PAUL LEWIS: So we're back.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: Yes.
PAUL LEWIS: And I've grown a beard
in the interim, where I think gives it a distinct, you know,
distinguished look.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: It's just to have some hair,
right, in a place.
PAUL LEWIS: To be fair, I think it's a character progression.
Those who are more important to the plot,
they obviously progress more than perhaps,
say others, because the only progression you're
offering right now seems to be a plaster
on the side of your head.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: So the plaster, yes.
PAUL LEWIS: Yes, the plaster.
What are you doing, exactly?
JAKE ARCHIBALD: Yeah, I had a shaving accident.
PAUL LEWIS: What are you shaving up there for?
JAKE ARCHIBALD: It's not really.
Actually, I had an allergic reaction to some sun cream.
PAUL LEWIS: Really?
JAKE ARCHIBALD: And of all the things,
I need sun cream really badly.
If I'm developing an allergic reaction to that,
I am properly screwed.
PAUL LEWIS: Yeah it's like everything hates you.
At this point, it's just like something's just
trying to fry you to a crisp.
You're basically stuffed.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: I'm speaking at a conference that--
PAUL LEWIS: It's not in Barbados, is it?
JAKE ARCHIBALD: It's in Austin in July.
Yeah, I know, right?
I am going to walk off the plane and then just BOOF!
I'm just going to be turned into a shadow
on the side of the wall.
That's me going--
PAUL LEWIS: Some smoking trailers.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: Yeah.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
PAUL LEWIS: Web versus native.
That's still getting a lot of air time, and that bothers me.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: It will until native dies.
PAUL LEWIS: Yeah, you fall into that--
a little bit of the zealot camp sometimes, don't you?
JAKE ARCHIBALD: Yeah, OK.
PAUL LEWIS: You're like, the web should do everything.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: The web should do everything.
PAUL LEWIS: No, it shouldn't.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: What shouldn't the web do?
PAUL LEWIS: There's nothing wrong with native taking over--
JAKE ARCHIBALD: Whoa!
PAUL LEWIS: --when you want closeness
to the platform in question.
That's OK.
There's nothing wrong with that.
There's some stuff that native is actually good for today.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: What?
Tell me what it's good for.
What do you use native for that can't be done on the web?
PAUL LEWIS: I think offline is still not sorted,
and I think notifications--
JAKE ARCHIBALD: Offline's sorted.
We fixed offline.
ServiceWorker shipped at the start of the year.
PAUL LEWIS: Not for iOS, right?
Like, for example, if you talk about what
apps do I use on native, it's Tweetbot
is one of the most obvious ones, email as well.
I'll do that.
Again, it's offline, and most of them
give me notifications like Tweetbot
will let me know when I've got a direct message
or when somebody @replies me, which the web can't do.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: We've got notifications as well.
Chrome 42.
PAUL LEWIS: What the web will do.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: But that does do--
I mean, OK, it's only on Chrome at the moment, Firefox
coming soon, but that's the web doing it, right?
PAUL LEWIS: Yeah, but today, it's still a bit iffy.
Given a long enough timeline, yes, I
think the web will take those bits,
and there will be more things that
can be done on web that you would do on
native today, right?
So that's absolutely fine.
What I still think is-- there's this sort of smooth on-ramp
for the web, right?
Where it's like you give somebody a URL.
There's no app stores.
There's no play stores.
There's nothing like that.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: You inherit shareability
by just being able to give someone that bit of text,
and they will get to see the thing you were looking at.
PAUL LEWIS: And so there's no friction there, right?
Just go to the URL, do the thing.
Hopefully it will answer your question, right?
JAKE ARCHIBALD: Yeah.
Yeah, and when we compare native to web,
I feel that we often compare it like no-cache web
to installed app when really you should
be comparing non-installed app.
You have to go to the app store.
You install that megabytes worth of stuff, whereas the web, you
just get your own-- get the content.
PAUL LEWIS: Right.
But at the same time, that's slightly ludicrous to say,
to use this app, you must first install this app, right?
But that's the web's model, is to say,
you've got to go from cold.
We assume you've got nothing.
With native, we're going to assume you can,
that you've got it already.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: For me, that's the joy of the web.
As you say, someone gives you a URL,
and you could be with the content in just seconds later.
Even though you've never been to that site before,
you don't have to go and install megabytes of stuff.
You just get it.
I really hate that so many websites circumvent
that part of the web.
You'll get a website which wants to-- wants you to answer
a survey before you can see the content
or wants you to download the native app before you
can see the content.
PAUL LEWIS: No, no.
Always no, no, no.
I'm not here for your survey.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: Have you ever seen
someone trying to take a survey in London Bridge?
PAUL LEWIS: No.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: Well, they're standing there,
clipboard in hand.
Everyone comes off the train, but no one wants to stop.
Everyone knows where they're going.
You see the look of horror on the face of the person
with the clipboard.
It reminds me of that scene in "Lion King" where
Simba's in the canyon and all the wildebeests come down
on them.
And I say don't-- when people want to do a thing,
they've got a destination to get to, don't start getting
in their way.
PAUL LEWIS: Fact.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: And this is why we
hate the kind of-- do you want to install our native apps?
No, I've gone to the URL with the bit of content
that I would like.
Why can't you just show me that?
PAUL LEWIS: Yeah, yeah.
Finally, on the whole web versus native thing,
the thing I do definitely love is
that there's no SDK download for the web, right?
JAKE ARCHIBALD: You don't have to build the Eclipse
monstrosity thing.
You don't have to dump that on your machine.
I mean, even things like Xcode, how many gigabytes is Xcode?
PAUL LEWIS: Five or six.
I can't believe I actually knew that.
That was a little bit weird.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: And with the web, it's just a text file.
PAUL LEWIS: Yeah.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: You can write DOCTYPE, HTML, Hello World--
PAUL LEWIS: Don't have to do the DOCTYPE, if I'm honest.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: I think you do have to do the DOCTYPE.
PAUL LEWIS: Don't have to.
JAKE ARCHIBALD: You don't want it in quotes,
but OK, even then, you could have
something working in a browser.
It's super easy to get started.
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