Hello and welcome to Stumped. Your intercontinental hit of news features and debate from the quirky world of cricket.
I'm Alison Mitchell in London and for the first and hopefully last time, I’ve found myself preparing for this programme
sitting in the Accident and Emergency unit at my local hospital. I took a bit of a tumble off a horse at the weekend
so some sore ribs and with a history of a lung collapse a few years ago, I thought best not to take any chances.
Anyway, I was seen no major damage, all good. Just a bit sore - have to ride it out. Excuse the pun! Anyway, very glad to see
Jim’s smiling face and you managed to come back from the French vineyards, Jim. You've prised yourself away after what I'm
sure has been a lovely few weeks.
It has been excellent. There was a little bubbly stuff going around, thank you, Ali. I'm back home
in Sydney now, but the main purpose, shall I say, of the visit was to tour the battlefields of World War One and World War Two
with a couple of very good guides. It was fascinating and quite sobering actually to think back on how all those people lost their
lives, so tragically. So we had ten days of that in Belgium and Normandy. D Day in particular, just a fascinating examination
of all that and the amount of planning that went into it all and how the engineering was quite remarkable to do it.
And then we chilled out for ten days down in the south of France, which was comfortable, you’d have to say. I'm back
and I think most of my brain is still working despite all the bubbles that have been saved up! Nice to see you all!
Bienvenue!
And you Sunil as well.
Welcome back! Bienvenue!
Hi there, I’m Sunil Gupta for All India Radio here in New Delhi and I have been to some of the places that you mentioned Jim
Many, many, many years ago. I remember Waterloo, especially. That was very - you go back in history and you remember all that
sort of thing. But right now in India, it's sports, it's cricket actually, that's grabbing the headlines. The IPL of course is in
full flow and quite frankly, you have, I mean I have not been able to keep track of who's doing what to who and when because
every day is a new game and it's all happening so quick. But I think the big news right now is the WPC final team that's been
selected just a couple of days ago. And of course, there are a couple of surprises or non-surprises as the case may be.
So we shall see, and of course we will be talking about that later on in this programme.
Keep your powder dry for the moment! Good to have you with us Sunil.
Absolutely!
And great to see you Jim, too. Now we're going to start by talking about Ireland because it has been a bit of a rollercoaster
ride for the Ireland men's team since they gained Test status back in 2017. For smaller nations, Test status is the Holy Grail.
But when you reach that pinnacle, it can sometimes be a bit of a rough ride once you get there. Now, Ireland went into
their second Test in Galle this week, having lost all five Tests played in their short history so far. The most recent being the
first test when Sri Lanka recorded their biggest ever Test win - a thumping victory by an innings and 280 runs inside three days.
Well the second Test has produced a glut of runs on both sides and it's turned out to be an historic one for Ireland who posted
their highest ever Test total to date of 492 with Paul Stirling and Curtis Campher becoming just the third and fourth Irishmen
to hit centuries in the game's longest format. Before we got going on the programme today, before Jim had swung his way
back in from France. So, I spoke to Ireland men's head coach, South African born head coach Heinrich Malan,
who first of all explained to us why he wasn't with the team in Galle.
Look, we've got a pinnacle event coming up next week against Bangladesh in the World Super League, so getting ourselves
prepared for that and look, it's an exciting time, all around the world of cricket at the moment with people moving into different
roles and we’re know different, hopefully, playing a lot of cricket this summer.
I'm interested in unpacking what challenges in particular, a new Test team faces, since you got that Test status and in particular
as a coach what challenges you face compared to a coach of say a more established, Test country.
Well our biggest challenge is that our lads, haven’t played any first class cricket for three years domestically. I mean, that puts
a whole new spin on things when you think there has been such a huge focus on the white ball side of things. And Ireland have
over a period of time that in white ball cricket we compete and we have an understanding of how we want to go about our
business. That’s been first and foremost the hardest challenge, telling people to not just hit every ball for six, but actually bat for
six hours. So that’s been a fun part of the challenge. But again, the players have shown that they are adaptable, they are
versatile, they can play what's in front of them. Hopefully with a bit more experience that we will gain over the next couple of
years in Test cricket and reintroducing our first class system, that gap will become smaller and hopefully as Bangladesh
or Sri Lanka have shown over periods of time they get better at playing Test cricket and we will get better results on the board.
How will it unfold in terms of that first class system and I’m guessing, how long to make it feel like it's truly established, that
it's feeding a pipeline. And also the players, do you get a sense players want to succeed in a Test arena for Ireland, given all the
offers around the world and growing T20 leagues.
Yeah, very much so. And I got this question asked the other day. I think the biggest compliment we can have is when people like
Lorcan Tucker or Harry Tector or Josh Little who’s even at the IPL, tells you that they want to play Test cricket. That’s still the
biggest carrot. All these lads want to play Test cricket. They want to get tested at the purest form of the game. And look,
it be a re-introductory phase from a domestic point of view. From next year hopefully through the ICC funding we’ll get that
elevate and budget piece and then it's about making sure we get our domestic system up and running fully. That's going to take a
little bit of time as well. The added money is not going to magically put the whole structure in place. So there's still
a lot of hard work in that space. But look, it's an exciting opportunity for us to start something and plant some seeds and
hopefully those trees grow and leave some shadows for a long period of time.
Heinrich, this is Sunil. You talked about a challenge and there's a challenge coming up in the first week of June against England.
And England of course have completely and revolutionised their game. It's a different England that was there last year and
coming up this year from what we've seen before. And this whole buss or obsession with Bazball. How do you hope
not just to cope with that, but learn from that?
Yeah, look that will be a total different challenge again in the red ball space won't it. We would've played three Tests now, all in the
sub- continent. Again, we would have no first class cricket leading into that Test. Luckily, we've got a first class fixture
scheduled against Essex as a warm-up. It's going to be a totally different challenge, obviously, in different conditions. Hopefully,
with the conditions suited to home conditions a little bit more, we will be able to adapt and hopefully as we go over the next
little period, some of our injured players especially from a bowling point of view is on the return to play plan and hopefully
we're going to have a full quota to pick from and very much looking forward to the second test at Lord's.
Heinrich, what about the finances of the game and the ability or the desire for Ireland to be hosting as much Test cricket as
you're playing away. Is that going to be feasible in the future in the longer term?
Luckily, I'm the coach and not the finance director! I guess that’s one of our biggest challenges isn’t it? And it’s correlated to what
I said earlier on the ICC funding and what that model looks like moving forward. Hopefully we get into a space where I think
the understanding is out there that it’s quite expensive hosting a Test Match and realistically all our players want to play at home.
They want to play in front of family and friends and the venues that they are comfortable with. Hopefully, moving forward, that
model can change and we can have a lot of domestic first class cricket which then leads to us having some home Tests as well.
Do you feel as well that the Ireland team is getting kind of wider cut-through across Ireland as well, in terms of that support base?
You mentioned family and friends and I remember back in the 2007 World Cup, Ireland there having that loyal band of tight
followers. But that support is already broader now, how do you feel it's cutting through?
I guess it will become bigger and bigger, the more exposure we get, the more top tier teams we've played. I feel like over the last
12 months we've played some big hitters. South Africa, Australia, England, New Zealand we hosted them here last year
India last year. It's a tough learning curve in the deep end when you play those big teams the whole time, but at the same time,
we've shown that we can compete. It’s generated a lot of interest here around the island and the more we can get the
exposure to play those top tier teams, the better we'll get over a shorter period of time.
Well good luck for the coming weeks, and in particular I’ll look forward to seeing you over here at Lord's. And thank you so
much for being with us on stumped.
Thanks very much Heinrich, thanks.
Thanks for having me guys, look forward to catching up in the summer.
Next on stumped, it’s all change in the coaching set up for Pakistan with a number of new international appointments,
including former coach Mickey Arthur back as team director. He was coach between 2016 and 2019, but this is now a unique
set-up for Arthur because he is currently coach of Derbyshire in the County Championship in England, yet also now performing
the Pakistan role. So Jim, Sunil, it’s a bit of an intriguing one this one as to how it will work, how successful it may be having dual roles.
I don't know whether you can think of a similar scenario in international cricket. I mean, we see coaches sharing roles,
we've just seen Heinrich Malan not being with his team, handing duties over to another coach. That happens a bit already, but
this is kind of different, isn't it, having a role split across an international team and a domestic team in another country. How
do you think it is going to work, Jim? What's your take?
My take is that Pakistan cricket is always the same. It's always going through these gyrations of politics and personalities.
Someone comes in and does the job for a while, someone doesn’t like him, a new President comes on board, they kick the
bloke out like Ramiz Raja, they kicked him out recently. So who would know? I won’t say moving the deckchairs because
Pakistan are actually playing some good cricket and that’s just going on in the background. I’ve got no idea how this is all going
to work out, and hopefully the players adjust and perform in the way that they have been doing a lot of the time recently.
Sunil, does the team director need to be with the team in the country full time?
What exactly is team director? What exactly is coach and what exactly is many other cycles that you have? It sounds like a
corporate boardroom where somebody is a Senior Vice President of something something something. I think that there
many, many more people that countries like Pakistan should be looking at. New coaches, they’ve already been through
Mickey Arthur, so many teams have been through Mickey Arthur. It’s nothing against him, it’s just the concept of having this dual
role because obviously it’s just common sense. You cannot have somebody who's going to be a team director of an international
Test playing nation who and also then be away for some time coaching Derbyshire. I have absolutely no idea what the logic is,
you know what it means, Raja has been scathing about it. I mean I won’t even say the words that he’s been saying in the
media but he has been, I mean scathing is an understatement with what he’s been saying. In a sense I agree with him.
Because, why him? Is it something he knows about somebody else? Because if you remember his background with Pakistan,
he was the coach in 2017 when they won the Champions Trophy in England and beat India. Sad, I was there. I don't want to talk
about it, but they thumped India in that particular game and I thought that could put them in good stead going forward and a
couple of years later he’s sacked. And off he goes to Sri Lanka or wherever. I think this merry-go-round of the same guys, that
needs to change. Whether it’s Pakistan or anybody else. I think you need some fresh ideas, some fresh blood.
I’d say one thing about Mickey is that you can’t question his passion and dedication and I’m sure he’ll be as committed as
possible to both roles without wanting to short change either. And I suppose that the PCB will be hoping that it doesn’t get
short changed. I do know he had a genuine affection for the Pakistan players that kind of almost grew up underneath him.
Some of them were very young when he took over in 2016 and he’s seen someone like Babar Azam, as he would say, grow from
a boy to a man through being under Mickey's tenure-ship in that regard. So there's certainly a real kind of commitment on a
personal level to that group of players. I think it would be really intriguing to see how it balances out, juggling two roles like that.
Finally, on Stumped. It's been 16 months since Ajinkya Rahane last played Test cricket for India, but he has been called up to the
15-man squad to face Australia in the World Test Championship Final in June. Now, Rahane made his Test debut back in 2013
and memorably captained India to the historic series win over Australia in 2021 in the absence of Virat Kohli, you’ll remember.
But he has not played a test since January last year. Now it’s Rahane’s form in the Indian Premier League, that has really
impressed the selectors. He has averaged more than fifty and if you saw any of Chennai Super Kings against
Kolkata Knight Riders, this week, he was the match winner with an unbeaten 71 in front of 60,000 at Eden Gardens. And Sunil,
it’s his strike rate at the IPL, isn’t it that has been extraordinary. 199 compared to his usual T20 of 121. But first, has his call-up
attracted a lot of attention in India? Are fans please to see him back?
Yes. Attention, definitely. But I’ll just take you back to one game, which was actually the World Test Championship Final last year
against New Zealand. I was watching, I was in fact calling that game for radio and I was appalled actually to see the way that
he had managed to get himself out, despite the fact that things have been said precisely that have shot up. I think that he had
lost his confidence a little bit at that particular point of time. But the way he’s playing – I’m not talking about the runs or the strike
rate. I think the freedom with which he is playing, the timing which he is hitting his shots. I think that is what has attracted
the selectors to call him back into the Indian team. So I think, yes, it's not really a retrograde step, but as we all said, this is just
one game. What's going to happen later? That rebuilding of the Indian team hasn't taken place as yet and I think sooner rather
than later certainly by the end of this year, has got to rethink this entire team selection.
It’ll be intriguing to see. What about the Aussies, Jim? Because they named their squad and David Warner is included, despite
poor form over a period of time, although he rescued his season, didn’t he, at the Sydney Cricket Ground with a huge score at the
end of the Aussie summer. How have you reflected on the squad that was announced and the subsequent commentary on it?
Well, Warner has actually made a few runs in the IPL so he’s perhaps getting some twilight form because I definitely think
this is a valedictory tour for him unless he scores hundreds all over the place. And who knows? He may be one of the most
successful batsmen in this Australian team if they get the right conditions with sunny weather and firm pitches, which is what
Ben Stokes has asked for. If the groundmen are listening, do they listen to coaches and captains? I think they do in some
places. We’ll see what happens with that. I think that Warner could be a very key member of this side. The person or persons
who are unlucky not to be in that squad, and remember they can change this squad after the Lord’s Test. And these guys Neser
and Bancroft are playing county cricket, so I suppose if their performances are warranted, they could be included.
The problem with these tours now is that they don’t playing any cricket other than the main games. I mean, this must be the first
Ashes tour Australia has ever had where there’s not one game, not even between the third and fourth tests. So they're going
to be spending a bit of time looking at the blokes in their nets aren’t they, to see how they’re going. Look, it’s a strong Australian
team, people also forget that they are ranked number one in the world, for goodness sake, so someone must think they can play
a bit of cricket.
And bowling, of course, is going to be important in the Ashes. Ben Stokes requesting, saying that he would want eight fit
bowlers to choose from and given that relentless nature of it and no rest period, no warm up game, where a couple of
bowlers could sit out, could it just be the battle of the fittest across these five Test matches as well? So we will see. Well,
that is it for this week's Stumped. Great to have you back with us, Jim. Vive la France! And Sunil, thank you also.
And to all of you for listening, of course. And we'll see you again next week. Bye for now.