(soft music)
- The only reason we seem like so much,
and we seem so mysterious to most
is because of what people are trained to perceive as normal.
And I think that you are like,
the most normal person I've ever met
and no one would ever, ever say that about you, you know?
(laughing)
- That's fair.
- It's because I see myself in you.
- What have you learned from me that changed you?
- Well, you know, the gender thing. They, them.
I've been trying my, really, my darnedest.
Um.
You know, I mean, you were born my girl, you know,
you were born my daughter. So for the last 26,
well, 23, 24 years or whatever,
you know, you were my daughter,
you are my daughter, but I've got to just change my,
the way I think about it.
And looking back, I completely understand.
And I wish I knew back then.
Yeah. I wish I knew back then.
- I feel like everything makes sense.
- And everything just kinda came into,
just kind of just all the blanks filled in for me.
- Yeah.
- And I just wished back then I knew, you know,
- 'Cause so many tweaks could have been made.
- Tons of tweaks could have been made.
- Yeah.
- I need validation as a man.
I think I can't speak for any other man,
but I think for me as a transgender man,
I need more validation from you.
And I think, I feel I never get that.
- Never?
(laughing)
- Well
- Come on.
- Well, I guess it's not right here. I guess if we talk.
So when was the last time that you validated? Tell me.
- I think every day, every second, that we're together.
- What? I view you as a female. No, I don't.
- Okay. But then maybe it's my own thing,
but sometimes if we put a...
It was a week or so ago you threw in a woman pronoun.
When you want to get to me when we're fighting
That's like the knife. What was it?
It was something. It was something about a girl.
- A hen party?
- Yes, the hen party. Thank you very much.
I don't go to hen parties. I'm a guy.
- There's things about being trans that are like really hard
that I wish I didn't have to go through.
Like, I wish people wouldn't ask me,
have you had surgery, this. Have you this?
And like,
is your boyfriend gay?
Or like, what kind of guys do you like?
Who likes you? And like, what do you have?
And like, are your boobs real?
And like, is your hair real?
And like, I feel like my womanhood is always questioned.
And I feel like if I wasn't trans
that I would, that none of that would happen.
But also I am happy that I'm trans
because like everything that is me is me.
- I don't feel reflected in some of my other relationships,
meaning the trans part, you know, like, yeah.
We're reflecting each other's lives sometimes
in a way I don't see with like my cis male partners,
But I, yeah. Yeah.
Like I feel the femininity portion a lot with you.
And I also feel the,
what's the opposite of reflection?
Like I feel like a boy around you.
Not because I think you're a boy,
but because I feel like your boy, you know.
- Mm hm.
(laughing)
I like that.
- That feels good.
- Yeah.
- There can be a relatability
I mean, as a person who, you know,
my birth certificate has an F on it,
and I've always felt like that F stood for failure.
Ya know, because I just failed to pass
or fail to be good enough to be an acceptable woman.
And when I wear a dress down the street, I get these looks.
And when I see a job opening for, ya know,
a female bartender or whatever.
I know that whenever it says female,
they're not talking about me, no matter how I try.
And I feel really alone in my identity a lot of times.
- Yeah.
- And you're a person
who really strongly identifies as a, he.
And you do have a lot of queerness around you.
- But don't even say that, 'cause that's not true.
- That's something I don't know about you.
- No, I've said it.
I don't have a preferred gender pronoun, whatsoever.
- Really?
- So, my preference is not he.
- I didn't know. I'm so sorry.
Like I, I've always kind of assumed
that you're very in your male identity,
'cause you're very...
- What about me and how I even dress sometimes
gives you that impression?
- Well you're dressing
can definitely be a lot more
across societal norms or spectrums,
but I guess that like inherent knowledge of like,
what is our body to ourselves?
And I've never had a conversation with you.
I don't think ever like, being like,
this is how I deeply truly feel in my heart.
And you know, you said, I feel deeply ashamed.
- I didn't feel male because male for me
was something to constantly live up to.
I was raised with three straight cis brothers
who were brought up, you know,
put into sports and I was too.
And we were constantly like measured by how manly we were.
And it wasn't like anything intentional
that our parents were doing. It was just kind of like,
that's what the world does, ya know?
So I'm definitely, I would consider myself genderqueer
but I also pass by societal standards
in a way that I know you don't.
Like, I've seen it with you in real time
where I'm like waiting outside of a bathroom for you
because I'm afraid somebody is going to say something
'cause I'm watching their eyes.
And I see them looking at you
when you go into the women's room.
- When you're like trans or when you're queer,
I feel like a lot of times people want you to like,
be so firm about everything you believe. Right?
So it's like cut and dry. Like I want to have this surgery,
I want to do this. This is what I want to look like.
Like even one of my doctors, at some point, was like
"So what do you want?"
You know, how do you see yourself?
Like girl, I don't fucking know.
You know what I mean?
- Yeah.
- I know how I feel. I know what I've cried about.
I know like how I felt for a lot of my life.
And like, that's not fake,
but I guess just in like the political climate,
there's a lot of like harsh lines being drawn
between what is what? And like, it's not so much that,
but I guess I think about my safety, right?
- Yeah.
- Like walking through the world as a perceived woman,
I know that I'm safe saying, oh don't worry,
I'll take you to the park.
- Yeah.
- Me with a beard and titties, I'd be afraid.
For real.
Yeah. Especially like, not for anything,
but really, it means a lot to me. And like...
- Aww.
Oh.
(sniffling)
Aw yeah.
- I'm thinking back to when we were in The Met.
- The Met?
- The Met, yeah. And that woman was like,
trying to say something to you in the bathroom.
And I like, couldn't even get myself to pee,
'cause I was just like so upset.
I was like, I can't believe this fucking lady
like thinks she can go out,
like, she's gonna go out of her way to say this.
When in what way, shape, or form is this affecting her?
- Seeing moments like those is those moments,
I know you're just so inherently good.
The way you stuck up for me in the bathroom
when I didn't even know what was going on,
because I couldn't even hear her,
but I heard you open your stall
and start talking to someone and I was like, "What?"
And then you told me after it.
And seeing that anger on your face
or which I rarely see it because you don't get angry.
It just struck me that this was very new to you.
I knew, but I didn't see it, but I saw it then.
I think it's because you realize
it's not only politics, but it's morals.
- Yeah.
And yeah.
- I hate like talking about things in this way, but like,
I want to protect you like a boyfriend.
- That's awesome.
- Yeah.
- I think that's cool. I'm kind of a sucker for like,
sort of, weirdly internalized
like patriarchy things.
But like only in the sense that like,
they make me feel more like a girl.
Like sometimes I just want that.
- You want?
- Sometimes, I just like want to be objectified
the same way as this woman would.
And that's like really fucked up.
- I thought it was interesting
when you showed me that photo the other day,
the one where you're wearing the red sweater
and you were like the sister.
- The striped one?
- Yeah. And you looked like really fem.
And you were like, "Do you miss this person?"
Like, this is person you fell in love with.
And I was like, no, I mean, yes, it was.
But like,
not physically.
Because like you,
and your mind and like how you are as a person,
has been the same. And that's what I fell in love with.
- I think my past comes up more than yours because
I, ya know, I didn't have.
you have a strong sense of you from what? A very young age.
I didn't have that, 'til 48 now. I didn't' have that,
or think about having that 'til I was 39.
I have to kill that old person, so to speak and to be me.
So really I'm technically eight years old.
So you're really, maybe you shouldn't be with me
'til I'm technically 16.
- Well, that'll happen once you start the testosterone.
- Oh.
- Right? You'll be in puberty.
(laughing)
- But yeah. I just, I love you, you know that.
- I love you too.
- Mm hm. I know that. Yup.
- Yeah. We're going to have beautiful babies in the future.
Done.
- Yeah. So is the pact still intact?
- Yeah. Sperm donor or marriage.
- Marriage. If we don't get married by, you know?
(laughing)
Yeah. But no, when, when we, if we do that,
it's going to be such like a beautiful, queer wedding
that I'm going to be such like
an insane planner for. I can't wait.
- Hmm.
- Cool.