Angela (00:00): Hey guys, welcome back.
I'm so excited about today's video because we are going to be talking with Sarah Brubaker,
from the Mom Brief Podcast all about working as a full-time lawyer and mother and how to
balance your work life and your family life and what goes into that.
And personally for me, not having any kids, I've always been in awe and completely blown
away from full-time lawyers who are also parents because working as a full-time lawyer in and
of itself is incredibly stressful, incredibly overwhelming.
And I have always been amazed at people who can do both.
So that's what we're going to be diving into with today's video.
So if you are excited to get started, click that like button and let's get going.
I wanted to start by asking what you first did out of law school, what you were working
as, and what your path was as a professional, where you are working now.
Sarah (00:48): Yeah, so I went to law school wanting to be
a DA and prosecute.
Um, there's a long story that would take the entire episode to go into about what got me
there.
But, so I went and chose my law school based on having a criminal clinic and that knew
100% that's what I wanted to do.
Um, which I feel kind of lucky looking back.
So I remember other friends were kind of either there because their parents wanted them to
go to law school or were just kind of trying to figure it out.
And for me, law school, it was super fun, I met a lot of people, but it was also very
stressful and you are absorbing so much and spending all the time, and changing your entire
life.
So I can't imagine not knowing 100%.
This is what I want to do.
This is why.
Sarah (01:40): And having my why.
Um, but um, as life throws curve balls, um, I didn't . . . I got a job as a prosecutor
and I did that for about three and a half years and it was amazing in so many ways,
um, everything I dreamed of it and more, and being interesting and, or working on exciting
cases.
But one thing I didn't anticipate until I was already in it is the amount of physical
and emotional toll it takes on you being in court all day working on family violence cases.
Um, and I wasn't prepared for that and I'm sure as you've probably talked to with other
people you've talked to on this, law school doesn't really prepare you for on the job
and what actually happens and taking your cases home and the sacrifices you make in
your life.
So eventually I decided to leave that job, um, moved to San Diego and then I went down
the path of going in-house and negotiating contracts.
And that is now, now I'm out on my own, but I'm still negotiating contracts.
Angela (02:53): Well that sounds amazing.
I mean the being a DA is an incredible job and I wish we could dive even deeper into
that.
We might make a separate video just on that alone.
Um, but sort of keeping with the theme of this particular video, in terms of how you
balance being a full-time lawyer and a mom and a and a parent, did you plan to have children
in accordance with your career?
Did your career play a part in when you decided to have kids, or were kids part of the plan
from the beginning, or was it more of a curve ball, a surprise, unexpected situation?
Sarah (03:28): So for me, I always knew as far back as I
can remember, I wanted to have kids.
I didn't have the same fairy tale dream as other girls that I've met about wanting to
get married and the wedding thing, but kids 100% I knew, um, I wanted.
But then after law school and once I became a DA and was working insane hours, it just,
I didn't feel like it was possible.
Being in court all day and then trial all the time is like I was saying, so draining
that at that time kids were definitely not on my radar.
I was all about work.
I sacrificed, sadly, so many things in my life for work.
Um, but it seemed worth it because I felt like I was helping the world.
I started thinking more, do I want kids and decided, yes, I definitely do want to have
kids.
Sarah (04:23): Um, then got married and planned it, but we
it, but it was actually a very thoughtful, because of my career, like where, how in reality
can this work?
Because I definitely didn't want to bring kids into the world unless I could actually
devote time to them.
And I knew the amount of hours I had been working up until that point in my life, the
two wouldn't go together.
So I knew I would have to make sacrifices.
And so maybe because type A lawyer, I don't know, so I very much like planned it out and
figured out.
Like, okay, I'm going to have to think about where I can live and um, what amount of hours
and what type of job I can have once I have kids.
Um, but I think just like the DA thing, you think you know how it's going to be and you
can try and plan everything and life doesn't go exactly according to plan.
So you still have to adjust.
So once I actually had my first son, that was the biggest game changer of my entire
life by far.
Angela (05:26): At what stage of your career were you when
you had your first child and were the decisions that you were making in your career--whether
to leave the DA's office or start in-house or start on your own--were those directly
impacted by your plans to have kids or having kids?
Um, or had you already made those career moves and then you found out that you were having
a child?
Sarah (05:48): So I was in house at that point and um, I
was still working quite a few hours.
Um, I still, I, I think part of it I've come to realize because I've worked at different
companies, DA's office and other places that the workaholic part is me and follows me.
And so I, um, knew that I was going to have to make some sacrifices but still obviously
be dedicated with my career.
Um, and then where I was working at the time in-house, um, I really wanted to move up in
the company.
And then sadly, once I, once they found out I was having a child, then opportunities started
to disappear and it, um, it, I almost was no longer in the running for things and mentally,
um, it really was taking its toll on me and I realized, okay, I need to think outside
of this and about the next step in my career and what I'm going to do.
Because I originally had planned on just continuing my career there.
Um, but also the cost of living there was astronomical.
I don't know how anyone cer-, um, can afford a family in the Bay area.
And so I moved to Southern California and then that started a brand new chapter of my
life where originally I stopped working because my child wasn't sleeping at all for a year,
and I'm not exaggerating that.
Um, but I started consulting and that turned into a whole different career for me.
Angela (07:33): So when you went back to work after that first
year, when you had your first child, was that a difficult decision?
Were you deciding between staying as a full-time, stay at home mom or going back to work?
Did you always know that you were going back to work, and uh, once you went back to work,
what was that transition like?
Sarah (07:52): I had always planned on going back to work.
Um, but having a child impacts you�It impacted me more than literally anything else that
I've ever experienced in my life as far as instantaneously the minute they hand you that
little human, the world is different.
Like you are more in tune to the news.
Everything that's going on in the world suddenly becomes so much more real and my priorities
shifted after that.
All that little human was my main priority.
Up until then, sadly, even over relationships, family, everything, my career had kind of
come above most things.
I made a lot of sacrifices for my career.
But as soon as I had my son, my perspective changed on what's important.
And where I should spend my time had to be valuable if I was going to take it away from
him.
So that factored into my move for my career.
Sarah (08:57): I know a lot of women struggle.
It goes both ways on there's pressure to be a stay at home mom and not to go back to work.
And then there's pre-.
You feel, well, I felt guilty for not wanting to be a stay at home mom, but I just, it didn't
fit me.
And I know a lot of attorneys, it's hard when you've invested so much in your career to
suddenly, it's only, it's to me, part of my personality at this point that my career has
been such a huge part of my life and I've always cared deeply about it that I didn't
want to let it go.
But then there was the guilt of taking time away from my child.
So I had two kids when I went back to in-house again.
And that is quite a juggle and you constantly feel guilty either way, guilty if you're at
the office not being able to be there, like your kid's sick or um, actually I would leave
if my kid was sick, but if something comes up with your kid and you want to be with them
and then if you're with your kids, you feel guilty or have all the lingering, Oh, I need
to get this done in your to do list for the office.
Sarah (10:08): And so I felt, and I know a lot of women lawyers
who have children struggle with the constant guilt because you can't split yourself into
a million pieces and give 200% to your kids and give 200% to your job.
And um, so it's a constant battle of trying to find a balance and happiness and meet everyone's
needs.
Angela (10:38): One of the reasons I wanted to make this video
was I think that's a hard balance without kids.
And without even knowing how much more complicated, how much more difficult life can even get
once you start a family.
And so to hear, um, firsthand accounts of how you go about balancing your work and your
family life, um, to me is fascinating and incredibly interesting.
Um, because I can only imagine the answer is, is it's difficult and we do the best we
can.
Um, and that leads me to my next question, which is, uh, do you have any advice for either
women who are graduating law school who plan to have kids, women who are currently practicing,
um, that are planning to have kids or already have kids, uh, in terms of things that worked
for you and planning around your career, or once you had kids, how you balance your career
with your family time.
Um, any sort of, um, tips or tricks or life hacks or, um, strategies that helped you balance,
or helped you be able to focus time in the office and then focus time with your family.
Sarah (11:49): So once I had kids, I became the most efficient
person I've ever been in my life.
Like you don't realize and tell you have kids, how much free time you actually had, even
though you feel so busy prior to having kids, and you are so busy as an attorney, literally
every moment of my day from like I have to plan every day of the week, like what time
I'm gonna get up and how am I going to fit everything in?
And every bit of my life is like calendared and scheduled and setting alarms.
And when I work I shut off everything else and I'm so efficient, which, not that I wasn't
before, but the amount of, I know I have such limited windows to get something done and
if I don't get it done in that that time it won't get done.
So, um, so efficiency and calendaring is the way to manage it.
Sarah (12:51): Now as far as looking back, the advice that
I would give, what I've watched with my friends over their careers and myself and, and interviewing
people for my podcast, is at the end of the day, do what you absolutely love.
I know a lot of us take the first job, and you have to do what you have to do to pay
your bills, but take the first job that's offered out of law school and maybe go into
an area of law that you're not necessarily passionate about.
And I witnessed a lot of burnout and especially once you have kids, if you're not passionate
about what you're doing and deeply care about it, you're going to constantly feel even more
guilt and that it's not worth the sacrifice of time away from your family and your children
and you'll feel more and more like a burden.
But if you stick with what you deeply do care about, then one, I think you'll be so much
more successful, even if it doesn't pay as much at the beginning.
Sarah (13:55): If you stick with it, I think you can make
enough income in anything that you care about, and later if you decide to have children,
it won't feel like you're torn so much because you'll care very deeply about what you're
doing.
So my advice would be stick with what you're passionate about and find a way to do that
and build a career around it, the sooner in your career that you can, um, before you have
children.
Because once you have children, obviously it's about much harder to make meet your moves
in your career.
Not that you can't, but the sooner you do it that easier I think family and everything
else in your life will line up if you're happy.
Angela (14:39): Yeah, I think that's amazing advice and it's
interesting the two things that you said about being efficient and finding what you truly
care about doing in your career because unless and until you have some sort of push, whether
it's kids or something else, it's tough to make those two things a reality.
Because I remember when I was working in big law, I worked all the time and part of it
was the job demands that you work all the time.
But part of it was because I knew, technically I could work all night, I could work till
four in the morning, I could work all weekend, I could work on holidays and vacation.
And even though that wasn't ideal, I had the time because I didn't have kids or any other
sort of commitment that would prevent me from doing it.
And so that's what I wound up doing just because I didn't have sort of any buffer, any force
pushing back against that.
Angela (15:31): And so I wasn't efficient in the sense that
I got everything done, you know, within a set block of time.
I got everything done, but in an eternal block of time because that's what I had available
to me honestly.
And then the, and then finding out what I wanted to do wasn't a push that came until
later.
And it's interesting because I wonder if I had had kids earlier, if that would've been
the same sort of force or same sort of push that would have made me take that step and,
and leave a place that, although I enjoyed the work, I wasn't in love with the work.
And really, you know, make those hard decisions and take those difficult steps to find out
what it is I actually wanted to do and I was lucky in that sense.
But it's interesting because I never thought of kids as a guiding force in a sense that
makes you really just double down and get really, really clear about how much time you
want to be spending doing things, including in your career, and what in your career you
want to focus.
Sarah (16:29): I've also noticed through each lawyer mom
that I've interviewed for the Mom Brief Podcast, that the tipping point for them in their career
and making a major change, maybe either leaving law or going into politics or something completely
different than where their career was going was once they had children.
It's almost, you just view the world differently and what matters and what your impact is and
how you're impacting other humans and I don't know, you're just thinking bigger picture
outside of just your job in front of you.
Angela (17:07): Sarah.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for being with us today.
I know that there are a ton of working mother attorneys out there that are every single
day struggling with how to balance work life and family life.
And so just hearing your personal story is so amazing and so great.
And um, you guys, she is Sarah has an amazing podcast.
Make sure you follow her at Mom Brief podcast.
She's on Spotify, Apple podcast, everywhere where podcasts are listening will um, you
can also follow her on Instagram at @mombriefpodcast and she will have a YouTube channel out as
well, um, called Mom Brief, so be on the lookout for that.
And Sarah, thank you.
Thank you.
So for coming on Angela (17:50):
today, it was a pleasure talking with you.
Thank you so much for having me, I loved it.
Thank you guys so much for watching.
If you enjoyed that video, be sure to hit subscribe and tap that notification bell so
that you can be notified every Tuesday when new videos come out.
And of course, be sure to follow Sarah on Spotify, Instagram, YouTube, everywhere she
has her mom read podcast and I will see you guys next week.
Bye.