MY NEXT GUEST IS A LEADER IN THE "BLACK LIVES MATTER" MOVEMENT.
PLEASE WELCOME DERAY MCKESSON!
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) ♪
>> Stephen: WELL, THANKS FOR COMING BACK.
>> GOOD TO BE BACK.
>> Stephen: LAST TIME WE TALKED WAS IN THE FALL.
>> YES.
>> Stephen: YOU WERE HERE.
THERE WAS ALREADY A LOT OF ATTENTION BEING PAID TO "BLACK
LIVES MATTER" AND ABOUT THE RACIAL TENSION IN THE UNITED
STATES, BUT THE LAST FEW WEEKS HAVE BEEN TERRIBLE FOR RACE
RELATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES.
>> THAT'S TRUE.
>> Stephen: YOU YOURSELF WERE ACTUALLY ARRESTED IN BATON ROUGE
DURING A PROTEST.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW?
DO YOU THINK ANYTHING POSITIVE CAN COME FROM SUCH A TERRIBLE
SITUATION?
>> YES, WHEN I THINK ABOUT PROTEST, I THINK IT OF THE IDEA
OF TELLING THE TRUTH IN PUBLIC.
WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING WITH OUR BODIES IS TELLING TRUTH THAT
PHILANDO CASTILE, ALTON STERLING, SO MANY PEOPLE SHOULD
BE ALIVE.
I HOPE THESE ARE LEADING TO BETTER CONVERSATIONS ABOUT
SOLUTIONS.
WE THINK ABOUT THE PROTEST IN BATON ROUGE.
I DIDN'T PLAN TO GET ARRESTED BUT SO MANY PEOPLE GOT ARRESTED
THAT BROUGHT ATTENTION TO THE CRISIS WITH THE BATON ROUGE
POLICE DEPARTMENT.
>> Stephen: YOU DIDN'T PLAN TO GET ARRESTED BUT IT LOOKS ART
DIRECTED.
IT WAS EVEN WELL LIT.
>> I HAD A MOMENT WHERE I WAS, LIKE, IF I RESIST ARREST, IT
WILL BE A REAL PROBLEM.
SO I JUST HAD TO FIND THIS MOMENT OF PEACE AND SAY, I'M
OKAY WITH IT AND I'M JUST GOING TO GO.
BUT AGAIN, I THINK ALL OF THIS IS ABOUT FORCING A CONVERSATION
IN PUBLIC AND RACE AND RACISM THAT PEOPLE HAVE JUST BEEN
AFRAID TO HAVE AND I'M HOPEFUL WE CAN CREATE SPACE TO TALK
ABOUT SOLUTIONS.
I'M THINKING ABOUT THAT WITH THE MEETING WITH OBAMA WE HAD.
>> Stephen: THE PRESIDENT HAD A MEETING AT THE WHITE HOUSE
WITH VARIOUS COMMUNITY LEADERS AND LEADERS FROM BOTH LAW
ENFORCEMENT AND FROM CIVIL RIGHTS AND CIVIL JUSTICE
ORGANIZATIONS LIKE YOURSELF.
>> YEP.
>> Stephen: WHAT WAS THAT PLEADING LIKE AND WHAT DID YOU
TALK ABOUT?
>> WE MET WITH THE PRESIDENT FOR ABOUT FOUR AND A HALF HOURS, AND
TALKED ABOUT SOLUTIONS.
SO PRESIDENT OBAMA PUSHED PEOPLE NOT TO JUST TALK ABOUT WHAT THE
PROBLEMS WERE IN THE SLICE OF THE WORLD THEY REPRESENTED BUT
TO REALLY THINK ABOUT SOLUTIONS.
SO WE TALKED ABOUT THINGS LIKE USING FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MONEY
AS A WAY TO INCENTIVIZE OR HOLD POLICE DEPARTMENTs ACCOUNTABLE
DIFFERENTLY.
WE TALKED ABOUT POLICING CONTRACTS AND THE FACT IN THIS
COUNTRY THERE IS A SHADOW JUSTICE SYSTEM FOR POLICE AND
POLICE HAVE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR WORK.
BUT WE GOT TO HEAR ABOUT POLICE ABOUT HOW THEIR WORK IS HARDER
IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
I'VE NOT BEEN IN THE SAME ROOM WITH MANY POLICE CHIEFS IN THE
COUNTRY, AND WHILE WE DO NOT AGREE WITH SOLUTIONS, IT'S
INTERESTING TO HEAR THEM.
JUST BEING IN THE ROOM IN AND OF ITSELF DOESN'T CHANGE THINGS.
LORETTA LYNCH WAS THERE.
>> Stephen: THE PRESIDENT IN HIS SPEECH AT THE MEMORIAL
SERVICE, HE SAID THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO WALK IN EACH
OTHER'S SHOES, OKAY.
I UNDERSTAND THAT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE POSITION OF
"BLACK LIVES MATTER" FULLY BECAUSE I'M NOT A BLACK MAN AND
I HAVEN'T BEEN PULLED OVER REPEATEDLY BY THE POLICE.
BUT CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THE POSITION
OF WHAT POLICEMEN YOUR AGE MIGHT BE GOING THROUGH IF THEY COME TO
WHAT THEY PERCEIVE IS POSSIBLY A DANGEROUS SITUATION AND DON'T
KNOW WHAT TO DO.
HAS IT OPENED YOUR EYES AT ALL TO WHAT THEIR FEARS AND WHAT
THEIR MOTIVATIONS MIGHT BE THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY RACIST?
>> YES, SO WE CAN ACCEPT THAT POLICING IS HARD, WE CAN ACCEPT
THAT PEOPLE WANT THE WAKE UP EVERY DAY AND GO HOME ALIVE, WE
ACCEPT THOSE THINGS.
BUT WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE MEDICAL PROFESSION, RIGHT?
I'VE NOT BEEN A DOCTOR BUT I HAVE EXPECTATIONS ABOUT HOW THEY
FUNCTION.
I HAVE EXPECTATIONS THAT POLICE DON'T KILL PEOPLE AS PART OF
THEIR JOB.
WE BELIEVE THAT.
(APPLAUSE) >> Stephen: WHEN SOMEONE SAYS
TO YOU THE VAST MAJORITY OF POLICE DON'T DO THAT, WHAT IS
YOUR REACTION?
>> THIS IS ABOUT A CULTURE THAT'S BROKEN AND WE KNOW THAT
THE CULTURE OF POLICING HAS TO CHANGE SO THAT THE COMMUNITIES
ARE SAFE AGAIN.
AND WE THINK OF THE DEATH OF PHILANDO AND ALTON, AND SO MANY
OTHERS, AND THAT SPEAKS TO A CULTURE THAT'S BROKEN.
YEAH, THERE ARE A LOT OF POLICE OFFICERS WHO HAVE NOT KILLED
PEOPLE.
THERE ARE ALSO A LOT OF POLICE OFFICERS WHO CONTINUE TO
PARTICIPATE IN A SYSTEM WHERE THE CULTURE IS BROKEN AND WE
NEED THEM TO STEP UP AND SAY THEY KNOW THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO
CHANGE.
IN THE BEGINNING OF THE SPEECH WITH OBAMA, WE NOTED THE POLICE
NEEDS CHANGE AND THAT WAS PRODUCTIVE.
>> Stephen: PEOPLE WERE STILL IN THE STREETS, YOU CAN'T SAY
IT'S OVER TILL EVERYBODY'S GONE HOME.
I'M SAYING THIS PERSON PARTICULARLY TARGETED POLICE,
SPECIFICALLY WHITE POLICE IN DALLAS, THAT'S WHAT HE SAID TO
THE NEGOTIATORS ON THE PHONE WITH HIM.
THE "BLACK LIVES MATTER" MOVEMENT IS A DECENTRALIZED
MOVEMENT.
WHILE YOU ARE A LEADER OF THE MOVEMENT, THERE IS NOT A
SINGULAR ORGANIZATION.
>> CORRECT.
>> Stephen: DO YOU BEAR ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR HAVING A
CENTRAL ORGANIZATION THAT CAN HAVE A COHESIVE MESSAGE SO
PEOPLE CANNOT MISINTERPRET WHAT YOU'RE DOING AS A CALL FOR
VIOLENCE OR REPRISALS AGAINST THE POLICE?
BECAUSE WHILE THIS PLAY BE A DERANGED INDIVIDUAL, THERE HAVE
BEEN -- WE'VE HEARD RECORDINGS OF PEOPLE CHANTING FOR VIOLENCE
AGAINST THE POLICE IN MARCHES.
WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A LEADER OF THIS MOVEMENT TO KEEP
THAT FROM HAPPENING?
>> FIRST, THERE ARE INCREDIBLE LEADERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE STEPPING UP AND FOR THE FIRST
TIME, FOR SOME PEOPLE HAVING THEIR VOICES HEARD AND LEARNING
HOW TO ORGANIZATION IS POWERFUL, SO THE DECENTRALIZED NATURE IS A
STRENGTH, NOT A WEAKNESS OF THE MOVEMENT.
THE SECOND THING ABOUT DALLAS, IS MOVEMENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN
ROOTED IN A CALL TO END VIOLENCE.
THAT WAS TRUE TEN DAYS AGO, FIVE DAYS AGO, TODAY AND TOMORROW.
WHEN WE THINK ABOUT DALLAS, IT IS A TRAGEDY, AND MY CONDOLENCES
GO OUT TO THE VICTIMS OF ALL VIOLENCE, BUT THAT WAS NOT
RELATED TO THE MOVEMENT.
SO I THINK THE DECENTRALIZED NATURE AGAIN IS A STRENGTH OF
THE MOVEMENT AND THERE ARE SO MANY INCREDIBLE PEOPLE LEADING
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO GO.
ONE LAST THING, THE PRESIDENT SAID YOU ARE TOO HARD ON THE
POLICE IN YOUR RHETORIC.
DUNES WHAT HE MEANT BY THAT?
>> NO, I THINK HIS GENERAL PUSH IS WE SHOULD ALL TRY SEE EACH
OTHER'S PE PERSPECTIVES.
OUR FUNDAMENTAL BELIEF IS POLICE SHOULDN'T KILL PEOPLE.
WE'LL SAY IT TILL IT CHANGES.