MUCH EARLIER THAN ORIGINALLY THOUGHT.
THOUGHT. SAVANNAH?
SAVANNAH? >> PETER, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
WITH US NOW, NBC NEWS POLITICAL
ANALYST FORMER DEMOCRATIC
SENATOR AND A LEADING
CONSERVATIVE THEIR, EDITOR OF
THE NATIONAL REVIEW AND AUTHOR
OF THE BOOK "THE CASE FOR
NATIONALISM."
NATIONALISM." LET’S TALK ABOUT GORDON
SONDLAND’S TESTIMONY.
SONDLAND’S TESTIMONY. HE IS A TRUMP ALLY.
HE GAVE A MILLION BUCKS TO THE
TRUM P
TRUM P TRUMP INAUGURAL.
TRUMP INAUGURAL. HE TESTIFIED IT ALL HINGED ON A
POLITICAL FAVOR FOR THE
PRESIDENT.
PRESIDENT. HE SAID EVERYBODY KNEW ABOUT IT,
TOO.
TOO. DOES THIS CHANGE THE CALCULUS?
>> I DON’T THINK IT CHANGES IT.
I THINK EVERYONE IS DUG IN.
THERE WAS MORE DRAMA TO THIS.
THE INITIAL DEPOSITION WAS NOT
CREDIBLE.
CREDIBLE. THE QUESTION IS WHERE HE’S GOING
TO LAND ON THE NEW STORY AND THE
APPROACH HE TOOK, I’M GOING TO
SPILL MY GUTS AND SPREAD
RESPONSIBILITY AS FAR AS
POSSIBLE.
POSSIBLE. VERY GOOD WITNESS FOR THE
DEMOCRATS.
DEMOCRATS. CREATES A DILEMMA THOUGH.
THERE IS A DIRECT FACTUAL
CONFLICT NOW WITH PENCE AND WITH
POMPEO.
POMPEO. HE UNDERLINED MULVANEY’S ROLE.
SO THE DEMOCRATS, DO THEY TAKE
THE TIME TO TRY TO GET FIRSTHAND
WITNESSES?
WITNESSES? >> AND THERE IS A DIFFERENT
STORY ABOUT WHAT BOLTON KNEW.
DO THE DEMOCRATS TRY TO GO TO
THE COURT FIGHT AND ALL THOSE
INDIVIDUALS, BY THE WAY, ARE
REFUSING TO TESTIFY UPON THE
WHITE HOUSE’S DEMANDS.
SHOULD THE DEMOCRATS GO TO A
COURT AND SAY WE NEED THIS
TESTIMONY OR SHOULD THEY JUST
RUSH IT SFLOU.
>> THROUGH?
>> THROUGH? >> THEY HAVE A MOUNTAIN OF
EVIDENCE AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE
HOLDING ON TO A TINY LITTLE FIG
LEAF BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT
DIDN’T SIGN A CONFESSION IN
BLOOD.
BLOOD. I THINK THE DEMOCRATS SHOULD
MOVE ON AND MOVE FORWARD WITH
WHAT THEY V BUTHAVE BUT THEY CAN
SIMULTANEOUSLY TRY TO GET SOME
OF THESE THINGS DECIDED IN
COURT.
COURT. ONE THING SONDLAND DID YESTERDAY
IS SAID OVER AND OVER AND OVER
AGAIN, I WISH I COULD GET THE
DOCUMENTS.
DOCUMENTS. IT’S LIKE HELLO, FOLKS, THERE’S
A BUNCH OF PAPER OUT THERE THAT
YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING AT AND THE
WHITE HOUSE, OF COURSE, IS
KEEPING NOT JUST WITNESSES FROM
CONGRESS BUT ALL OF THE CON
TEMPERATURE FOR AIRIN’ E-MAILS
AND NOTES SURROUNDING ALL THIS
STUFF.
STUFF. AND I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE
A LOT OF EVIDENCE IN THOSE
NOTES.
NOTES. SO THEY NEED TO TRY TO GET THEM.
>> THE DEMOCRATS MAY SAY WELL IN
IS YOUR OBSTRUCTION CHARGE RIGHT
THERE BY THE REFUSAL TO TURN
OVER WITNESSES AND EVIDENCE.
YOU MENTIONED IT BRIEFLY.
SONDLAND DID HAVE SOME POINTS
THAT WERE FAVORABLE TO THE
PRESIDENT WHEN HE SAID THE
PRESIDENT NEVER MENTIONED AID TO
UKRAINE AND WHEN HE ASKED HIM AN
OPEN ENDED QUESTION WHAT DO YOU
FWRANT
FWRANT WANT FROM UKRAINE?
THE PRESIDENT SAYS I WANT
NOTHING.
NOTHING. HE WROTE IT DOWN IN BHAKLACK SHA
AND DELIVERED IT TO THE WHITE
HOUSE.
HOUSE. >> THAT OCCURRED ON THE SAME DAY
THAT THE BHOUS FOUND OUT ABOUT
THE WHISTLE-BLOWER COMPLAINT AND
THE ENSUING INVESTIGATION.
SO CLEARLY HIS CULPABILITY WAS
ON HIS MIND AND HE IMMEDIATELY
OFFERED THAT.
OFFERED THAT. AND I WOULD JUST THROW THIS OUT
THERE.
THERE. THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN KNOWN TO
NOT TELL THE TRUTH.
>> LET ME ASK YOU.
THE BIG PICTURE HERE, I FEEL
LIKE THE DEMOCRATS HAVE A TWO
PRONGED BURDEN OF PROOF HERE.
THEY HAVE TO PROVE THE
UNDERLYING CONTACT.
UNDERLYING CONTACT. AND IF THAT CONTACT HAPPENED, IT
WARRANTS IMPEACHMENT.
WARRANTS IMPEACHMENT. IS THAT BIGGER HURDLE FOR
DEMOCRATS?
DEMOCRATS? >> IF THIS WERE AN EFFORT LIKE
WAY BACK IN THE REAGAN YEARS,
THE IRAN-CONTRA HEARINGS, JUST
AN EFFORT TO HAVE HEARINGS, TO
GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THE FACTS
AND TO EXTRACT DAMAGING
REVELATIONS, THIS WILL BE A HOME
RUN FOR THE DEMOCRATS.
THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THIS
EPISODE ITSELF CAN BEAR THE
WEIGHT OF IMPEACHING AND
REMOVING A PRESIDENT FOR THE
FIRST TIME IN OUR HISTORY.
I THINK THE ANSWER IS NO.
>> WHY IS IT NO?
IS IT AN ABUSE OF POWER TO SAY
THIS MILITARY AID PASS BID BOTH
HOUSES OF CONGRESS AND
BIPARTISAN BASIS UKRAINE IS
UNDER THE POINT OF A GUN FROM
RUSSIA OUR ADVERSARY, WHY IS
THAT NOT AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE?
>> OBVIOUSLY IMPROPER.
ABOUT UT WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE
PUNISHMENT, YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER
THE HARM.
THE HARM. THIS IS WHERE THEY’RE ON THE
STRONGEST GROUND.
STRONGEST GROUND. THEY HAVE BEGUN TO RETREAT TO
IT.
IT. UKRAINE GOD THE AID AND DIDN’T
INVESTIGATE ANYONE.
INVESTIGATE ANYONE. >> DEMOCRATS DO HAVE A HARD ROAD
HERE.
HERE. 70% OF AMERICANS SAY THEY
THOUGHT THE CONDUCT WAS WRONG.
HALF OF THEM THINK IMPEACHMENT
AND REMOVAL IS WARRANTED HERE.
SO THEY’RE KIND OF MORE ON WHERE
RICH LOWRY STANDS ON THIS.
>> YEAH.
>> YEAH. I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO HAVE TO DO A GUT CHECK
HERE.
HERE. WHERE IS THE LINE?
IF THIS SNDISN’T A LINE, CAN WE
OKAY GOING FORWARD?
CAN PRESIDENTS ASK FOREIGN
COUNTRIES TOINT FEAR IN OUR
REELECTIONS FOR N. RETURN FOR
DULY PASSED APPROPRIATIONS IN
CONGRESS.
CONGRESS. THAT’S A VERY DANGEROUS ROAD.
>> THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WITH ME.
JUST HEARD IT.
>> I’M PLAYING DEVIL’S ADVOCATE
HERE.
HERE. EVERYBODY GETS A CHALLENGING
QUESTION.
QUESTION. OKAY?
OKAY? RICH AND SENATOR, THANK YOU SO