- Welcome back to another segment
of "Behind the Scenes of The Waltons".
Today, I wrap up my conversation with Richard Thomas.
Speaking of casting, I don't know how much you knew
relative to "The Homecoming"
and then moving into the series,
and those choices to,
the only family members who changed were,
Edgar Bergen to Will Geer,
Patricia Neil to Michael,
and then Andrew Duggan to Ralph.
Did you know anything behind any of those choices, or ?
- I did know a little bit.
And what I knew was that after "The Homecoming" aired,
William Paley, who basically was the chairman,
he ran CBS, he was from the top, he was CBS.
He said, "We're gonna make that,"
you know
Fred Zinnemann used to claim a lot
of credit for turning that show into a series,
but it was William Paley
who actually made the decision and said,
"We're doing that as a show."
What I was told by several people was that he had said,
"You know we've spent so many years drawing out of the well,
this show was an opportunity
for us to put something back in."
- How nice
- And they were talking apparently about casting,
and he said, "Well do what you have to do,
but make sure you have all the kids."
- Aw
- All the young people.
- Aw.
- Paley said just make sure you get all the kids.
And that's the way it went.
- If only I'd known, come negotiation time.
(laughing)
- Exactly (laughing)
Pat Neal might have might have done it if she had felt able.
But I think what I remember, if I remember correctly,
this was the first show, wasn't it?
"The Homecoming?"
After she'd recovered from her stroke?
I believe. - I think so.
- I think so
So, the grueling and challenging nature of doing this show
over nine months and every day and the hours and all that.
I think it was more than she felt she could take on.
But the fact that she made that decision
really opened the door for Michael,
who was, in so many ways,
for a character that you were going to encounter every week
over and over again, rather than the special,
Michael's warmth and her accessibility.
There were so many qualities about Michael
that I think would've worked better on a weekly basis
coming into your home that maybe someone as austere
and the way Pat was.
- It was interesting
We did a panel at the Smithsonian one year
a lot of the cast, and Patricia Neal was there
and Michael said something,
this is what Michael relayed
that she had a conversation with Patricia
and said thank you so much for, you know
this has been such a gift
and I hate to say it,
but thank you for not doing it.
And Pat said to her, "I would've done it, they never asked."
- Really?
- That's what she said at that point in time.
- Okay, so that's a different story
but I could see how the two stories could go together.
You know, I could see how one thing might have happened
and then the other thing might have covered it.
I don't know.
I mean, this is scuttlebutt
- Who knows.
- Yeah, exactly.
- But I think it accrued to everyone's benefit
that Michael,
- I do too.
- That Michael was brought on the series,
and that takes nothing away from Pat's magnificent talent.
And she was a terrific lady too.
I loved working with her.
And funny, so funny.
And just delightful.
And it takes nothing away from Pat that Michael
was absolutely the right way to go for a weekly performance.
- And then Will versus Edgar or Ralph.
I mean, I think the casting for the series was perfect.
You know
- I think it was perfect all the way down the road.
You know, Andrew, basically it was just that one scene,
you know, daddy coming home which was terrific,
and he was great in it.
And I believe that he was our father and he was wonderful.
I'm not sure, I wasn't really privy
to what they were looking for in making those changes.
Of course, Will was a thing unto himself
and when they cast Will they cast a whole flavor,
you know, an incredibly lovable and wonderful...
I think what I got from these changes was more warmth.
I mean, Will Geer's warmth was just something else.
And as was Ralph's, deeply warm and present,
you know maybe that has more to do with the small screen
versus the big screen.
I really don't know.
I wasn't privy to those conversations
but I wouldn't have changed any of it.
I think it went exactly the right way.
But what I was told is that William Paley said,
"Just, just get those kids, keep those kids together."
- Well, we are so grateful that he kept us all together.
(laughing)
Now, of course you did five seasons
and then you went bye bye.
- (indistinct) work
The infinite wisdom of a 26 year old
I decided it was time to move on.
(laughing)
I don't regret it, but I look back
and I think about those years that
you guys went on with the show, and I wasn't there
with some nostalgia thinking,
"Oh, you know,
I didn't get to have that experience anymore."
And it was such a good experience
and it was such a wonderful life.
But I did feel at that point in time
that John- Boy had really grown
to a certain place age-wise and going to college
and all that,
how much more could he have been that character?
I mean, in other words
how much more was there for me to bring?
And the other factor was I wanted
to have time to do other stuff
as everybody does, after a certain point.
And I figured, and I think maybe correctly,
and it was weird at my age to have that insight,
but I thought, if I've done this show for five years,
it's gonna take 10 years
for people to start thinking about me,
to accrue the amount of work
that would balance the kind of influence
that a series, regular has.
You know, you come into people's home week after week
year after year, and then you go out
and you make a movie or a TV movie or a play.
It takes a long time to gather a body of work
that's gonna balance that initial success.
And, you know, there are people who will,
when they read my Obit in the New York Times
are gonna only think of John-Boy.
And that's fine with me.
(laughing)
- Yeah, well, it was the last episode
that we filmed together.
I mean, I remember it just being really emotional.
I don't know how it was for you?
- The last show that I did ?
Before I left ?
- Your last episode of Season 5..
Yeah, when John- Boy goes off to New York and he's leaving.
- Yeah.
That was rough.
That was really, that was very rough.
And you know, I finished the show.
I think I was also doing "Merton of the Movies"
if I'm not mistaken or something
at the Ahmanson Theater right around that time.
And I finished the show.
It was very hard.
It was really rough.
It was very hard for me.
I think it was hard for all of us.
And I went, and I was doing that play at the Ahmanson
and then I went back to New York and I got so sick.
I was so ill.
I got a terrible flu and bug.
It was really bad.
I was very sick for a couple of weeks
and I think it was unquestionably the trauma
of leaving the family.
I took two things with me,
I took my parking sign
and I had them give me the slate
from the last shot of my last scene,
which happened to be a close up.
- [Off Screen Voice] Goodnight John-Boy
- Goodnight, everybody.
I love you.
- So I have that slate of actually my last shot in the show,
which is very precious.
And it was rough.
I mean, I hated leaving.
It was a decision that part of me made
in a kind of objective way
but actually experiencing it was not fun.
I hated going, I hated saying goodbye to everybody.
It felt like something I had to do that,
would've been so much easier and more profitable
and so much more comfortable to stay with everybody.
And that would've been the easy way to go.
Leaving was emotionally very hard.
But there was a part of me that was going,
"No, five years, it's been a success.
This character has really now grown up into a man
and has to go off and have his life
and this is the right way to finish."
So I have no regrets, but it was painful to leave.
- Oh, yeah.
I mean, those sorts of goodbyes are so tough.
I remember when we were at the airport
when we finished "The Homecoming"
and the plane came back you know, little charter,
and I thought I was never gonna see any of you again.
And I was so distraught.
- That's right.
- And that same thing there, you know,
that you can have that sense that,
well, it's over and they'll never see you.
- Yeah.
- Thank goodness.
- Well, but one of the beauties of it, of us
and I think this probably happens with actors
if you've been on a series together.
Although I know that it also doesn't happen.
We've stayed a family, you know, we've remained a family.
We had our reunions which were kind of peculiar, I thought.
But there were a chance to be together.
That was the best thing about the reunions.
There were a chance for us to together
and we kept all the things that made the show work
in terms of the authentic intimacy,
bonding and love in the family.
All those things that made the show work
for people emotionally
were things that we carried on afterwards.
If that had all been fake
we probably wouldn't have stayed connected.
But because we really did connect after the show was over
those connections were made
because they were authentic and real.
I mean, my heart leaps every time
we get to be together.
It's just, it's not like anything else.
And it goes way back in all of our lives,
and it's deeply precious.
- Yeah.
- And I think we all feel that way too.
- Yeah.
How did it feel for you then,
when they recast the role?
I'm sure they asked you to come back
and you were already,
because you did some guest spots and stuff
and then I felt like Earl wanted the character back.
- I did some guest spots for a very specific reason.
I didn't want anybody to get the wrong idea
that I had left the show
because I was somehow fed up
or that there was a problem,
or that I had a bad attitude about it,
I wanted to come back for those two or three guest spots,
I did to just demonstrate
that my commitment and my love
and caring for this show was intact.
That, you know, because some people will leave a show
because they don't get along with a co-star
or because the producers want them to do something
or because they want to go on and become a movie star,
or because they want, they sort of, well, that's over now.
But I never wanted people to have that feeling.
I wanted people to,
I wanted to to reestablish my commitment
to the value of that show
by staying as connected as I could.
Now, I had worked with Robbie Wightman a few years
before we made a television movie together called
"No Other Love"
with Julie Kavner and me and him.
And I had had a wonderful time working with him.
I liked him personally very much
and he was terrific in the picture we made.
So I felt good about him doing the part.
But it is very peculiar when somebody takes over your role.
I mean, I remember when I did a play called "5th of July"
when I had quite a success in it on Broadway
in like 1980, 81.
- Yeah, I saw you in it.
- And then, not too many years ago at Signature Theater,
they did a Lanford Wilson season.
And Robert Sean Leonard played my part
in a revival of "5th of July."
And there was no way I could have played Kenny Tally again.
There was no way that I could have
but I still had that feeling when I read.
And he was perfectly cast in it.
I thought, ouch, that's my part.
Somebody else is gonna take away the soul of my performance.
But that's the nature of theater, as you know.
I mean, how many Hamlets have there been, right?
You don't own these roles, in a funny kind of way.
You can personify them and embody them
but you don't own them.
- Yeah, but you feel like you created them.
I mean that's been an interesting thing about the reunion.
- Well yeah, you did
That is the privilege,
that is the privilege of creating a role.
Absolutely.
- Yeah.
But to that degree, I think it always becomes,
rarely does a new incarnation of something.
It's hard.
We had all those years to establish those characters
in the minds of the public as well.
- That's exactly, and I felt for Robert,
I thought, you know
I thought it's not gonna be easy for him,
you know to have the bandages come off
and here's a new actor playing this beloved character.
You know, I don't remember how many seasons he did.
Did he do one or two or ?
- I think it was maybe one and a half or something.
- Okay.
- You know, but he wasn't in every episode.
- Right.
- So, yeah, yeah
- They had to do what they had to do to it
and I certainly didn't have a problem with that.
I thought, well, I left, I have no say in the matter.
I have no right to have a feeling about it
one way or the other, you know, that could be me.
- Yeah, well, you certainly have gone on
to have a very successful career.
And it's been fun for me to watch you
in all sorts of different roles
both on stage, which has been great
to go see you on stage so many times.
- I love it when you come to see
- Yeah, and if people haven't seen you in
"To Kill A Mockingbird"
and they have a chance
they absolutely should because you are brilliant in it.
And the show is fabulous.
The entire ensemble is.
- It's a wonderful company.
- So good.
- The ensemble is so good.
Well, thank you Judy.
- Yeah.
So I always cheer your successes
and I'm always you know,
there's a certain proprietor,
that's my brother and isn't he wonderful?
- Well, of course.
Absolutely.
That's how I feel.
It's completely mutual.
I mean we have we have cared for each other,
all of us for so long.
You know, it's very special.
- Then of course, you have seven children in real life.
How?
(laughing)
You became ""The Waltons""!
- John- Boy, recreated.
Well, they say you do recreate your happy
or unhappy childhood.
(laughing) - (laughing)
- It just kinda worked out that way, you know,
I mean, I had my first marriage, I had four kids.
I had triplets as you know
as well as my oldest son, Richard.
And then when I met Georgiana
she had her two wonderful daughters
and we put 'em together
and then of course that was six, but not content with that.
We had to make one of our own.
I'm so glad we did.
'Cause we have Montana who's spectacular.
And yeah, it just kind of came together that way, you know.
But yeah, seven and seven,
absolutely right.
- Yeah.
And of course Montana and my son Devon
were born like just a few weeks apart.
- Just a few weeks apart
- As we were doing that final reunion,
the Easter one.
- It really is family.
- Yeah.
- It really is.
- Yeah.
Well, I know you have shows today and I just.
- I do
I have my Atticus Finch act.
(laughing)
coming up.
- Yeah, so you need to switch back from John- Boy land,
Walton land to, you know, Finch land.
(laughing)
- Right.
- I'm gonna let you go, but it's always so
- Oh, I had a wonderful time Judy,
thanks for thanks for inviting me.
This was absolutely great.
And let's do it again.
- I would love that.
And I know everybody is going to so love us.
Our little reunion here and I'm happy really
- Deliriously happy
- (kissing sound)
Love you.
(kissing sound)
- Love you too, sweetheart.
Take care.
- You too.
I really wanna thank Richard once again for taking time
out of his tour schedule to spend this time with us here
and talk "The Waltons" life, theater, acting,
and all of that.
It's been an absolute joy for me to have Richard join me.
I will be back with more
behind the scenes of "The Waltons" and more Ask Judy.
Thanks for watching.