Will Ghamidi Saab's thought become popular a hundred years from now?
[Hassan Ilyas] The first question to present to you in today's session is
a debate that goes on among us, the followers of Ghamidi Sahab,
they claim that though the thoughts of Ghamidi Sahab
may not be so popular as of now,
it has happened several times in history that
when such new thought emerges, initially they aren't so popular,
however, after a century's gap, after the passing of a hundred years,
then this thought would become popular with the general masses,
like other thoughts had gained popularity.
In reply to this, it was said that this point and this claim is not correct
for the reason that the new`thoughts that had developed in the past
among them two such aspects were common because of which they had become popular,
even though it took some time, the first aspect was that
they had an aspect of the calling towards Allah,
piety, the fear of Allah, the basic constituents or what we may call
the elements of their thought had this as a necessary part.
And the second is that all those thoughts decided to work from
within the tradition, rather than going against the tradition.
Like the thoughts of Shah Waliullah and Ibn-e Taymiyyah,
however, the thoughts of Ghamidi Sahab as compared to these thoughts
are similar to Mua'atizila or Jahmiya
who have based their thoughts on the negation of the tradition.
My question to you is what is your own point of view about your own thoughts,
will it become popular a century later,
if it does not attain popularity now, and the two elements
for the popularity of any thought,
please do tell in the context of the academic tradition of Ummah, is it so?
[Javed Ahmed Ghamidi] There is a lot to say about it.
The first thing is, you said the 'Followers',
I have always given Dawah for people to become believers in Allah,
the Prophets of Allah, the Angels of Allah, the Books of Allah,
and have Iman on the Day of Qiyamah.
So why should people become my followers?
I think the first thing to be reformed should be this.
Whatever scholars are there in the world,
whether they are great or not, their role is that to be a teacher for the people.
None of them have the right to turn people into their 'Followers'.
Their work is to educate people, and since they are not Prophets
so they should put forward their arguments.
It is up to the people whether they would accept them or not.
It is also not necessary that if we agree on one opinion of a person,
then we have to necessarily agree with him on another point.
In this country and in the world of Islam,
1200 to 1500 years have passed, many scholars have taken birth,
we should consider all of them as our own scholars, our elders.
And having a relationship of love and admiration,
we should learn from them.
Hence, according to me, if someone has used the term 'Followers',
according to me, if someone has used it,
then I would like to state with a humble submission that it is not the right use.
The second point is, if some 'Follower' has said this,
now I am saying this in quotation marks,
then why should I be answerable for it?
i.e. people should go and ask them, if they are making such claims.
My perspective in this regard is that I am a student.
Being a student, the Deen is my own issue.
i.e. I have to face my mortality hence, firstly, the decision is to be made by me,
that if my Lord has sent some Guidance for me
then I should understand that Guidance,
then after understanding it I should adopt that in my life.
The point that how the world will judge it,
will approve it or not,
whether it will accept it or reject it?
I am telling the truth to you that
in essence, it does not concern me at all.
If I do this work then I do it as the completion of my duty or my obligation.
When a reality has dawned upon me,
then it is my duty that I present it
to the people in the capacity of a student.
And I tell them what is this reality,
what are the reasons and arguments for it,
if they have an objection to it, then after due investigation,
a reply to that objection will be given.
Neither do I have any more responsibility than this,
nor do I have any interest beyond this point.
Neither I have, to be honest, the time to ponder upon such matter.
What will happen after 100 or 200 years,
this world belongs to that Lord,
He will know what He has to do after 100 years,
and what He has to do today? My issue is with my own self,
I have to eventually go to my grave,
after that what will happen in the world is not my headache.
I have to pass on and be accountable there.
When I have to answer, then, first of all,
I have to ascertain that there be no mistake
with regard to knowledge and deeds of mine.
Being a human being
I do not have any more responsibility than this.
I, in my thought, in my struggles, in my methodology, in my works,
and in my institutions remain limited to this only.
And suggest people remain confined to this much only.
I say this, that it is a responsibility which we are fulfilling.
Allah has said to us to accept My Deen.
And said to us that if we acquire some knowledge
then it should be conveyed to others.
This is a passion, a feeling. The feeling of a responsibility,
and reaching beyond it to have such expectations,
and to sound prophecies, does not go with my taste.
If someone, from among the people who love me, have said such a thing,
then I have the same words of advice that
there isn't any need to say such things.
Whether someone's name will become popular
whose will it be, what will be said about them,
and of which personality,
these decisions are made by the Lord of this world.
We do not need to make such decisions.
The Prophets that had been appointed,
you are aware that there have been many of them,
whose Dawah was not just in their presence,
even after their departure, wasn't accepted by even a handful of people.
Those details are clearly mentioned in the Quran.
Hence, according to me neither is this a standard for the truth and falsehood.
Like which thoughts were accepted, and which didn't get propagated.
In multiple places in the Quran
Allah (swt) warns that
a majority of people have always chosen the wrong path.
Hence why should such things be made a benchmark?
Hence neither do I consider the majority nor the minority as the benchmark.
For me, what matters is whether my heart is satisfied?
Whether my conscience is satisfied?
Or have I, with complete purity of my intentions,
with complete sincerity of the heart, tried to understand the Deen of my Lord?
And whether I have endeavored to put it across completely and faithfully?
This is the point where all my strivings reach their conclusion.
I have never had any further interest in any matter.
Now, the point that remains is, the deen as I have stated it,
and if you wish to understand that Deen in a very simplified form,
and see as to what Dawah is it?
Then I would draw your attention to two points.
Instead of I telling you something from my own,
whether it is a Dawah for Taqwa (Piety),
whether it is the Dawah for humbleness,
whether it is the Dawah of meekness and modesty,
or is this an invitation to bow down before Allah?
You may read the article titled 'Deen-e Haq',
the second chapter of my book Meezan.
And then see what is the Deen that has been stated there?
That is the one which you may see.
The other is, in my book 'Maqamaat',
I have described, "What is our Dawah?"
That too is an article, spanning over just a few pages,
rather, it is only a few paragraphs.
You may read that. After reading it, you may form an opinion yourself,
as to the Dawah that I am presenting
and what is the message that I am presenting to the people.
Since I am doing this work day and night,
people who listen to me also know about me,
my readers know me as well. Hence I do not wish to repeat it again.
So as to say that yes,
I have present to the people the Dawah for piety and humility.
The right-minded people seeing it from the Dawah I have presented
will form an opinion themselves.
[Hassan] Right Ghamidi Sahab, you made the point clear
with absolute sincerity and anguish.
there is another aspect, do please clarify,
I am presenting this point in the capacity of a student of history.
We have in our Ummah a luminous, glittering,
and a living intellectual tradition,
a great many stalwarts, scholars were born, geniuses
great talents and personalities
who have had intellectual contributions.
Rejuvenation of thought has also been done to an some extent,
the difference of opinions also kept coming forth,
however, what is the answer to the question,
I am asking you in the capacity of a student,
what is the reason that a complete consensus of Ahl-e Jama'at Wal Sunnat,
the acceptance was only received by it,
thoughts came and sects were formed,
many great personalities, newer school of thoughts surfaced,
newer opinions, views, movements, however, all of them have disappeared into thin air
and the real point of view that remained was limited to one group,
what is the reason for it?
And is there some cause or some wisdom working behind it?
Then a student is led to believe that
this trend would prevail in the future as well.
So how do you perceive this as well?
[Javed Ahmed Ghamidi] All the sects
or groups that have come into existence till today,
whether they belong to a backdrop of a political nature,
or their backdrop is that of religious thought.
Whether they had raised discussions about theological issues,
or expounded upon the philosophical foundations,
if all of those are reviewed, then for the propagation of some Dawah,
or message or point of view,
the factors that are required in the world,
if all of those are seen, then the group which you have named
have been more conducive to those.
It has no relationship with someone
following the Truth or following falsehood.
i.e. the things which flourish in this world,
... one is, what Allah has decided?
What abilities were given to the people?
Who received the Guidance? That is completely different.
Some political views or some thoughts in the world,
or some religious point of view,
or any religious interpretations of a text
sometimes flourishes immensely. It happens.
So there are some causes for it in the world.
When those factors will more be in favor of someone or something,
that point of view gets propagated.
Actually, this has nothing to do with truth or falsehood.
Let's look a little beyond this. This was among the Muslims.
Among Muslims, the population of the Shias is about 200 million,
i.e. it isn't an ordinary figure, even now if you see in Iran,
they have a Government under their control
and more or less the same situation is in Iraq too.
In the present elections too, we can guess,
that purely on the basis of religion,
the president has gained a great majority.
A good number of them exist in Lebanon as well.
Similarly, we are aware of the rest of the Arabian countries.
In our country too, they have good strength and number,
and according to it, they manage to get their demands met as well.
It is not that the rest are in a very small minority,
they are in tens of millions.
However, the causes which are responsible
for the propagation of a Dawah,
it is not that they aren't existing among others.
They are present among the rest of them as well.
The propagation actually takes place due to those factors.
However, in whose favor and how many of them have come in their support?
This I would humbly submit not to enquire from me,
the reason for it is that several delicate situations arise due to it.
However, for the propagation in the world,
these worldly causes primarily play a key role.
So I said that I am going to take you a little beyond this.
i.e. one level is that after the Prophet (pbuh)
the groups or sects or the different Jamaats which were formed.
What are the causes existing behind them?
Just see, from among the Prophets of Allah,
whose Dawah was propagated the most?
[Hassan] Syedna Isa A.S. [Ghamidi] Syedna Is A.S.
And when did it take place? When Saint Paul gave it a new form.
So I feel that 'Hints are enough for the wise".
[Hassan] The rise of these intellectual movements,
and the factors responsible for their acceptance among the majority,
inshaAllah we shall discuss this further in a complete series.