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♪ ♪ ♪ >> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY.
WE'RE BACK WITH THE HOSTS OF "SLATE POLITICAL GABFEST," JOHN
DICKERSON, EMILY BAZELON, AND DAVID PLOTZ.
I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON PART OF YOUR POINT THERE, JOHN, AND THIS
IS FOR EVERYBODY AND SORT OF BASED UPON WHAT JAMAL BUOY SAID
IN LAST WEEK'S GABFEST-- WE MISS YOU DAVID.
IT WAS WHY ARE THE REPUBLICANS STICKING BY THIS GUY?
BECAUSE DONT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING UP-- YOUR TOM COTTONS,
YOUR TED CRUZS, YOUR NIKI HALEYS-- DON'T THEY REALLY WANT
HIM OFF THE SCENE, BECAUSE IF THE NEXT PRIMARY, THE NEXT 2024
PRIMARY IS ABOUT WHO CAN BE MOST LIKE DONALD TRUMP, THEN DONALD
TRUMP WILL WIN THAT AND STAYING CLOSE TO HIM IS MERELY GOING TO
GIVE HIM MORE POWER?
WHY WON'T THEY GIVE HIM THE DOOR?
>> I MEAN, I WONDER IF THEY WILL AND WE JUST HAVEN'T GOTTEN THERE
YET.
LIKE, THEY HAVE A COLLECTIVE ACTION PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY'RE
ALL CANDIDATES ALSO COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER.
BUT ONCE TRUMP IS NOT PRESIDENT AND DOESN'T HAVE QUITE THE SAME
MICROPHONE AND PERHAPS HOLD ON HIS SPACE, ISN'T IT MORE
POSSIBLE WE'LL SEE THOSE PEOPLE IN PARTICULAR HAVE A TOTAL
INCENTIVE TO REACH THE VOTERS ON THEIR OWN, START TO MOVE AWAY
FROM HIM?
I DON'T KNOW, JOHN, WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> WELL, ANYONE IN HIS PARTY OR OUTSIDE OF HIS PARTY WHO THINKS
THEY CAN CONTROL OR DEFINE WHAT DONALD TRUMP DOES HAS BEEN
DELIVERED DEFEAT AFTER DEFEAT.
SO I THINK ANY STRATEGY THEY MAY HAVE FOR TRYING TO MOVE HIM
ASIDE I THINK IS GOING TO LOSE.
WHAT INTERESTS ME IS WHETHER HE RUNS OR NOT OR TRIES TO PLAY
KING MAKER IS WHETHER HE HAS CHANGED THE MARKET FOR
COMPETITION AMONG THOSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO BE PRESIDENT.
HAS HE CHANGED THE WAY TO APPEAL TO THE BASE OF THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY?
AND HAS HE CHANGED THE EXPECTATION OF THAT BASE IN
TERMS OF WHAT HE WANTS, WHAT CANDIDATES NEED TO TALK ABOUT TO
EVEN GET A HEARING?
SO, CLEARLY, DONALD TRUMP OPENED THE OVERTON WINDOW ABOUT WHAT
WAS POSSIBLE IN POLITICS AND WHAT TO SAY.
THE QUESTION IS WHETHER HE TURNED INTO A TICKET WINDOW.
DOES ANYBODY WANTING FAVOR IN THE FUTURE FROM REPUBLICANS HAVE
TO BEHAVE LIKE HIM, HAVE TO BELIEVE IN THE CONSPIRACIES THAT
HE PROMOTES, HAS TO BASICALLY SUPPORT HIS SET OF IDEAS JUST TO
GET A HEARING IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS?
AND THAT'S A WAY IN WHICH THE QUESTION IS, THAT'S A WAY IN
WHICH HE CAN HAVE A LONG-STANDING INFLUENCE ON THE
PARTY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT HIS PARTICULAR FORTUNES ARE.
>> I WORRY IN THAT VEIN THAT NONE OF THE OTHERS-- WELL, I
DON'T WORRY.
NO ONE ELSE HAS THE CHARISMA THAT TRUMP HAS.
TRUMP HAS A CERTAIN CHAOTIC EVIL CHARISMA THAT NONE OF THE OTHER
FOLKS HAVE.
THE ONLY PERSON I SEE COMING UP IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS
TUCKER CARLSON, I COULD SEE CHANNELING THIS.
BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SUFFICIENT TO HAVE THOSE SAME
IDEAS AND CONSPIRACY THEORIES IS ALSO GOING TO REQUIRE A KIND
OF...
WICKED CHARISMA.
>> Stephen: BEFORE WE GO, TWO QUICK QUESTIONS.
ONE IS WILL YOU MAKE A GUESS RIGHT NOW, IF YOU DON'T MIND.
DOES DONALD TRUMP OUT OF POWER LOSE HIS BASE?
BECAUSE MY THEORY IS STRONGMAN IS STRONGMAN UNTIL STRONGMAN
EVER WEAK.
AND THEN STRONGMAN NEVER STRONG.
THAT THERE IS A NATURE TO SOMEONE WHO IS AUTOCRATIC
CURIOUS, AND A BASE THAT FOLLOWS THAT FIGURE THAT HE MUSTN'T EVER
LOSE.
AND REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE SAYS, HE'S LOST, AND HE WILL BE OUT OF
POWER IN ABOUT 35 DAYS.
>> BUT, STEPHEN, DON'T YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT THIS LAST MONTH HAS
BEEN, WHICH IS AN EFFORT TO BASICALLY REDEFINE LOSS AND THAT
BASED ON POLL, THERE ARE MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE
AND A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE PARTY AND A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN
THE MEDIA WHO ARE SUPPORTING THAT IDEA.
SO THAT, IN OTHER WORDS, HE JUST REDEFINES IT.
SO IN ORDER, STRONGMAN DIDN'T LOSE.
>> Stephen: I LIKE YOU.
I DON'T LIKE YOUR ANSWER.
>> IS IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT OR BECAUSE YOU DON'T BELIEVE
IT?
>> Stephen: I JUST DON'T WANT TO THINK IT.
I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT IN MY BEAUTIFUL MIND.
BEFORE YOU GUYS GO, AGAIN, CONSIDERATIONS ON 15 YEARS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK MAKES THE SHOW WORK?
BECAUSE IT IS-- IT IS, TO ME, THE BEST PODCAST OUT THERE.
>> I-- I'LL TAKE A QUICK STAB.
I THINK IT'S THAT WE LOVE AND TRUST EACH OTHER AND WE BEGAN AS
FRIENDS AND WE HAVE BECOME GREATER FRIENDS.
AND IT'S THIS-- I THINK IN A LOT OF PLACES IN MEDIA, THERE'S A
SENSE IF YOU SAY SOMETHING WRONG, YOU'RE GOING TO GET YOUR
HEAD TAKEN OFF.
AND I THINK EACH OF US HAS SAID INCREDIBLY STUPID THINGS OVER
THE YEARS.
( LAUGHTER )
BY EACH OTHER, BUT ALWAYS IN THE MOST LOVING WAY.
IT FEELS LIKE A FAMILY WHERE YOU HAVE THESE TWO WISE PARENTS IN
JOHN AND EMILY, AND I'M SORT OF LIKE THE UNCLE WHO TRADES
BITCOIN ON THE SIDE.
BUT IT'S ALL ONE FAMILY.
>> YEAH, BUT IT'S-- WE'RE NICER TO EACH OTHER THAN PEOPLE ARE--
OR AT LEAST-- AT LEAST I AM TO MY FAMILY.
SO IT'S LUKE A FAMILY WITH, LIKE, THE VENEER OF CIVILITY.
>> Stephen: THAT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T RECORD YOUR FAMILY DINNERS
LIKE YOU DO THE "GABFEST" EVER WEEK.
>> EXACTLY.
>> WE ALL LIVE IN THESE TWO WORDS.
THERE ARE OUR OTHER JOBS-- WE ALL HAVE OTHER JOBS.
I'M ON, I THINK, MY FOURTH JOB SINCE WE STARTED 15 YEARS AGO.
YOU KNOW, WHEN I THINK ABOUT THOSE TWO WORLDS, I'M INCREDIBLY
LUCKY THAT MY CBS WORK AND THE PEOPLE I WORK WITH AND THE
RELATIONSHIPS I HAVE THERE, AND I THINK I AM-- I RECOGNIZE THAT
LUCKINESS AND I AM BETTER AT DOING THAT PART OF MY LIFE
BECAUSE OF MY RELATIONSHIP WITH EMILY AND DAVID WHO HAVE MADE ME
A BETTER PERSON AND A BETTER JOURNALIST.
AND I LOVE THE WAY IN WHICH WE INTERACT, BUT I ALSO LOVE THE
WAY IN WHICH THEY'VE MADE ME, YOU KNOW, BETTER IN MY OTHER
LIFE AT CBS, TOO.
>> Stephen: WELL, THANK YOU FOR AN AMAZING 15 YEARS OF YOUR
PODCAST.
AND I LOOK FORWARD TO ANOTHER 15 MORE.
THE 15th ANNIVERSARY EPISODE OF THE "SLATE POLITICAL GABFEST"
AIRS LIVE TOMORROW.
EMILY BAZELON, JOHN DICKERSON, AND DAVID PLOTZ, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH A PERFORMANCE BY
GRETA VAN FLEET.