(stammering) ...uuuhhh, well, uuuh first of aaaaa, uuuuh, aaaah, there's... (Joe Rogan) There's a lot there's a reason why we make the
distinction to have male athletics versus FEMA athletics the reason is that
males have a physiological physiological advantage over women as far as trans
athletes go you know we could have we could sit here and talk for three hours
about like all the different ways that hormones might affect your body might
not affect your body all right we're gonna start with Joe Rogan side of the
argument then it'll go over to Adam Conover but before we do I want to know
what do you think about this specific topic let me know in the comments below
do you think that people who change their sex should be able to compete with
their newly identified sex in sports so for instance if a guy does whatever you
have to do to be considered transitioned to a girl should they then be able to
fight women in MMA before we starting listen to what Joe's cited says I want
to let you know this is one of the most ridiculous debates if you'd even call it
that that I've ever broken down one person uses facts to argue their side
and the other person just uses pure idealism and the way that he kind of
wishes it could be and that's all I'll say I'll let you decide who's who so
here's Rogen's thoughts my point of view is that there's a reason there's a
distinction there's a reason why we make the distinction to have male athletics
versus fimA athletics the reason is that males have a physiological physiological
advantage over women so in most sports most physical sports we do not have
males compete with females the question becomes when someone who is male
transitions and becomes female do those same physiological advantages apply and
what what are they what is the evidence well the evidence and competition seems
to be that it shows that it does apply particularly in weightlifting rugby
mountain biking power heavy sports that are that favored larger people stronger
bodies males that transition to females have a significant advantage and they're
breaking world so before we get too deep in this I do want to point out that this
video is to focus on the social interaction between these two I don't
want you get too hung up on your views on which side is right or wrong there's
a lot of different videos and that I'm interested in the social
interaction so you can learn from what these guys are doing right or wrong and
use it in your own life so if you're a woman and you're a natural woman and you
don't take any extra hormones or male hormones you're not taking steroids or
any sort of performance-enhancing drugs you're doing your very best to compete
and you're at the top of the heap but then someone comes along that was a man
for 30 years and decides they're going to be a woman and this has happened and
literally transitioned a few months ago and competes as a woman and destroys
records and dominates you in that sport that's bullshit and that's not competing
on a level playing field and the thing about this you'll notice is Rogan
usually is so calm in his discussion a lot of people always think oh it looks
like he's high but in this you can see he's really trying to keep cool cuz it's
such a hot-button issue for him because he announces a lot of the MMA and UFC
fights and he saw this happen when a man who had transitioned to be a woman
fought in the woman's category and just dominated the person I mean it was
basically looked just like a guy fighting a woman and he doesn't want
that right he cares about the sport he wants it to be a good fair fight so he's
clearly passionate about this so it's interesting to see a guy like Rogan
who's usually so calm and cool the point that people think he's high get really
worked up and try to restrain himself that's a person who's biologically a
male and who was a male for 30 plus years of having testosterone run through
their body and affect their tendon strength and affect the shape of their
bones and the mechanical advantages of the male hips versus the female hips and
then they're competing with smaller people who have been a woman their whole
life it's not fair it's it's as much cheating as taking steroids when the
other person doesn't or taking performance-enhancing drugs when the
other person doesn't maybe even more so maybe even more so because you also have
there's a bunch of advantages in terms of reaction time that males enjoy it's
like it's some significant difference in reaction time between males and even
untrained males versus female professional athletes well I disagree
and I what do you disagree about I've seen now that's that's that's Rogan's
strength there he says I disagree and so Rogan knows he's pulled from thaw
it's an actual experience of things has happened so we asked for clarity well
what do you disagree on there's nothing you can really disagree on unless you're
not going to use facts to disagree so let's see if Adam does use facts there's
no way he can't so let's see what he said I've already
well the my main point being the one that I already made right that like I
don't think that there is such a thing as a perfectly level playing field I
think we decide what kind of playing field we want to have sure we do make
the distinction where we don't allow men to compete in women's division and I
think that that distinction may be breaking down a bit right and I think it
may be time to break down so the distinction of men and women is breaking
down is what he said distinction so you think that males should be able to
compete in the women's division of weightlifting no I don't necessarily but
I can if they transition well first of all the there's there's a do you know
this you know this is he stuttering this reminds me we broke down that the Dorsey
the Twitter and his attorney when people don't have a good answer and they're
buying time you notice the stutter so I mean listen to him trying to come up
with an idea here well first of all the there's there's a lot of stuff to break
down right and I'm not an expert on the subject and also another thing how many
times has he said oh I'm not an expert on this I don't really know how hormones
work I don't really know about it but it's the way I'd like it it's the it's
the sport that I would like to watch so listen to this thing right here and I'm
not an expert on that and I don't want to claim to be right but a sports with
trans athletes who are you know competing with the you know with their
gender right that's that is a sporting world that I'm more interested in right
and I think we should find a way to make that have this is this is really the
most ridiculous line of the whole debate is he basically says he thinks that
people who transition should be able to compete in it because that's the world
of sports that he's more interested in watching so we should work towards that
that's that is a sporting world that I'm more interested in right and I think we
should find a way to make that that's his argument can you imagine like
I think it bothers me about this is this guy has a big show and people have
platforms have influence just because they have ears and it shapes people's
perspective on things so when you have people who admittedly know nothing about
this he said so many times this interview he doesn't know anything about
this but because he wishes that's the way it should be
he's trying to tell people that's the way it should be even though there's no
fact behind it that's like all of a sudden the president saying oh do I wish
that everyone every day of the year could go to Disneyland for free just
that's the world that I'd like to live in well great but that's irresponsible
to use a platform to try to convince people that's the way something should
be when it's completely not based on fact right what Disney would go under in
a month if that was the case but it's the way I'd like it to be I just feel
like this is I don't know anything about this guy I've actually never seen a show
I've seen his face on billboards and stuff when I was in LA before but I just
think that's a completely irresponsible thing to do and from a social
perspective what we've seen in this is Joe Rogan just dominates the whole thing
why because he's using fact and experience art versus a guy who's just
using the way he wants it to be so it's impossible to debate against someone who
knows anything about debate when one person uses fact and the other person
uses fear right so it's just sort of my off the top of my head one thing is you
know your postulating a particular person who decided to transition at the
age of 30 right and they were very big and strong before right and they decide
to transition now that is a type of person that exists right I think over
the next certainly 30 years we're gonna see you know now that people are
starting to understand that being trans is just a way that people are right
they're just people who are trans you know and this is something that we're
gonna accept and support right you're seeing folks transition much much
earlier age you know there's so but then and and so so there's roken but he never
talks over people either but he has so many thoughts on this and he probably
has good valid points to bring up that he even has to cut himself off of this
is it you don't see that offered with him you know I have a friend who has a
who has a trans kid no no the kids attacked age but you know
in the age range that we're talking about and you know he's explained that
like well you know my child from a very young age consistently like said I am a
girl like and has never contradict themselves never changed their mind and
so the humane thing and the thing that he felt was going to do as a parent was
to like embrace that choice on his child's part right and yeah that's the
embrace of choice meaning hormone Willy I shouldn't even phrase it as a choice
like like embrace that identity but it is a choice right I mean if I'm choosing
to add hormones to a child's body that's a choice it's it's the it's a choice on
the point on the part of the parent it's not a choice in the on the on the part
of the child to like in the way that being is they were they being gay isn't
a choice yeah so now he's just drawing a correlation between that don't make
sense he's saying the kid doesn't have a choice in being gay therefore they don't
have a choice if they start taking hormones to support the sex that they
feel like they are let's not even know how you come back with an argument from
I just doesn't even make sense but if that's who they are if they think that
they're a girl why do you have to give them hormones to make them more of a
girl because I'm sorry can you actually just watching this now can you explain
the question how hard is that to understand Rogan says if there's someone
who thinks they feel like a girl why do they have to have more hormones to feel
a girl and what is he doing what is it's classic just buying time can you explain
the question of the funny thing is usually when people use that tactic
they're asking for more clarity on a question that's a little more
complicated but this question is as straightforward as it gets simple
question if you say that the child thinks it's a girl so you're going to
give the child hormones mm-hmm if the child thinks it's a girl let it be a
girl like you don't have why you adding hormones if you're shooting hormones
into a child and you're affecting the child's development you're saying that's
not a choice that's nonsense of course it's a choice you're choosing to
chemically change this child's body do gender confirmation via hormones and
know that that doesn't affect this ah great the suicide rate for trans
people is very high post-op and pre-op really doesn't get affected by whether
or not you treat them well the operation you know one of the questions can be why
is that it's that because they're not accepted by society and we're not more
loving could it be underlying issues that are causing them to feel this way
in the first place like what is it we don't know and I'm sure it varies widely
look so all I can do is defer to the experts that that I know about this
right so another example of him saying I don't know much about it I'm deferring
to other people which is fine it's good to defer to experts but let's hear what
these experts say you know for instance there's an author named Brin Tannehill
who's a former former military helicopter pilot I just interviewed her
for my new podcast that's coming out soon called
actually I'm doing it on Earwolf and it's like a long-form interview podcast
and so she's one of the people who's affected by the Trump military ban on
trans service people you know that's why because she's trans because she's trans
yeah so basically I don't even know what he said that expert said he said I have
to defer to the experts and one expert I defer to is this person and here's their
story but it doesn't even talk to the point about suicide rate my concern is
not with young adults deciding to take steps to confirm their gender identity
who they feel they really are I'm all for you doing whatever you want to do
when you're an adult when your mind is formed but people change their mind they
change their opinion they change their thoughts there's nothing wrong with just
decide to be a gay man there's nothing wrong with your body you know as you
grow and mature and develop you growing out of these ideas some will in some
world now one of the things that point out here is both of them are doing a
good job not getting nasty with the other person because if one person got
super defensive like the atom guy is a little more defensive but he's still
keeping somewhat jovial friendly I guess like he just said he has a podcast here
show so he's good at this and you can tell people to have experienced things
like this what do they all do they strive to keep it friendly and social
and they don't get angry so I'll point out that both of them are doing a good
job the other thing I was gonna say is that
I do know also among the trans folks that I know are the trans people who
speak about this I've heard so many of them say I wish I
had access I knew this about myself at a very young
age and I wish to God that I had that we had I had had the ability to receive you
know these hormones at a young age my life would be so much better and so one
of the things you notice here is the argument that's really the best argument
that he's made so far he's actually referring to people who are looking back
and saying I wish it this but that's not at all what this initial question was it
was should trans people be able to compete with their new sex and so now
he's back pedaled all the way to well yeah it would be nice if people who
wanted to transition could do it younger I don't really have many thoughts on
that but I do think it's a totally different question than what was posed
before so that's typically what people do when they can't justify or come up
with a good answer for their original point they back off the topic until they
found the lowest common denominator that they actually do feel confident in
defending which in this case is this specific topic I'm not gonna argue with
those folks you know I wouldn't argue with these folks either but you have to
address the fact that there are people that have gone through transition
surgery and said I wish to God that I never did this I do think that when
we're talking about an issue that affects those people right the first
thing we should do is listen to those people right through the children listen
to the children and listen to the adults right who said I used to be that child
okay you know but they are not that child and you know - you said look
everyone's different so for them to say I was that child
that's nonsense Romy's getting heated up here and if you noticed this entire
interview rogon hasn't not only laughed but he hasn't smiled once this is
clearly such a hot-button issue from and i want to remind you this video is not
to pick sides on this debate right it's interesting in the comments to talk
about that but this comment is to break down socially what's going on between
them so you can understand what's going on so when you find yourself in a debate
like this a hot intense debate you can go over some of the things you said hey
keep cool keep jovial be nice and evey easin now even now one thing I think
Rogen could do he's usually very good at this but he should realize that he's
really worked up in stress and try to throw in a
and a smile every now and then because the Adam guy is and I think that would
kind of lighten the load just to show that he's not trying to be the guy like
you're wrong this this this and this that's one thing that I would suggest
sure but we're not we don't have either of those folks in the room right you
know we have to acknowledge it they're real as well yeah I don't I'm not I'm
not dismissing that those people are real right but when we say if you talk
to trans folks you get this impression that's not necessarily true yeah what a
wide range of impression Rogen's not letting him slide with that comment I
wasn't just I wasn't talking about specifically the impression that it I
wasn't saying we should reason from anecdotal evidence right I'm saying that
right now this guy wishes any resolver and Rogin even though he's being kind of
tough on him by holding his feet to the fire and not letting questions slide
that this guy doesn't have answers to he's still being civil what if Rogan
said listen dude you clearly have no idea what you're talking about why don't
you just get your pudgy belly out of here what would he say that that's
something that's totally different right being able to reply to somebody who
makes fun of you or talks down to you is a different skill it's not necessary in
dealing with a guy like Rogan but let me ask you maybe at the workplace or maybe
your friends people kind of talk down to you or they make fun of you or they just
kind of slight you to kind of reduce your social status and boost their
social status it doesn't look good it doesn't feel good when you know that you
don't have anything to say when someone says that you can kind of lower your
competence this video isn't about that but if you want to watch a video where I
talk to you about exactly what you can do to have a sharp and witty comeback
when people come down on you you can click right here and watch it now
and if you haven't seen that video of Rogan going after Twitter and their
attorney that's a really good one too you can click here to watch the video
about quick and witty comebacks or click here and watch the Rogen Twitter video
I'll talk to you there