SECURITY COUNCIL, AT THE WHITE HOUSE TODAY.
WE ARE JOINED BY FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY MARK ESPER, WHO WAS
WATCHING THIS UNFOLD OVER THE WEEKEND IN RUSSIA.
JUST LIKE ALL OF US. WELCOME BACK.
I'M CURIOUS YOUR THOUGHTS KNOW THAT WE HEARD FROM PUTIN,
EXACTLY WHAT HIS STATION INSIDE THE KREMLIN IS, THE WEAKNESSES
THAT MAY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED KNOWING NO ONE WAS COMING TO
HIS DEFENSE FOR A NUMBER OF HOURS AS MR. PRIGOZHIN MADE HIS
WAY TO MOSCOW.
>> IT HAS BEEN A TUMULTUOUS AND SURPRISING 48 HOURS.
WHO WOULD THINK WE WOULD HAVE SEEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPEN?
BUT IT DID. TODAY, WE SEE PUTIN TRYING TO
SHORE UP SUPPORT. WE TALKED ABOUT HIS BASE OF
POWER BEGINNING WITH THE OLIGARCHS AND SECURITY SERVICES
AND THE RUSSIAN ARMY. HE HAS TRYING TO MAKE SURE THEY
REMAIN LOYAL BECAUSE NOBODY CAME OUT OVER THE PAST 48 HOURS
WHEN PRIGOZHIN WAS TALKING AND MOVING TO SUPPORT PUTIN AND
THAT HAD TO SEND A CHILLING MESSAGE TO PUTIN ABOUT HIS
SUPPORT IN THE COUNTRY.
>> PRIGOZHIN HAS BEEN CRITICAL FOR WEEKS AND MONTHS AND NO ONE
WAS SUPPORTING HIM EITHER, OR DEFENDING PUTIN.
PUTIN WAS AWARE HE WAS GETTING FRUSTRATED WITH THE SUPPORT HE
WAS GETTING AND HOW HE WAS BEING A NORD -- IGNORED.
WHY DID HE WAIT FOR THE LAST MOMENT TO THIS COMING TO A
BRINK, PRIGOZHIN HOURS OUTSIDE OF MOSCOW, TO CUT A DEAL?
>> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, FOR MONTHS HE COMPLAINED PUBLICLY
ABOUT THE DEFENSE MINISTER, THE CHIEF OF STAFF, ABOUT
INADEQUATE SUPPORT FOR WAGNER, WHETHER IT WAS AMMUNITION OR
ASSISTANCE. HE COMPLAINED ON AND ON.
NONE OF THESE MEN LIKE EACH OTHER SO THERE IS THAT DYNAMIC.
PUTIN ALLOWED THAT AND I DON'T KNOW WHY HE TOLERATED THAT, TO
HAVE THAT GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIGHT.
WE SAW THIS A FEW WEEKS AGO, IF YOU RECALL, WHEN WAGNER PULLED
BACK FROM BUCK MOOD. HE HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A
BRIGADE ON THE GROUND CHARGED WITH LAYING MINES IN HIS PATH.
FRIDAY HE ALLEGED THE RUSSIAN MILITARY STRUCK HIS MEN.
I THINK THAT SET HIM OFF. HE PLANNED OF MARCH TO DEMAND
THE OFFICIALS MEET WITH HIM. ALONG THE WAY HE REALIZED
NOBODY ELSE IN THE RUSSIAN MILITARY WAS STANDING WITH HIM,
CERTAINLY NOT IN THE KREMLIN AND I THINK HE HAD TO QUICKLY
FIND AN OFFRAMP AND THAT BECAME BELARUS AND LUKASHENKO.
>> BRING US TO UKRAINE.
TO WHAT EXTENT IS THE PENTAGON WORKING WITH PRESIDENT
ZELENSKYY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SITUATION?
>> THE BEST THING TO DO RIGHT NOW IS FRANKLY NOTHING.
I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO GIVE THE KREMLIN AND PUTIN ANY
REASON TO SAY THIS IS ENGINEERED BY THE UNITED STATES
OR THE WEST OR NATO. YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT
DOING SOMETHING THAT UNIFIES THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE AROUND PUTIN
WHEN HE IS UNSTABLE.
I WOULD BE CAREFUL ABOUT THE NEXT MOVES.
CLEARLY THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY IS IN A POSITION, READY TO
STRIKE AT SOME POINT USING THE FULL WEIGHT OF THEIR NINE U.S.
TRAINED AND EQUIPPED BRIGADES. SEEMS LIKE THE MIXED RESULTS ON
THE BATTLEFIELD IS FILLING UP THE RUSSIAN -- FEELING OUT THE
RUSSIAN FRONT LINES. THE TIMING IS AFFECTED MORE SO
THAN THE PLACE OF ATTACK.
>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FRONT LINES, WAGNER IS BEING
DISSOLVED. PUTIN SAID THOSE SOLDIERS COULD
EITHER GO HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES OR JOIN THE RUSSIAN
MILITARY. THAT LEAVES THE QUESTION WHAT
HAPPENS WITH THE LEADERSHIP OF THE RUSSIAN MILITARY?
SHAW GROUP -- ONE OFFICIALS SHOWED HIS FACE TODAY.
WILL THEY BE ASKED TO STEP DOWN OR FIRE?
>> YOU WOULD THINK PUTIN WOULD MAKE A CHANGE AFTER THE FAILED
COUNTEROFFENSIVE IN EARLY DECEMBER, WHEN THE RUSSIANS
WERE SUPPOSEDLY ON THE MOVE AND COULDN'T GAIN GROUND.
THAT IS WHEN IT WAS HANDED OFF TO WAGNER TO TAKE BUCK MOOD.
I'M NOT SURE HE CAN AFFORD TO TAKE CHANGES.
IT LOOKS LIKE HE IS YIELDING TO PRIGOZHIN'S CLAIMS. WHAT
HAPPENS IN UKRAINE, THAT IS ONE THING.
THE DISSOLUTION OF WAGNER, IF THAT OCCURS, IT WILL HAVE
RAMIFICATIONS BEYOND UKRAINE
BECAUSE WAGNER IS INSTRUMENTAL IN SYRIA, LIBYA AND OTHER
PLACES IN AFRICA WHERE THEY ARE AN EXTENSION OF RUSSIAN FOREIGN
POLICY. THIS WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON
THOSE PARTS OF THE WORLD.
>> NO ONE KNOWS WHERE PRIGOZHIN IS RIGHT NOW.
I SPOKE TODAY WITH A FORMER U.S. DIPLOMAT ON BLOOMBERG RADIO WHO
REFERRED TO HIM AS A MARKED MAN, SUGGESTING HE MAY NOT BE
ON THIS EARTH MUCH LONGER.
PUTIN IF I WERE -- >> IF I WERE HIM I WOULD STAY AWAY FROM
HIGH-RISE BUILDINGS. HE IS A BILLIONAIRE AND HAS THE
MEANS TO FIND REFUGE. HE IS A MARKED MAN.
PUTIN CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE HIM OR OTHERS, MAY BE SENIOR WAGNER
SANDERS, WHO ARE WILLING TO MOVE AGAINST HIM.
OVER TIME YOU WILL SEE THESE PLAYERS TAKEN OFF THE
BATTLEFIELD IN ONE WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.
>> IF PRIGOZHIN IS PUSHED TO THE SIDE, POTENTIALLY HE IS IN
BELARUS, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE WORK HE HAS DONE FOR PUTIN IN
AFRICA? IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THE KREMLIN
TO MAKE INROADS.
>> PRIGOZHIN WAS A CHARISMATIC LEADER.
IT IS HARD TO SEE WHO COULD REPLACE HIM.
DOES PUTIN WANT WAGNER OUT THERE IN ORGANIZED UNITS
CAPABLE OF RETURNING TO RUSSIA? I DON’'T THINK HE DOES.
BUT WHO KNOWS? MAYBE HE FINDS A WAY TO
TRANSFORM THEM. IF NOT, IF HE HAS TO DISSOLVE
WAGNER, THAT WILL IMPACT HIS INFLUENCE IN AFRICA, THE MIDDLE
EAST AND OTHER PLACES.
PRIGOZHIN MADE, AND WAGNER MADE A GOOD DEAL OF WEALTH OF THESE
PLACES WHERE THEY WOULD PROVIDE SECURITY IN EXCHANGE FOR
MINERAL RESOURCES AND OTHER TYPES OF PAYMENTS.
IT IS ONE BIG BRACKET, LIKE A BIG GANG, MAFIA.
IT WILL BE CURIOUS TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT.
>> CERTAINLY.