the things that can come out of that
in terms of scientific discoveries.
And I think the coolest thing would be,
hey, could we take the things that we are in the labs
and the innovation relative to power generation,
relative to energy,
development of energy technologies, robotics
to utilize, to help explore the surface.
And of course, the science that comes out of just naturally
when you go somewhere, you don't know what to expect.
And I think that's what the exciting thing.
And for NASA, we're putting a program,
an infrastructure around that.
I think that's really exciting.
Of course, the other parts of NASA is science.
And so the partnering those two pieces together
to accomplish a very important mission
for everybody on planet earth is really important.
>> And also it's a curiosity.
People are being curious about what's going on now in space
'cause the costs are down and you got universities here
and you got the confluence of robotics and industrial.
This is going to provide a new ground for education,
younger generation coming up.
What would you share to teachers and potential students,
people who want to learn.
What's different about now than the old generation
and what's the same?
What the same and what's new?
How does someone get their arms around this,
their mind around it?
Where can they jump in?
This is going to open up the aperture for talent.
With all the technology, it's not one dimensional.
>> Yeah, I think what is still true is core sciences,
math, engineering, the hard science, chemistry, biology.
I think those are really also very important,
but what we're we're getting today
is the amount of collaboration we're able to do,
I guess, organically.
And I think the innovation that's driven
by a lot of this collaboration where you have these tools
and your ability to engage
and then you're able to get,
I would say the best out of people
in lots of different areas.
And that's what I think one of the things we're learning
at NASA is we have a broad spectrum of people
that come to work for us and we're pulling that.
And now we're coming to these kinds of things
where we're getting even more innovation ideas
and partnerships so that we are not just off on our own
thinking about the problem,
we're branching out and allowing a lot of other people
to help us solve the problems that we need.
>> I've noticed with space force too,
I had the same conversations around those
with those guys as well.
Collaboration and public private partnerships are huge.
You're seeing a lot more cross pollination
of funding, technology, software.
How do you do break/fix in space?
It's software, right?
So you got to have, it's got to work.
So you got security challenges.
This is a new frontier.
>> Howard: It is, it is.
>> The cybersecurity, the usability,
the operationalizing for humans,
not just pro typical scientists and astronauts
who work in peak shape,
we're talking about humans.
What's the big problem to solve?
Is it security?
What would you say the big challenges are?
>> Yeah, I think information
and access to information
and how we interact with information
is probably our biggest challenge
because we have very limited space
in terms of not only mass, but just volume.
You want to reserve the space for the people
and they need to,
you want to maximize your space
that you're having in spacecraft.
And so I think having access to information,
being able to to utilize information
and quickly access systems so you can solve problems,
'cause you don't know when you're in deep space,
you're several months out to Mars
what problems you might encounter and what kind of systems
and access to information you need
to help you solve the problems.
Both from a just unplanned contingencies,
or even planned contingencies where you want to make sure
you have that information to do it.
So information is going to be very vital
as we go out into deep space.
>> And the infrastructure's changed.
How has the infrastructure changed
in terms of support services?
See, in the United States,
just the growth of aerospace you mentioned earlier
is just phenomenal.
You've got smaller, faster, cheaper equipment.
Density, it solved the technology.
Where's there going to be the big game changing movement?
Where do you see it go?
Is it Artemis three, it kicks in.
Artemis one, actually the first one, unmanned one.
But where do in your mind, do you see key milestones
that are going to be super important to watch?
>> I think we've already pushed the boundaries
in terms of applying our aerospace technologies
for Artemis one and certainly two,
we've got those in work already.
And so we've got that,
those vehicles already in work and built.
One already at the at the Kennedy Space Center
ready for launch.
But starting with three
because you have a lot more interaction,
you got to take the crew down with a Lander,
a human landing system.
You got to build rovers.
You got to build a capability which they could explore.
So starting with three and then four,
we're building the gateway.
Gateway's orbiting platform around the moon.
So for all future missions after Artemis three,
we're going to take Orion to the gateway.
The crew gets into the orbit platform.
They get on a human landing system and they go down.
So all that interaction, all that infrastructure,
and all the support equipment you need,
not only in the orbit of the moon,
but also down on the ground
is going to drive a lot of innovation.
You're going to have to realize, oh hey, I needed this.
Now I need to figure out how to get something there.
And how much of the robotics
and how much AI you need will be very interesting
because you'll need these assistants
to help you do your daily routine
or lessen your daily routine
so you can focus on the science
and you can focus on doing the advancing those technologies
that you're going to need.
>> And you got to have the infrastructure.
It's like a road.
>> Howard: Yeah.
>> You want to go pop down to the moon,
you just pop down, it's already built, it's ready for you.
Come back up,
so just ease of use from a deployment standpoint is.
>> And the infrastructure, the things that you're going to need,
what is a hub going to look like?
What are you going to need in a habitat?
Are you going to be able to have the power
that you're going to have?
How many power stations are you going to need?
Right?
So all these things are going to be really,
things are going to be driven
by what you need to do the mission.
And that drives, I think a lot of innovation,
it's very much like the end goal.
What are you trying to solve?
And then you go, okay, here's what I need to solve,
then build things to solve that problem.
>> There's so many things involved in the mission
that I can imagine.
Safety's huge, number one, got to be up safe.
Space is dangerous game.
It's not pleasant up there.
Not for the faint of heart as you say.
>> Not for the faint heart, that's correct.
>> What's the big safety concerns obviously
besides blowing up and oxygen and water and the basic needs?
>> I think you said it very well,
it is not for the faint of heart.
We try to minimize risk.
Ascent is one of the big,
you're sitting under 8.8 million pounds of thrust
on the launch vehicle.
So it is going very fast and you're flying
and it's light
'cause we got solid rocket motors too as well.
Once they're lit, they're lit.
So we have a escape system on Orion
that allows a crew to be safe.
And of course, we build in redundancy.
That's the other thing I think that will drive innovation.
You build redundancy in the system,
but you also think about the kind of issues
that you would run into potentially
from a safety perspective.
How you going to get out of a situation
if you get hit by a meteorite, right?
You are going through the Van Ellen belt,
you have radiation.
So you know some of these things that are harsh
on your vehicle and on the human side of the shop too.
And so when you have to do these things,
you have to think about what are you going to protect for
and how do you go protect for that?
And we have to find innovations for that.
>> Yeah, and it's also going to be a really exciting area
for engineering work.
And you mentioned the data,
data's huge, simulations, running scenarios.
This is where the AI comes in.
And that seems to me where the dots connect for me
when you start thinking about how to run those simulations,
to identify what's possible.
>> I think that's a great point
because we have all this computing capability
and because we can run simulations
and because we can collect data, we have terabytes of data,
but it's very challenging
for humans to analyze at that level.
So AI is one of the things we're looking at
which is trying to systematically
have a process by which data is called through
so that the engineering mind is only looking
at the things and focus on things that are problematic.
So we repeat tests, every flight,
you don't have to look at all the terabytes of data
of each test.
You have a computer AI do that.
And you allow yourself
to look at just the pieces that don't look right
and have anomalies in the data.
Then you're going to do that digging, right?
That's where the power of those kinds of technologies
can really help us
because we have that capability to do a lot of computing.
>> And I think that's why this show to me is important
because it shows for the first time
at least from my coverage of the industry
where technology's not the bottleneck anymore,
it's human mind.
And we want to live in a peaceful world with climate.
We want to have the earth around for a while.
So climate change was a huge topic yesterday
and how the force for good,
what could come out of the moon shots
is to help for earth.
Better understanding there, all good.
What's your take on the show?
If you had to summarize this show, re:MARS,
from the NASA perspective.
Also you, the essence space.
What's going on here?
What's the big story?
>> Yeah, for me, I think it's eye-opening
in terms of how much innovation is happening
across a spectrum of areas.
And I look at various things like bots
and scientific robots, the dog that's walking around.
To think people are applying it
in different ways and then those applications
in a lot of ways are very similar
to what we need for exploration going forward.
And how do you apply some of these technologies
to the space program and how do we leverage that?
How do we leverage that innovation
and how we take
the innovations already happening organically
for other reasons
and how would those help us solve those problems
that we're going to encounter going forward
as we try to live on another planet?
>> Well, congratulations on a great assignment.
You got a great job.
>> Howard: I do.
>> Super fun, I love being an observer and I love space.
I love how the innovation's there.
And plus space is cool.
How many millions of live views do you see?
Everyone's stopping work to watch SpaceX land
and NASA do their work.
It's bringing back the tech vibe.
You know what I'm saying?
It's just things are going,
you're going to get good tailwind, congratulations.
>> Yeah, thank you very much, I appreciate it.
>> Thanks for coming on theCUBE.
Okay, this is theCUBE coverage.
I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE here,
Live in Las Vegas back at re:Invent, re:Inforce, re:MARS,
the re-series coverage here at re:MARS.
We'll be back with more coverage after this short break.
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