- As the child grows and as you,
as a parent train that child
then more freedom should be granted
to make their own decisions--
- But I don't think we should train our children.
I feel like you train a dog and not a kid.
- I think train is a good word.
- I don't wanna train child.
- Okay. Well, I do.
- Maryland parents are accused of child neglect
after allowing their two kids to walk home alone
from a park about a mile away.
- [Interviewer] When you hear the term free-range parent,
what do you think of?
- I see a wide range within free-range parenting
but parents that basically let their kids do
whatever they want and I see that as a recipe for disaster.
- When I think of a strict parent,
I think of someone who might be more concerned
with the behavior of the child than the heart of the child.
- I actually do consider myself strict
but I wanna be emotionally conscious.
- We've been told
by this oppressive safety obsessed terrified society
that you can never let your kid do anything on their own,
maybe till they're like 36.
- It's a luxury to be a free-reign parent
because they're the certain privilege that goes with that.
- Being a strict parent, I think, first of all,
I imagine stress,
should be a really fun time of your life.
Why follow all these rules when you wanna enjoy your kids?
- Hi, I'm Hal Chaffee.
I have five kids. I'm a minister and we live in Maryland.
- I'm Christian. I am a birth and postpartum doula
as well as the newborn care specialist.
I have one daughter who is seven.
- Hi, I'm Jenny Atkins.
I have two daughters.
I'm a health coach
and I wrote a children's healthy cookbook.
- My name's Nguyen.
I live in Los Angeles. I have one child.
So I'm a chef restaurant author.
- I'm Jody, and I'm the CEO of The Madden House
and I have eight children and I'm from LA.
- Hi to everybody. I'm Lenore Skenazy.
I'm the mother of two
and I founded the book blog and movement,
"Free-Range Kids," surprise! (everyone laughing)
I founded the "Free-Range Kids" movement.
I let my nine-year-old ride the subway
in New York City by himself.
I wrote a column and two days later,
I was on "The Today Show", "MSNBC", "Fox News"
and "NPR" defending my parenting style
and I started "Free-Range Kids" that weekend
as a blog to say, "Look, I believe in safety."
I just don't think that we have to have a security detail
every time we let our kids out of the house.
- [Interviewer] So, can I have my free-range parents
on the left and my strict parents on the right.
- [Hal] See you later, free ready friends.
- [Interviewer] Children should be trusted
to make their own decisions.
(Lenore laughing)
- So, of course children should make their own decisions.
I mean, we're trying to raise them to be responsible adults.
If they don't make decisions, they'll never learn.
- When my child is possibly gonna make a bad decision,
what I want to do is not telling what's a bad decision.
I think that's the wrong thing to do
because then, ultimately it's probably gonna reject
that anyway.
- Also, it depends on what we're talking
about decisions about like,
if it's bedtime and you want your kids
to be in bed at eight o'clock, I think that is up to you
but I remember a time my son called me.
He was 10 at the time and he said,
"Mom, can I have another piece of banana bread?"
And I thought, I felt bad
because of course that's a very simple decision.
They expected that I was the one to decide almost everything
about what they were eating and doing
and I felt like there was something wrong
and that actually started me reevaluating things.
Can they climb the tree?
Just let 'em climb the tree.
- And what's the worst that can happen,
they break an arm? Oh well.
- Well, for my kids specifically, she can go outside
and play after school and she can draw
and she can do whatever
but there is a very healthy boundary
like we don't have the type of healthcare
that most people have
so like, no, you can't climb a tree,
if it's like, "Oh, I don't wanna play violin anymore,"
but it's like, you can't.
You're not allowed to quit things that you start
because even as an adult, you become a flaky adult.
- Well, you see so many parents nowadays who just like bend
to every whim of their child.
Children should be trusted to make their own decisions
when it is wise for them to make their own decisions.
I'm not gonna let my five-year-old decide
that he's not gonna brush his teeth anymore 'cause he does--
- No, no.
- As the child grows
and as you, as a parent train that child
then more freedom should be granted
to make their own decisions. It should be a--
- But I don't think we could train our children.
I feel like you train a dog and not a kid.
- I think train is a good word.
- I don't wanna train child.
- Okay. Well I do.
- I want my child - I want my child
- to be trained - who has creativity
- to be respectful - and maybe not like me
- Yeah, I'm not saying is to be like me.
- Do you think you need to train them to be respectful
or do you think that you guide them
in a way to learn to be respectful
because of the decisions they've chosen?
- Both.
(swoosh sound)
- [Interviewer] So what would you consider
your parenting style to be?
- I try to be as biblical as I can
when it comes to parenting.
I know a lot of people would disagree on that
but I have five kids and I do my best to follow it
and I found so much wisdom and it's worked.
- I don't really follow rules,
even if it's a theory of free-range parenting, per se,
if you're following those free-range parenting rules
then you become strict
and I don't think that there should be rules.
It should be whatever the day brings.
(click sound)
- [Interviewer] Kids deserve privacy.
- [Lenore] Wait, I don't know.
- [Nguyen] Absolutely.
- Yes.
- Here we go.
- [Jenny] Oh wait, we have a straggler.
- Even though they're not adults are still people
and they need time to either hear their thoughts
or process things or just, they need a sense of comfort
and solitude and things that are sacred to them.
- So, I don't have any teenagers yet.
There's no way--
- Just wait. (laughing)
- [Hal] There's no way.
- Maybe my opinion will change.
- I mean, there's no way that I'm not gonna have access
to their cell phone, that that's not gonna happen
but, if they want time alone, I think that's fine
and they should have that and it's healthy to do that.
The reason I hesitated is
because I think back to my childhood,
there were things that happened sometimes
that can last with you for the rest of your life.
People can be abused online now
so when I have that parent spidey sense
of something's not right here
and my kids gonna be like,
"No, you can't have my cell phone."
"Yes I can."
(swoosh sound)
- In our household, we live by this kind of thought,
"Live your life in such a way
that if everyone could see what you're doing in private
that you wouldn't be ashamed."
So my kids also look through my phone.
Privacy is not something a child should be entitled to have.
Do we give our kids quiet downtime? Yes.
Am I looking through all their stuff? No.
- I actually agree with the definition
of downtime and privacy.
At my house, there's no privacy
'cause you don't pay any bills.
She also trusts me and I've wanted to make a relationship
to where she trusts me that
even if she came to tell me like, there's no yell,
I don't yell and I don't scream
and I don't do any things like that.
We're very open, but there is no privacy.
- So I just wanted to put in a plea though
for some privacy.
I go around and I talk about free-range kids
and sometimes what I ask the audience is
to tell me when something did go wrong
and I ask them, "Did you tell your parents?
What do you think they said?
- [All] No.
- Why do you think they said it?
- [Jody] Fear - [Christian] Fear
- Fear? Fear of what?
- Being in trouble.
- You think it's trouble.
They said, they didn't want their freedom taken away.
- I think it's important though
that we hold our children accountable
because in the world, there are plenty of adults
who are not held accountable
who've never been held accountable
and they just do things that are terrible.
- But most of childhood is little things
and you don't have to be there for everyone
because that's when kids start realizing, I can handle this.
(swoosh sound)
- [Interviewer] When you hear the term free-range parent,
what do you think of
- Privilege, the ability to just do things
without any repercussions or consequences.
As a black person or a person of color,
we sometimes just don't have the privilege
to allow our children to be free-range.
Although, I would love for her to be free spirit
and just do and be,
she can't because black kids get murdered in the street.
(swoosh sound)
- [Interviewer] Parents should be parents and not friends.
(Christian laughing)
- No, this is a hard, this is actually hard for me.
My job is not to be my kid's friend.
It's to be their parent
but I don't think that is mutually exclusive
of not being their friend either if that makes any sense.
But I prioritize, right, being the parental unit.
- Me and my mom, I would say that she's my best friend
but like, as a child, it was, she was my mom
and I hope to have that type
of relationship with my daughter
but right now, I'm the parent and you're the child
because I don't want you to lose respect for me
like I'm not gonna go clubbing with my daughter,
like there's just some things that I'm just not gonna do
that I do with my friends but I'm not gonna do with my kid.
(swoosh sound)
- I agree that I'm their mom first,
but I'm also their friend.
I'm also someone that they trust and admire and they come to
and I listen to them and I give them my opinions
and we have forged a friendship,
but it's not without my position as the authority
in their life, their provider, their comfort, their mama.
- In my mind, once my kids are 18
or let's just say moved out of the house, they are an adult
and at that point, I wanna stop parenting.
If I haven't parented enough by the time they're 18
then that was my chance.
I don't wanna be a parent after 18.
And when it comes to clubbing, I hope
that when my kid is old and grown up
and they're going out for a beer at a bar,
whatever they're doing, of course, I wanna come with them.
- But here's the thing I just wanna stay
on the other side of that is that we never stop growing up.
I mean, man, I don't have parents. I wish I did.
There's some times where I just,
I wish I could just ask for help.
I mean, my grandmother just passed away in May
and I remember like, just feeling like, what am I gonna do?
And that was not a friend moment.
That was me hiding like a little child
on her lap weeping, crying and needing that.
- [Jenny] I guess I don't want that.
- No, you're gonna do that.
If your kid comes to you,
I'm sure you will. - Of course,
- You will, right. - I guess I just want this.
- I want them to be very independent.
- Right, right, right, but you can be very independent.
She's super independent. - Yeah, yeah for sure.
- With your own mother, do you have a mother?
And if you do, do you ever just need your mama sometimes?
Do you ever just-- - Not really.
- You don't need to like-- - No,
- Get hugs or--
- I speak to her like she's my friend.
- Okay. - Now,
and I think I spoke to her as my friend
when I was growing up as well
because she never, she didn't parent. I had no rules
- And that's, so that explains a lot
when you talk about your philosophy,
it's really a firsthand account
where maybe some of the rest of us are like exploring
how we might want to parent.
- Right, but we all raise our children probably
according to a little bit of
how we were raised. - [Hal] What we know.
- What we know, what we wished had been different
and then there's so many societal influences.
- [Jenny] Sure.
(swoosh sound)
- [Interviewer] You mentioned before, you were kind
of facing everything on your own
that you didn't have parents to kinda guide you.
How do you think that that has shaped the way
that you parent?
- Growing up without the security
of knowing who I was and knowing
that I was dearly loved and cherished
by my mother and father was soul crushing for me.
As a mother, I have the opportunity
to raise up a new generation of healthy whole individuals
who are able to go forth
and create new families of their own
and be a light in this world
and that's really what my hope is of my children.
- [Interviewer] Spanking your child
is an acceptable form of punishment.
- What? I don't wanna get involved at all.
- Yeah, this is not.
- [Jody] Do we have to?
- [Lenore] We don't have to do it at all.
- [Jody] I don't even wanna stand back here.
- [Interviewer] Well, we don't have to,
you guys don't have to participate
in the conversation whatsoever.
- [Jody] But is it gonna show our position
like standing back or sitting?
- [Interviewer] We do see you guys in the background
but we just wanna hear his perspective
then people can walk forward.
but if you don't wanna participate
in the conversation whatsoever, you don't have to.
- Well, yeah so I'm kind of sad
that nobody else walked forward
because not only do I think it's an acceptable form
of punishment, but I think it's one of the best
and the reason is because it's effective,
it's quick, it's over, it's done
and the kid can go off and play again and not have to sit
in a corner or languish in a room or something like that
and it's not about getting angry.
I'm mad. I'm gonna whack my kid.
No, it's about,
"Okay, you did something you weren't supposed to do
and you're going to get spanked for this."
(swoosh sound)
- [Interviewer] So I'm gonna ask any of my disagrees
who wish to step forward to talk about this, please do.
If you wish not to step forward, you don't have to.
- The specific anecdote I have is for my child is one time
like, as a parent, you can lose your patience
and that happens.
We were just kind of like slap him on the hand
when he did something like, "Don't do that, don't do that."
And I remember one time, he did something
and he started become more self-aware
and he started hitting himself on the hand
and hitting himself
and I was like, "I can't do this is, I can't,
we can't go down this path with him.
This is not gonna work for at least specifically for him."
And I think it's a case by case basis too
like, you've led your kids in a way
that hopefully he doesn't lash out into the real world.
I don't want him to react like that to someone else either
and I just feel like that's my responsibility so.
- Yeah, and I hear that opponents to spank
and will say, "I don't want my child to be violent."
I have five kids, 10 and under,
and the exact opposite is true.
- Because do you think it's a bad memory for them?
- What's that?
- Do you think that they're gonna have memories
of these times being spanked and that it will be--
- Sure and I think
- they'd be thankful for it? - Something that they be--
- I would do because I talk--
- I mean, I would be lying
if I said I never have spanked my child.
Of course but I don't ever,
I don't feel good about it.
Don't you wanna raise your child
to not want to do things
because they feel as if they'll be a better person
not because they're going to be punished for it?
- Yeah, both. See, this is hard for me to understand
because I come from a culture
where everyone like all my friends have loving parents
that spanked them as kids
and now they've grown up to be great functional,
well functional adults who respect their parents
and are glad their parents spanked them.
- Okay. I'm just gonna tell, say my view
so I don't spank my child one,
because of child slavery and Jim Crow, I'm a black person
and I live in a world
where black people are beat in all the time.
I have a mother who spanked me.
I'm not glad that I was spanked.
I respect her, but I'm not happy about that.
Also the same thing with the people who are like,
I was spanked, I came out, right.
They usually have like anger issues.
They're violent. They whoop their own kids.
They probably need therapy.
Usually, they don't even realize
how emotionally (beep) up they are.
- Well, you gotta understand.
Parenting is more than just I spank or I don't spank.
If you're a terrible parent,
and you think that spanking's gonna fix your kid,
you're wrong.
(swoosh sound)
- [Interviewer] I sometimes fear
I am raising my children the wrong way.
- I think part of parenting is always worrying.
I mean, as hard as I try to do the right things,
there's always doubts in your mind
that you've done something wrong.
- I love to tell parents, especially new ones
that we're all wing it.
We're making mistakes every day
but the good thing about it is that our kids still love us
they still look at us like, mommy
and their eyes-- - Or friends.
- Right, right, right, club buddy.
- So like parenting is literally
just like one huge experiment.
- That's a nice expression.
Parenting is one huge as experiment.
People think that I have the answer
'cause I wrote "Free-Range Kids" and I run this, let grow
and all I can say is
that believing in your kids, believing in them
whether you give them a time out or you're spanking them,
believing that your kids have this capacity
for being a decent human being
and they're gonna make mistakes, they're gonna be okay.
That's what kids want.
(swoosh sound)
- So first of all, I think that parents are too hard
on themselves and you know what,
ultimately your children gonna make their own decisions.
For me, I don't wonder about whether
or not I'm raising my kids right
'cause I try to raise my kids according
to what the Bible says
and so I have a guide
that I fall short fulfilling all the time,
but I look to it as my guide.
And so just a few simple guidelines
if you follow and you love your kids,
you care about 'em and spend time with them
then ultimately they're gonna be okay.
- I just love my kids so much
and I give them 110%.
One of the neat things that I'm giving my kids,
it's a little bit different is a mother
and father who are married and faithful to one another
which I didn't have that.
And so, it makes me feel really good
that I'm giving them that.
I know that I'll never just be totally set
in my ways and be unwilling
to change and to become a better mother
so I will never give up growing myself.
- The one piece of parenting advice I give everyone
is don't listen to all the advice
because the beautiful thing
about parenting is it's not what you're teaching your child
but sometimes what you're learning with your child.
- I think we all just want the same things.
Everybody wants their children to be confident
and secure in their love.
- It's just a lot of fun to have kids
and I always tell people, I said
"If you want to be a happier person, have more kids
'cause kids are just so much fun."