Judy: Next week marks the 50th
anniversary of the break-in at
democratic national party
headquarters here in Washington.
That event in 1972 would
eventually trigger congressional
hearings and bring down a U.S.
President.
The 2 reporters at the heart of
uncovering what came to be known
as the watergate scandal have
re-issued their book "All the
president's men" this week, with
a new foreword drawing parallels
to the actions of former
president trump.
On the eve of the first public
hearings on January 6th, Bob
Woodward and Carl Bernstein join
us now.
We welcome both of you back to
the newshour.
Bob, I want to start with you.
Over the years, there have been
many narratives about what
watergate was about.
It has been called a third-rate
burglary, that the cover-up was
worse than the crime.
You have had plenty of time to
reflect on it.
What was it about?
>> It was really an effort to
destroy the process of
nominating candidates for the
democratic party.
It was extraordinary.
Nixon said, I would like to run
against this person, George
Mcgovern, and he launched a
covert campaign of espionage and
sabotage and cover-up.
And it worked.
In the end, he got a weaker
candidate, govern -- George
Mcgovern, and he won 49 states.
It was one of the great crimes
of not just politics, but never
seen anything like this until
recently.
Judy: And that is what I want to
ask about.
As we think back to president
Nixon, Carl, one of the enduring
memories was from the senate
hearings.
The late senator Sam Ervin.
One of the hearings, the famous
moment where we heard the actual
audio recording from inside the
white house, would Richard Nixon
have been brought down if that
hadn't happened?
>> It was the so-called smoking
gun tape.
It is very possible he would not
have been brought down.
We don't know.
But it is important to
understand the progression from
Richard Nixon's criminality to
Donald Trump's criminality.
They are both criminal
presidents of the United States.
But trump went further.
He used -- he is the first
seditious president in our
history.
How did that happen?
He decided he would not abide by
the election, the duly
constituted free election of Joe
Biden, the president of the
United States, and set -- and
staged a coup to keep Biden from
taking office.
The law calls for the election
of the president of the united
States to take place at 1:00
P.M. On January 6.
There was a great effort, a
conspiracy extending to the
president, to keep that 1:00
P.M. Appointment from happening.
The object of all of this,
including the demonstrations and
breaking into the capitol by the
insurrectionists, was to keep
this selection of the president
from happening so trump could
stay in office and Biden
couldn't.
But the idea of the president
trying to stage a coup such as
this is extraordinary, insidious
and we have never seen anything
like it in our history.
Judy: And yet the two of you
write about the parallels
between the two.
You write they were both
insecure, paranoid.
You say each viewed the world as
-- through a prism of hate.
>> There was so much hate in the
politics of Nixon and trump.
What struck us, when you look at
all of this, trump is staking
his claim now that the election
was stolen.
Well, he lost.
He did not win.
Carl and I and Bob Costa who I
worked with spent a lot of time
looking for evidence to suggest,
or show, that this was, the 2020
election was fraudulent and
stolen.
There is zero evidence.
It just doesn't pass the common
sense test.
But I agree, it was really
sedition.
A seditious action by trump
trying to overturn it.
And he failed.
Maybe he will now run again.
Judy: That word stops us cold.
You used it a minute ago, you
said seditious.
Bob said sedition.
That is the son -- that is
something the two of you didn't
accuse Nixon of.
This is a different level.
>> It certainly is.
Richard Nixon resigned.
He got on the helicopter and
went into private life.
Donald Trump was trying to
attempt to not leave the white
house, to continue.
Illegally, as the president of
the United States.
I think there is another
important thing to look at and
consider.
What made Nixon go?
Courageous Republicans.
Judy: When it comes to
Republicans being willing to
stand up to a president, there
were a number who stood up to
president Nixon.
It is different today.
>> In the end, all of the
Republicans stood up against
Nixon and goal what -- Goldwater
carried the message.
What will happen tomorrow night
in these primetime hearings is I
think a seminal moment political
moment, a teaching moment for
the country, and even people who
support trump really ought to
look at it, because they have,
they are making a case, and
people may accept it or not, but
they ought to listen.
They may not like it, but it is
critical that what I know about
what is going to happen tomorrow
night, a lot of it is going to
be visual.
A lot of it is going to be
seeing the anger and the
ugliness of breaking into the
capitol.
An unheard of action, not by 10
people or 100, but 1000 people.
Astonishing moment, and people
ought to be pondering it.
They should look at this data
and look at the violence.
I couldn't believe that, what
was happening that day.
It was so out of the normal
civility of American politics,
the nonviolent tradition.
Judy: We will see how many are
watching.
The country is much more divided
politically even then it was
back in the day of Richard
Nixon.
I think you have already
answered this question but I'm
going to ask the two of you,
which of these two presidents
posed a greater threat to our
democracy?
Carl Bernstein?
>> Trump, because he is willing
to push things to the point
where there can be no peaceful
transfer of power.
Such as happens in the most
authoritarian countries in the
world.
That goes farther than Richard
Nixon.
>> I think the answer is trump
because he is thinking of
running.
I actually think he is going to
run.
I think he is going to be
recruited by lots of moneyed
Republicans and he is going to
say, look, the people are
calling, I've got to run, and he
is running again.
In the four years he held
office, he learned in a somewhat
haphazard way, but he learned
where the levers of power are,
and if he gets that power, the
power of the presidency, the
extraordinary concentration of
power again, this country will
never be the same.
Judy: Bob Woodward and Carl
Bernstein, who broke the story
of watergate 50 years ago and
who are here to watch what we
are witnessing in 2022.
Thank you both.
>> Thanks, Judy.