>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY!
WELCOME BACK TOW "THE LATE SHOW."
FOLKS, MY FIRST GUEST IS AN INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST WHO WON
A PULITZER PRIZE FOR HIS REPORTING ON HARVEY WEINSTEIN.
HIS NEW BOOK, ABOUT THE CORRUPTION AND COVER-UPS HE
ENCOUNTERED DURING THAT INVESTIGATION, IS CALLED "CATCH
AND KILL."
PLEASE WELCOME BACK TO "THE LATE SHOW" RONAN FARROW!
♪ ♪ ♪
>> NICE TOW SEE YOU AGAIN.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> Stephen: LET ME ASK YOU A QUICK QUESTION ABOUT THE
PULITZER PRIZE.
>> I LOVE A QUESTION ABOUT ABOUT THE PULITZER PRIZE.
>> Stephen: I HAVE A LOT OF PRIZES.
I DON'T HAVE ONE OF THOSE.
IS IT NICE?
>> IT HELPS TO FILL THE YAWNING VOID OF INSECURITY I'M
CONSTANTLY TRYING TO FILL.
>> Stephen: I HAVE ONE OF THOSE, TWO.
THE NEW BOOK "CATCH AND KILL", WHICH DIGS INTO YOUR REPORTING
ON HARVEY WEINSTEIN AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES AROUND IT.
HOIHOW LONG AGO DID YOUR ORIGINA ARTICLE COME OUT?
BECAUSE WE ARE-- BEFORE THAT, YOU KNOW, HASHTAG ME TOO EXISTED
AND THERE WAS AN AWARENESS OF SEXUAL ABUSE HAPPENING IN THE
WORKPLACE, SEXUAL HARASSMENT HAPPENING IN THE WORKPLACE.
IT AMPLIFIED, IT CERTAINLY ACCELERATED, BROADENED WANT
PEOPLE'S KNOWLEDGE OF THIS AND CREATED A NEW CULTURAL ERA FOR
US.
WHAT WAS-- WHEN DID THAT ACTUALLY COME OUT, THAT ARTICLE?
>> IT'S BEEN ALMOST EXACTLY TWO YEARS.
YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE WAS GRASSROOTS ACTIVISM.
BUT IT HAS BEEN INCREDIBLY MOVING TO SEE AN INDUSTRY AFTER
INDUSTRY PEOPLE STANDING UP AND SAYING ENOUGH AND STARTING TO
TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE SYSTEMS THAT KEPT THIS QUIET FOR SO
LONG.
>> Stephen: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE SYSTEMS.
THAT'S WHAT'S FASCINATING TO ME.
WE KNOW A LOT ABOUT SOME OF THE REVELATIONS OF POWERFUL MEN NOT
HELD TO ACCOUNT.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THE WAYS WERE PROTECTED.
WHAT'S "CATCH AND KILL."
IT'S AN OLD TERM, ISN'T IT?
>> IT'S A TABLOID JOURNALISM TERM.
I USE THE TERM "JOURNALISM" VERY LOOSELY.
A LOT OF OUTLETS, INCLUDING THE "NATIONAL ENQUIRER," USED TO
AQIERT RIGHTS TO A STORY IN ORDER TO NOT PUBLISH IT BUT BURY
IT AT THE BEHEST OF A POWERFUL PERSON.
>> Stephen: A PROTECTIVE BUY WHERE YOU TAKE IT AND YOU GO
AWAY.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
AND IT WAS USED IN THIS PLOT IN LITERALLY I'M FOLLOWING A TRAIL
OF CLUES FROM THE "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" WORK FOG SMEAR VICTIMS
WILL OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN AND BURY STORIES FOR HIM, AND ALL
THE WAY TO THE TOP, IF YOU WILL, THE COLLABORATION BETWEEN
PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE "NATIONAL ENQUIRER."
AND IT'S USED FIGURATIVELY, STEPHEN, BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT
THESE BROADER PATTERNS IN OUR PROFESSION IT'S MEDIA WORLD--
THAT KEPT THESE STORIES BURY GLD I'M NOT SURE WE HAVE THE SAME
PROFESSION, BUT THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> I CONSIDER YOU A TOUGH JOURNALIST AND YOU MAKE A CAMEO
ON "CATCH AND KILL."
>> Stephen: I DID SEE ON PAGE 401-- JUST RAPIDOMLY.
>> HE DID NOT READ THE BOOK.
HE WENT STRAIGHT TO THE INDEX, STRAIGHT TO HIS NAME GLI GO
STRAIGHT TO THE FILET OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
>> IT'S THE IMPORTANT PART.
>> Stephen: "ON CBS STEPHEN COLBERT LOOKED AT ME NARROWLY"--
>> RIGHT.
>> Stephen: AND I SAID, "I DIDN'T WANT THE STORY TO BE
ABOUT ME AND CHANGED THE SUBJECT."
I WAS ASKING ABOUT NEEBSZ NOT RUNNING THE STORY ORIGINALLY.
AND I SAID-- COLBERT SAID, "PART OF THE STORY IS THE STORY NOT
BEING TOLD FOR SO LONG, AND YOU EXPERIENCING THE STORY NOT BEING
TOLD."
FIRST OF ALL, THIS COLBERT CHARACTER SEEMS PRETTY SHARP.
>> PRETTY SHARP.
( LAUGHTER )
>> Stephen: I'M SURPRISED IT TOOK YOU TO PAGE 401 TO GET HIM
IN THERE.
>> WE'LL SEE ABOUT MOVING HIM UP IN THE REPRINTS.
>> Stephen: BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.
WHAT WAS THE STATUS OF THIS STORY BEFORE YOU TOOK IT TO THE
"NEW YORKER"?
WHERE WERE YOU WITH NBC ON THIS STORY?
>> SO, THERE'S BEEN MUCH DISCUSSION OF THIS.
THE FACT IS-- AND IT'S LAID OUT VERY CLEARLY IN THE BOOK-- WE
HAD WHAT I CONSIDERED TO BE AN REPORTABLE BODY OF EVIDENCE.
WE HAD PASSED STANDARDS AND LEGAL REVIEWS OF VARIOUS KINDS.
WE ARE TAPES OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN ADMITTING TO SEXUAL ASSAULTS,
NAMES OF MULTIPLE WOMEN.
BUT THAT IS A DISTRACTION FROM THE MAIN STORY WHICH YOU WERE
ASKING ABOUT AND I WAS DODGING QUESTIONS ABOUT, MY PRODUCER AND
I AT NBC WERE ORDERED AGAIN AND AGAIN TO STOP.
IT WAS, "DON'T TAKE THIS INTERVIEW.
CANCEL THIS INTERVIEW WITH THE RAPE VICTIM.
DON'T TAKE A SINGLE CALL ON THIS.
STAND DOWN."
>> Stephen: WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME THAT STORY AT THE TIME?
WOULD IT HAVE TAKEN YOU 401 PAGES TO TELL THE ANSWER TO
THAT?
>> PART OF THE ANSWER IS YES.
RUNNING THROUGH THE BOOK IS THIS STRUGGLE ABOUT WHETHER TO SPEAK
ABOUT THIS.
AND WE HAVE ALL, IN OUR PROFESSION IN THE LAST FEW YEARS
DEALT WITH THIS STRUGGLE OF WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN THESE ALLEGATIONS
HIT YOUR OWN HOUSE?
WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN IT HITS SO CLOSE TO HOME.
>> Stephen: SO THE PEOPLE PROTECTING "QUEER E HARVEY WEINS
THAT MOMENT WERE PEOPLE AT NBC.
>> A LOT OF PEOPLE CAUGHT ON IT THAT AND IT IS VERY HARD TO
SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER WHEN IT'S YOUR OWN BOSSES.
I DID A LOT OF REPORTING ON CBS, AND YOU WERE AMONG THE FIRST TO
BE REALLY PRINCIPLED AND GET ON TV AND SAY, "HE'S MY BOSS.
BUT HE HAS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE."
THAT'S A TOUGH THING TO DO.
I WON'T MAKE YOU BLUSH BY TALKING ABOUT IT.
BUT I ADMIRE THAT.
WE SEE PEOPLE AT NBC SAYING THAT.
PEOPLE LIKE CHRIS HAYES SAYING THESE ARE THE TOUGH QUESTIONS TO
ASK AND THE KILLING OF THE STORY IS WRONG.
AND I WAS IN THE SAME POSITION, STEPHEN, STRUGGLING WITH I DON'T
WANT TO BE THE STORY.
I'M THE REPORTER.
I SPENT A YEAR LIVING IN THE DRAMATIC ACCUSATIONS THESE BRAVE
WOMEN DID, AND THE LAST THING I WANTED WAS TO BURN MY
PROFESSIONAL BRIDGES AND MAKE THE STORY ABOUT ME.
BUT AS MORE AND MORE PEOPLE CAME FORWARD AND TALKED ABOUT
COVER-UPS AND THE PATTERN OF SECRET SETTLEMENTS TO BURY THIS
KIND OF STUFF, I REALLIED IT WAS A STORY I HAD TO TELL AND IT
WOULD TAKE 400 PAGES TO DO IT.
>> Stephen: HERE'S HOW I KNOW WE'RE NOT IN THE SAME PROFESSION
IS I LOVE BEING THE STORY.
YOU TOUCHED ON THIS A MOMENT OKAY.
WE HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT TRUMP AND QUID PRO QUO, LATELY.
EXPLAIN THE RELATIONSHIP THAT DONALD TRUMP HAD WITH THE
"NATIONAL ENQUIRER", WHICH IS OWNED BY A.M.I., WHICH IS
AMERICAN MEDIA...
>> INCORPORATED.
>> Stephen: INCORPORATED, OKAY.
WHAT WAS THE QUID QUO PRO BETWEEN A.M.I. AND TRUMP.
I KNOW WHAT TRUMP WAS GETTING, WHICH IS TO GET HIS BUTT
COVERED-- AND IT TAKES A FAIR AMOUNT OF PAPER.
( LAUGHTER )
THIS.
>> I FOLLOW A TRAIL OF CLUES FROM HARVEY WEINSTEIN WORKING
WITH A.M.I., AND TRUMP WORKING WITH A.M.I., THE PRACTICE OF
CATCH AND KILL, DURING THE 2016 ELECTION, TRUMP ASSOCIATES
WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" TO SUPPRESS,
FOR INSTANCE, VARIOUS STORIES ABOUT AFFAIRS.
THERE WAS A DOORMAN AT TRUMP TOWER WHO CLAIMED TO HAVE A
STORY ABOUT A TRUMP LOVE CHILD, NOT CLEAR IF THE UNDERLYING
STORY WAS ACCURATE, BUT THE TRANSACTION WHERE THEY WERE
PAYING PEOPLE TO BURY THE TRUTH OR BURY A RUMOR WERE NEWS AND
THEY WERE POTENTIAL VIOLATIONS OF ELECTION LAW.
AND ULTIMATELY AFTER-- I GET LIED TO A LOT IN THIS BOOK,
STEPHEN, LIED TO, LIED TO, LIED TO.
AND A.M.I.SAID, "NO, WE DIDN'T PUBLISH THIS STUFF BECAUSE IT
DIDN'T MEET OUR EXACTING JOURNALISTIC STANDARDS."
AND THE BOOK REVEALS A COUPLE OF INSTANCES INCLUDING
COLLABORATION GOING AFTER A STORY INCLUDING TRUMP AND
EPSTEIN.
>> Stephen: WHAT'S THE STORY BETWEEN TRUMP AND EPSTEIN?
>> THERE WAS AN ANONYMOUS LAWSUIT FILED BY AN UNNAMED JANE
DOE, ALLEGING WHEN H SHE WAS UNDERAGED THERE WAS AN ASSAULT
INVOLVING TRUMP AND EPSTEIN AND HUMAN TRAFFICKING.
THE STORY, WHERE IT'S NOT CLEAR IF THE UNDERLYING ALLEGATION WAS
TRUE.
THE SOURCE PROVED TO BE ELUSIVE.
BUT THERE WAS AN EFFORT WHERE THERE WERE CLOSE CONVERSATIONS
BETWEEN THE TRUMP CAMP AND A.M.I., AND THEY SENT A REPORTER
OUT TO TRY TO GET THAT STORY.
ALL OF THIS BECOMES IMPORTANT BECAUSE AS YOU SAY, IT IS A QUID
QUO PRO, AND ON TUSM'S END YOU WIND UP WITH VARIOUS STORIES
SUPPRESSED THAT COULD HAVE A MATERIAL EFFECT ON OUR
POLITICS-- >> Stephen: DO YOU KNOW HOW
MANY STORIES?
>> I SEE FOR THE FIRST TIME ANY JOURNALIST HAS HEENE SEINE IT IN
THIS BOOK A MASTER LIST OF ALL THE HISTORICAL DIRT THAT TRUMP--
ABOUT TRUMP IN THE A.M.I.
ARCHIVES.
>> Stephen: HOW MANY STORIES.
>> IT'S CALLED "KILLED STORIES ABOUT DONALD TRUMP."
AND IT'S ABOUT 60-- I SHOULD SAY THE HEADLINE HERE IS NOT THAT
THERE'S SOME EXPLOSIVE UNKNOWN HEADLINE.
THE STORY IS THE COVER.
THE UNDERLYING CONDENT IS THERE ARE ABOUT FIVE AFFAIRS, AND THE
JILL HARTH CASE WHICH HAS BECOME PUBLIC.
REALLY THE STORY WAS THEY MADE THIS LIST, THAT THEY WERE
WORKING WITH TRUMP, AND THAT RIGHT BMPT ELECTION, THEY
ACTUALLY SHRED A BUNCH OF STUFF ON IT.
THERE'S A SHREDDING PARTY.
>> Stephen: BUT THEY STILL KNOW THAT THESE STORIES EXISTED,
AND AS YOU WERE SAYING, THEY HAVE THAT OVER THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES?
>> RIGHT, SO THERE'S A COUPLE WAYS THE POWER FLOWS IN THIS
RELATIONSHIP.
ONE IS DAVID PECKER, THE HEAD OF THE NARCO NARCO "NATIONAL ENQUIR
PERKS, INAUGURAL EVENTS AND FLYING ON TRUMP'S PLANE TO
DINNER AT THE WHITE HOUSE AND INTRODUCTIONS TO WEALTHY SAUDIS
THAT COULD REVIVE THE AILING "NATIONAL ENQUIRER," AND ON
TRUMP'S END, YOU COULD GET A DISTORTION OF THE ELECTION.
THESE ARE PATTERNS THAT KEEP THE TRUTH AWAY FROM THE PUBLIC.
THIS MATTERS FOR OUR DEMOCRACY.
>> Stephen: WHEN WE COME BACK, I'LL ASK RONAN ABOUT SOME OF THE
CRAZY STUFF THAT HAPPENED TO HIM WHEN HE WAS REPORTING THESE
STORIES.
RONAN FARROW, EVERYBODY.
STICK AROUND.