Film Courage: How did you know you were rushing through your first film, was it feedback was
it an epiphany you had?
Zeke Zelker, Writer/Director/Producer of the transmedia project BILLBOARD: Just me watching
my own material. I think that filmmakers need to be honest with themselves. And not everything
you make is going to be great but everything you make should be a testing ground for your
next project.
We are filmmakers, it’s a craft. You have to remember we are craftsmen. We are crafts
ladies you know. And so it’s a matter of with film you bring all of those craftspeople
together to create one piece of work. It’s one of those things that people don’t think
about enough and you also hear these talks to students and they say “Listen you’ll
learn more by doing then you will in school.” Because you have to do it. You have to fail.
You have to figure out what works and doesn’t work.
But I learned that I was rushing through things by watching stuff myself after the fact. I
was a bit naive, a bit arrogant in think that what I would make would make money and thankfully
it all has.
It’s interesting I have a different business model (I keep saying that). All of my films
have been profitable except for one. It’s the only film that we sold. It was very strange
because I firmly believe in theatrical distribution. I believe in what I call a $10,000 screening
where you are actually netting $10,000 at a screening.
So I will rent the largest place possible, we’ll sell as many tickets as we can, we
tier the ticket prices - $10.00, $35.00, $125.00 (that’s one hundred twenty-five dollars).
For instance $10.00 just gets you in the film. $35.00 is the film and after party. The $125.00
is a pre-party, after party and then “swag bag” types of stuff. Then we hand out film
bills that we sell advertising in. And then we have merch and all of these types of things.
I literally net $10,000 per screening. And I generally do that in the early parts of
film release and I’ve been successful at it. So you string enough together and you
are in the black.
It’s just a model that I’ve created for myself. I’ve always had some other type
of IP [intellectual property] involved. Like for instance with AKA (the film I told you
about earlier), the film tanked, it didn’t do well. I made more money on a cocktail book
then I did associated with the project then I did with the project itself. But I still
equate that with the film itself as it’s all part of the same property. So I always
think about creating different revenue streams for every project.
For instance with BILLBOARD I created a radio station WTYT 960. We have the web series,
we have not the interactive play, we have the feature film and then with all that stuff
we can sell sponsorships because we are actually showing off brands within the content that
we’ve created. So that drives a whole other level of income.
Film Courage: How many sponsorships do you have for BILLBOARD?
Zeke: Four…six…seven…eight…there’s nine, nine sponsors and I’ll be very candid
they go anywhere from $9,000 up to $40,000.
Film Courage: I see…so $9,000 is your minimum entry point?
Zeke: Yes.
Film Courage: And do you know these…that’s fantastic. Did you have prior business relationships
with any of the sponsors or…
Zeke: No.
Film Courage: Or you just cold-called…
Zeke: Cold-called. But I also firmly believe that filmmakers need to build audience early
on. And so what we did first is we created the radio station WTYT 960 where now there
is well over a 1,000 bands on it. I think we are in 22 countries, 49 states. And so
I did that because I knew that we had an audience. And no sponsor is going to give you anything
you can prove that you’re going to have impression counts and they know that they
are going to have some sort of audience for their project.
So no only do we have those 1,000 bands but we have fans. And we did an average of them.
Each of the bands average $6,000 fans. So all of the sudden 1,000 bands and 6,000 fans
you are at what…6 million reach? Which is pretty astronomical for a small independent
film. So we were able to get those numbers because we could prove that we actually had
those impressions. And so we had audience and so that’s what’s fascinating about
all of that because it’s not easy to do but we were able to do it.
Film Courage: With the film screenings you said you netted $10,000?
Zeke: 10 grand.
Film Courage: What’s your split with the theater? How are you doing this?
Zeke: I rent them.
Film Courage: So you buy it out?
Zeke: So mind you it’s not every screening we do $10,000. Early on we found that we do
better when we have events around our projects rather just running for a week or something
like that.
So we are going to be reformulating that model a little bit and taking it on the road. But
what we do is we launch the film by that $10,000 screening because also too that frees up capital
and also builds buzz that we also have a very good box office. And that’s how it’s all
generated.
I’ve written about this a couple of times. Like I’ve written for something in Ted Hope’s
blog about the $10,000 screening and things. It’s very possible. Every filmmaker can
do it, they really can. The interesting thing is that because I create so far out of the
system in New York and Los Angeles that there is anomalies that happen because of that.
Like I don’t know if it can happen in LA quite honestly? Because there are so many
filmmakers, so many films here that I don’t know if it would work? Nor in New York but
it does work where I’m from.
Film Courage: Yes…I was just going to ask you…do you have such a leg up because it’s
a smaller area, they want to support local artists, they are excited, maybe they are
even in the film?
Zeke: Yes, absolutely…to a point but at the same time it has its plusses and minuses.
It’s harder for me to produce in my hometown because of that because I have to bring in
everybody.
There is colleges that have film programs and I end up teaching everybody and then once
I teach them they stick around for a couple of years and come to LA because I don’t
produce enough fast enough to be able to sustain my people over the course of a long period
of time.
So we end up bringing in people from New York and Philadelphia for crew and we also fly
in cast and crew from LA. So that’s a problem, it’s like when you are producing in places
that are more remote they do cost more. People don’t think about that, catering, per diem,
lodging, transportation.
And then people are like well you get tax incentives and yada yada yada. Well you only
get them if you qualify for them. So there are certain things you have to be aware of
and again it comes down to the business side of things.
Like for instance I produce all of the cashflow. Not a lot of filmmakers do that so I don’t
qualify for a lot of tax incentives because I don’t have the $800,000 in the bank after
July 1st, after they passed their budget. I basically make money and spend money, that’s
my business model. And so I don’t qualify.
Like for instance producing outside of New York and LA and Atlanta. Filmmakers just need
to know what their state tax incentive is before they even start to think about budgeting.
It’s also where are they getting their capital from?
There are also different tricks to be able to obtain capital. I’m horrible at crowdfunding.
I have a hard time asking people for money. I think that’s one reason why I have very
few equity partners. I generally spend my own money (my wife and my money quite frankly).
Like we are like 82% of the resources that it took to make BILLBOARD.
But I believe in being all in. I believe I need to have skin in the game. So I’m horrible
for asking them for money…horrible. I need another producer to ask for money. I can make
the money trust me. I can make the money. I just have a horrible time asking people
for money.
Film Courage: When then you may feel a freedom too that this is literally mine (our) project.
If it’s 80 percent your money there is less need to get approval from other people for
things.
Zeke: You’re absolutely right. But at the same time there is a lot more risk. There’s
a lot more sleepless nights. I’m worried about making payroll.
Literally the people who watch the film, the people who work with me have said it has become
autobiographical.
It’s interesting because we’ve been screening the film which much success thank goodness.
And some people have pushed back because they don’t like the ending and things. And I’m
like “I understand that.” And they will start arguing with me in the Q&A which doesn’t
make any sense to me but like I will literally ask them a simple question
“Have you ever owned a business?”
“Well…um.”
“No! Have you ever owned a business? Have you ever had to make payroll?”
“Well my father did.”
“Well did you?”
“Well my father lost his business.”
I’m like “Exactly, exactly.”
And so the thing is people can’t really walk the walk until they’ve talked the talk.
Wait did I turn that around? No…talk the talk unless they’ve walked the walk. And
so my wife and I we literally put everything on the line. It’s scary as hell. It’s
risky as hell. But I’ve made money in the past so I keep doing it. Thank goodness we
have been successful.
Also too people can’t look at filmmaking as a lottery. I have so many friends and peers
that see getting into Sundance as a lottery ticket like they are going to have this huge
and career and everything else and that sort of thing.
I love Sundance. I’ve had films in Sundance. That’s not what I’m saying at all. But
people have to look at the long tail of their careers. That everything is a building block
and you don’t want to be a flash in the pan because there are only a few of them.
You can probably name them on your two hands right? How many films have been produced over
the past 10 years that have gone nowhere. People have to think about it from the a business
perspective and realizing how they can make money at it early on and it’s just a matter
of looking at it like “Oh my gosh I’m going to make this movie. I’m going to be
rich.” But looking at it as “I’m making the movie. This is part of my business.”
If you make widgets, you might make widgets over the course of your factory’s career.
If you’re a filmmaker you are going to make different films over the course of your career.
It’s not all dependent on one film. So just think about it that way. And I’m saying
that I’ve been hugely successful but I’ve made money and I do this full time. But it’s
a grind. I work my butt off still to this day and I lead by example. I'm the first one
in my studio by 7:00 a.m. and I'm the last one to leave at 6:30 - 7:00 p.m. I've been
doing that for 10 years working on the same project.
It's a matter of vision, it's a matter of just really working and yes it's 6 and a half
days a week.