[Host] She was part of the Liberal wave in 2015.
Celina Caesar-Chavannes claimed victory as MP for Whitby.
New to politics, full of optimism.
We're being open and transparent with Canadians...
[Host] But that optimism waned over the next four years.
Feeling marginalized, pigeonholed
multiple clashes with the PM
some of them awkwardly public
ended with her resignation.
I'm going, so yeah.
I'm good.
I have just been notified by my office
that Celina Caesar-Chavannes has decided to sit as an independent.
[Host] Canadians know her as someone who doesn't mince words.
I think I'm going to call it out when I see it.
[Host] But her new memoir, Can You Hear Me Now
tells a different story.
One about often falling short when it comes to speaking up.
Celina Caesar-Chavannes, Andrew here very nice to link up with you.
Hi, Andrew, it's such a pleasure to be on with you this evening.
I'm curious to know what is it that you wish
the prime minister, in your mind, had understood about you
a little bit better
when you formally took your place in government?
I wanted him to know that you know I was smart
I was strategic
and I was able to help with policy
and I didn't want to be a token in his government
I really was fascinated with the fact that he was talking about add women, change politics
a feminist approach
and that diversity was our strength
an intersectional approach
and that really fascinated me
and I wanted -- I really wanted to bring that to bear in politics.
But you're saying you felt silenced.
That you felt tokenized.
I mean the PMO would and has framed it very differently, right.
Like the prime minister doesn't see it that way.
Well it's not that I felt tokenized, Andrew
there's evidence of that.
In my role with the prime minister
the three international events that I attended were
the state visit to Washington
in which I only met Obama
I had no other meetings or anything else to do during that whole time.
The opening of the national African-American museum in Washington.
Again no other meetings
and the inauguration of president Akufa-Addo in Ghana.
All three of those international events had a very specific focus
and it was related to my Blackness.
It was embarrassing to know that I was not actually hired because I was strategic
or because I had business acumen or research background
it was for my Blackness.
And that I didn't appreciate.
So the frustration that you would have been feeling at this time
ultimately culminates in a pretty explosive exchange
over the phone
between you and the prime minister
where you say what?
Well, the conversation was a courtesy call
to tell him that I was no longer going to be running in the 2019 election
and what I had thought naively was that I was going going to get the prime minister saying
you know Celina I value your contribution
I hope that you run again
I didn't get any of that.
What I got was
you know Celina I can't have you make this announcement today
because Jody Wilson-Raybould resigned today
and I can't have two powerful women of colour leave.
He went on to talk about his privilege
and how people keep talking about his privilege
he went on to say that I should appreciate him
I should appreciate what he's done for me
in the time that I've been in government
as if I didn't work hard
and at the end of it you know
at the end of his rant, I said you know
"mother fucker, who the fuck do you think you're talking to?"
you know if he had spoken to any member of my constituency
any 130,000 member of Whitby that way
I would have had said the exact same thing
and I'd likely do it again.
Okay -- oh okay
but I mean that's a hell of a thing to say to the prime minister of the country, right?
Well, it's not just a hell of a thing to say the prime minister
when the prime minister is speaking to me like a child
like someone that he happens to own
within his government
what am I supposed to say?
Am I still supposed to be polite in that context?
I don't think so.
Well let me ask you this
and this is actually something that you acknowledge
almost first and foremost in the book
that in the aftermath of that phone call
where ultimately you decide that you need to leave the party
and sit as an independent
virtually the very next day you were getting calls from Black community leaders
who were disappointed in a way
that you had a seat at the table
and you got up and left.
I mean what was your answer to that?
Well, sometimes the -- as I said in the book as well
sometimes the bravest thing that you can do
the best thing that you can do is to leave
especially when you know that what is happening at the table
doesn't serve you
and I knew that what was happening with myself and the prime minister
did no longer served me
it no longer served the constituents of Whitby.
You know I'm curious also though to know
when you look at what's happened since your departure
I mean the world's a busy place right
and even if we just look at the pandemic
I mean, it disproportionately affects Black people.
Black women, Black students, Black businesses
do you look at what's happened since
and I don't know like think to yourself
gosh, I wish I was there
or there was some way for me to be there
so that I could have the influence today
or that I could offer my perspective today?
I think this is less about me being at that table
and more about the fact that the government of today
is doing a lot of performing
a lot of saying that they're going to do things
a lot of writing things down
that you know we need to dismantle systemic racism
but not actually doing the job.
Yeah and you know consistently though
you have advocated for other Black women
and Black men for that matter
to get involved, right.
To engage in that political process
and even to run themselves
I still wonder what will they take away do you think or do you hope
from your experience in parliament
I'm very candid about my story
because I don't want people to be surprised
because I want them to know that these tensions exist
that the racism that experienced
that sexism exists there
that discriminatory practices still exist.
Now, is it an indictment on the whole institution?
No, it's an opportunity to do better
Celina Caesar-Chavannes, we'll leave it there.
Thank you so much for your time.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much, Andrew.
I appreciate it.
Thank you to your viewers.