amended complaint, the Brian Flores case with the addition
of Steve Wilks, the one year Arizona Cardinals, head coach
Ray Horton. Who sued the Tennessee Titans because he was
passed over
in the Sham hiring processes. Mike Mularkey, admitted it to be
in September of 2020. One of the most amazing interviews
I've ever heard. And I've now resolved, whenever interviewing
anyone to include the question. Do you have any regrets
because you never know?
What they're going to say
and there's a chance
they're going to confess to something
that you never would have expected.
Anyway, give me your thoughts as you process, what's going on
for the past day or so, this case now has triple
the plaintiffs
three, more teams added to it.
Obviously the second complaint didn't get as much attention as
the first one because the first one was the first time somebody
crossed that bridge that the NFL probably assume would never
happen. But now we've got three
and now we've got different.
Names and it feels like the average person. There's some
meat there. What's your take on what we heard and learned
yesterday
in some ways. I almost feel like
this is a bigger deal. Especially when it comes to Ray
Horton and Mike Mularkey and the Tennessee Titans, right?
I think that's pretty much in this close to getting caught
red-handed as we've ever seen
with somebody or at least in, you know, lately, right? With
somebody totally violating the Any wool, you know, I have
nothing else. Like this should result in a pretty heavy fine
for the Tennessee Titans. When you have somebody who was
a part of that process, literally telling you that this is what
happened, and this was my understanding of it and we
have, you know, I had conversations with the general
manager and we were like, I don't
even know. I'm interviewing you, we know what the result of
this is before it occurs. So we've seen teams get fined for
violating the Rooney Roo. Before,
but, especially when this occurred in 2016. This is not
something that should have happened. And frankly. It makes
me feel like, oh, you know, the Titans thought. Well,
we, of course, know who our head coach is going to be
because he was already. Here was the interim guy. We know
him, we knew this, you know, like
that's different than what it should be. Right. And that's
a violation of the rules, plain, and simple. And so, when you
have this kind of verb, Real Smoking Gun. You're catching.
Somebody red-handed like this,
that I think makes a huge huge difference in what it is that
we're talking about because you're right. I mean, it was
a pretty remarkable interview where, you know, this kind of
got lost in the sense of an hour-long podcast,
on a Steelers fan podcast thing that, you know, yesterday when
I saw it only had, I think 1200 views on YouTube, which kind of
tells you
exactly how unpopular.
Was and why this got buried. So I think I saw you and sharing
talking about yesterday. Somebody probably alerted it.
Whether it was Ray Horton
or Brian Flores or whoever like hey, this exists in this is out
there and you might want to take a look at it because it
speaks to exactly what you're talking about. In this lawsuit.
I wouldn't be surprised as I said yesterday, if Mike
Mularkey, was the one who made someone aware of it, after
the Brian Flores lawsuit was filed, because when you listen to
the earnest manner in which he did, Livers that regret that he
had for being part of a sham hiring process. It wouldn't
surprise me if he reached out to someone and said, hey, you
should go back
and listen to this now. Now two things I have to say one
the problem with the NFL being expected to do the right thing
here. Is that the NFL would be doing it in the context of also
defending this claim.
So similarly to
The Dolphins
allegation made by Brian Flores that Stephen Ross offered
a hundred thousand dollars per lost in 2019. The NFL has no
real incentive to find
that Ross. Did it and tell the world that Ross did it. Same
thing with the Titans. The NFL has no incentive to find that
what Mike Mularkey is saying is accurate and the Titans did
violate the, Rooney Rule because it's all happening
in the confines of a lawsuit that the NFL needs to defend
itself against. Why is the NFL going to make?
The process, any easier for Brian Flores and I'll give you
just a general comparison, not a specific example, but back when
I practice law and if you didn't know Mi, I
I used to practice law,
never heard of when you would, when you would sue a company,
and I won't name names because some of them actually sponsor
various to the programming that we have available and I hope
they never figure out that I used to sue them, but I digress
at, but it's true. But
but what if you wouldn't gonna go that's tough.
Out. This is not Mitzi. But you just you just invited something
you didn't want to invite.
If you would accuse a company
of sexual harassment, there would typically be a manager
who is the one who engaged in the sexual harassment, that
puts the company in a tough spot
because if they find the guy did it and they fire him
makes the case stronger.
So they tend to Rally around
the person who is accused of wrongdoing until the case is
over, then they fire him. I mean that That's how it goes
frankly, but they have every incentive to back him up
because if they don't accept his version, if they do
impose discipline, if they do say we caught you red-handed
with your hand pressed at the bottom of the cookie jar. It
hurts them. So that's one of my concerns as it relates to
the Mike Mularkey situation and otherwise Mi bigger picture as
it relates to the Rooney Rule.
I can only think of one time, a team, got whacked and it was
when Matt Millen failed to comply. When everybody knew
that the lions were hiring,
Steve, Mariucci.
Sharm Lewis who was an assistant on the line staff at
the time, refused to sit for an interview because you knew what
was a sham and good for him.
But but ever since then
the NFL will bend itself into a linguistic pretzel
to excuse whatever violation. Apparently, may have happened.
Whether it's Washington, firing, Jim Zorn and already
knowing it was going to hire Mike, Shanahan in the excuse.
We eventually got after we pressed and pressed and pressed
back
in 2009, was Well, the interview Jerry gray before
they fired. Jim Zorn. Now, that loophole has since been plugged
and just a few years ago,
when Jon Gruden became, the head coach of the Raiders
unofficially
before Jack Del Rio was fired. Then we get this cockamamie
explanation that they
they interviewed TmarTn before Jon Gruden actually signed
the papers. So it was okay. So so they don't like to find
violations. They don't like to stand up and tell the world
just like with the injury report and
other things that teams do.
They don't want to tell the world. We got corruption
happening right under our noses. They'd rather brush that
under the rug. So I don't know that anything is going to come
of this.
I don't know. The NFL is going to do anything because job.
Number one is circle the wagons
deny deny deny. Oh wait. Job. Number one
is try to get the case resolved in the NFL's rigged Kangaroo
Court where Roger Goodell are one of his designee. She
handles the case.
That's not Justice, you know, Justice supposed to be the scales.
That's this that is that is Up
for the teams to win for the league to win.
It's shameful. It's wrong. And I hope one thing that comes out
of this moment for the NFL is enough. People stand up and say
that is a
bull crap, maneuver
that you guys have been doing for years
to rig the system
to hide from public View and scrutiny your wrongdoing.
Mean what, I said this today, why would they feel compelled
to have that rig system? If they didn't know they were
doing wrong.
Anyway, I don't get all cranked up again. I'm surprised
I didn't get fired after some of the things. As I said this
morning, but hey, you know, I always, I always recommended to
employers that I used to consult don't fire anybody
until late afternoon on a Friday. So I don't know. Maybe
the call is going to come during the show.
India will
be something, let me check my phone then up and yeah
certainly would be. I mean, I guess I just be on for the rest
of the hour that would be an interesting thing
not but well, you know,
I read that thing that you were just saying about Matt Millen
in Playmakers, which is available now. And you know, if
you haven't bought it yet. You should absolutely go to
amazon.com and or That, but that was my raptor in the book,
which is why I fired you on Trinity on today.
Yeah, I retract it.
I retract my firing of you
Antoinette. Yeah. I thought you might thought you might there.
Yeah, but then, you know the other interesting thing to me
about this whole Wilkes thing and you know adding walks it in
Horton to
it. We look at the Cardinals in the Cardinals, having
the situation that they did,
where Steve Wilkes was fired after one year
where I mean the
Cardinals look completely overmatched basically the at
that entire season and I thought it's interesting that
he pointed out in the amendment of the lawsuit. Like hey,
I want to Josh out. I don't want Josh Rosen and like that's
may be easy to say now.
You know, when we are here in 2022
and Josh, Allen's up here in Josh. Rosen is I think still on
the Falcons or something. I don't know, but then he's
never. Yeah, exactly. So he's never gotten to the point where
I think a lot of us thought he might,
I'm coming out and coming into that draft, but, you know, you
have Steve Wilkes,
who was basically kind of being a first-time head coach with
a hand tied behind his back because Steve Keim got popped
with an extreme DUI plead guilty to
it was imposed with a teen suspension and a team fine
in that summer. But now, it seems, was he actually suspend
was. He actually,
you know, not communicating with the team
or at least at the highest levels of the team because
It appears that wokes was at least hampered by him, not
communicating with the GM. With the ownership
may not have been least. That's the accusation that's presented
in a lawsuit now. So I mean I saw the Cardinals week 2 of
that season it because they play the Los Angeles, Rams out
here in the Coliseum and my God, they were completely
overmatched Bradford. Couldn't move.
I lost that game, thirty four to nothing to the ram. So
I don't know how much that that affected things, but when
you're looking at it and kaymak, if he didn't actually
get punished. That's another separate issue that may not be
taken care of until this whole lawsuit is over,
but it's something that at least should be further investigated.
I think that it,
well, it will be within the confines of the litigation, put
again, arbitration leaves. What I'm saying, limited access,
right? Right, the I don't know that the league is going to do
anything about it and the League's comment on any of
this. So far
has been no comment, which is a far cry from play them cases
without Merit. Right well and look especially with
Attorneys General.
Now vowing to investigate and prosecute, the NFL needs to
realize anything. It says can and will be used against it. So
it is better to say nothing. It is better to keep your head low
and your mouth shut. So you don't say something that's
going to cause
a problem for you later. And it definitely caused a PR problem
for the NFL to have a knee-jerk reaction on February 1 right.
After Brian, floor has filed his lawsuit to say the claims
are without Merit, how the hell
do you know there without Merit? I mean, that was one of
the low points from the NFL's perspective in recent. Years to
have the audacity to just set up. Its without Merit up, its
without Merit and then
we find out as the days go by. Well, there may be some
potential Merit to these clients. The Steve Brooks thing
later, what? Two weeks later that Goodell
at the press conference at. So fi stadium
is basically saying like,
yeah, there are things that we need to look into and we need
to do better which basically reverses the entire thing of
saying. Oh, yeah, the claims are without Merit. How can they
be without Merit if we need to? If we know we need to do
Those two statements are in Congress.
So it'll be interesting to see whether or not they actually do
investigate whether the Steve calm suspension was real or
whether he was involved and who he was talking to, who he was
communicating with who authorized it, who required, it
Steve, Wilkes knows
and maybe other employees of the organization at the time,
know, as well. That's part of what would be fully and fairly
developed at the case, would stay in federal court. And
the lawyer representing Steve Wilkes, Brian Flores and Ray
Horton. I would have the opportunity
to take depositions
to get to the bottom of things to get text messages
emails, phone logs, Etc. To determine whether or not Steve
calm, was indeed. Honoring the terms
of his suspension with or without the knowledge of the team. And
I would assume that anything was happening
probably was happening with the knowledge of owner, Michael
Bidwell, but that's kind of chaos. It can be created
separate from the strict legal, theories that are brought up in
a case. That's why you want to avoid litigation all together.
Create all sorts of other issues for an organization, as
things come to life, that otherwise would have been kept
out of you. So,
the Cardinals have a problem.
The Titans have a problem.
The Dolphins have a problem.
The Broncos in the Giants, kind of get lost and forgotten in
all of this. And they probably have the strongest defenses of
any of the teams that have been accused of anything. But again,
we'll see how it all plays out
in litigation. This is going to be a long and complicated
process. There will be development from time to time.
People will reach out to me and say, hey, what's going on with
the case? Why aren't you?
Talking about it. We'll talk about it when there are
developments. We're not going to talk about it when there's
nothing to talk about. When there's something to talk
about. We will give it
its fair and do treatment because
these are things that need
to be brought to light. The only way to get the NFL to change
is to talk about these things to make fans aware of these
things. And to help people
it's hard because people compartmentalize
The bright shiny objects, and these things that happen that
shouldn't happen,
but I still think
fans, and I'm not saying anybody should stop watching
football should not enjoy football. It's possible to love
the game. Enjoy the game, and expect more out of the people
in charge of the game. I think there's a way
to reconcile the two.
I agree with you.
Yeah, I don't think that this means that, oh my gosh, you
know, the NFL so horrible, we have to turn off our
televisions, right? I don't think either of us are saying
that, but I do think,
I think the,
especially, when you look at the Cardinal situation, right?
And you have Steve Wilkes getting fired after one season,
and it was not a good season, right? I mean, I'm not sitting
here and I'm not going to
say that, like, oh my gosh, why didn't they give Steve books
that I understand why an organization would make that
decision? However, Steve Wilkes was not the only person in
charge of getting that team. Okay, right. Like, getting that
team on a proper path
and I think when
you You look at what Wilkes is saying the element of privilege
is there, right?
There was a privilege that was extended to Steve time
when he was able to engage in what they term in the lawsuit,
fireable Behavior,
but was able to come back, have a complete do-over on the coach
and the quarterback, the next year
and has now been extended pretty far into the future with
his tenure, for the Arizona Cardinals. Right? So there's
a privilege there, that
Extended to Steve time and patience there that was
extended to Steve kind that was not exhibited to Steve Wilkes.
You could say the same thing about Kliff Kingsbury, even
though there's teams keep falling apart at the end of
the season. So I think
that's another one of these things where it
it's helpful at least in my mind
to point this out. Right? Like there are differences
in the levels of privilege extended to different people in
the NFL and some of that might be structural racism.
And that's how you prove cases like this. No one's ever. Going
to get on the witness stand and say,
you got me. Yep. You got me. Great job asking those
questions. You've backed me into a corner and I admit it,
you proved it by showing differences in treatment.
You've got a general manager
who had the extreme DUI that arguably was fireable in and of
itself
.19 on Fourth of July in 2018.
Possibly, the notion that he was involved when he shouldn't
have been involved and the team bends over backwards. Court for
him and only gives Steve Wilkes one year
a year that was set up to fail from the get-go.
So he could be the bridge coach. See, I think the bigger
picture argument would be
that if a team knows, it's in, kind of a weird transition
period And it knows it's not going to be good for a couple
of years.
It doesn't matter who the coach is. So,
hey, we can say, we have a diverse coaching staff. We
hired a black coach, Now's the Time to do it and then you fire
him. And
when you're ready to move on and actually put a team
together that wins, that's what happened to David Scully.
That's possibly. What would have happened to Brian Flores,
because
Stephen Ross was hell-bent on getting Sean, Payton
earlier, this year, in the Flores lawsuit,
but the kibosh on that.
But, but if Flores had gone along with Stephen Ross in
2019, and had gone
one in 15 and they get jobber. Oh, maybe he buys him out
clears, the decks and hires a different coach after. Season,
I mean that that's one of the arguments that's being made
here.
That when it's time for a short-term coach,
that seems to be the occasion for a team to hire a black
coach and let him fail and then get rid of him and hire
somebody else. And that, that's
one of those things that just,
you know, no one's ever going to admit it. But when it
happens over and over again, the circumstances tend to prove
it, it can't be an accident if it's happening over and over
again.