-You've been here a bunch, but it's been a very long gap.
You were last here for the finale of
"Parks and Recreation." -That's right.
And then that's when our feud started.
-That's when our feud started.
-And I'm glad we made up. It's good to be back.
-We finally made up.
We always said that if a pandemic hit,
we would put our differences aside.
-Mm-hmm.
-So, I've known you --
-I received your owl. -You received --
I'm so glad because you train an owl,
you train an owl, you train an owl,
and then the time comes that you actually have to send him out
with a message wrapped to his leg,
and you just hope he gets there.
-Your summons was successful. -Well, I'm glad you're here.
You know, I know you -- We were talking backstage.
A lot of times, people will almost confuse you
with Ron Swanson because you are in life a very crafty gentleman.
You are a woodworker by trade. -Yeah.
-I remember when I first met you,
you were in Red Hook, Brooklyn, making a canoe.
-That's right. -This is a real thing.
So it made sense.
In this show, you play a quantum-computing expert.
-That's right.
-That have any of the same overlap for you?
-I have not -- You know, I was down at the RadioShack,
and, uh...
No, no one has accused me of --
No one has confused me with a genius as yet.
-Very believable genius in the show.
-Thank you. I'm classically trained.
Alex Garland, our writer/director...
-Who's a genius. -...is just astonishing.
-His -- I mean, he wrote a great character.
And, so, the trick to playing --
You know, like, if I was cast as a NBA player,
the trick is not to try and look good dribbling.
It's just to be cool.
And people are like,
"Oh, clearly, he can make a free throw.
I mean, look how cool he is." -Right. So that's the go-to.
-Your go-to move is finding
an inherent coolness to the character.
-That's Acting 101. -This is a lot of --
Asks a lot of questions about how technology
affects our lives, how it affects our free will.
Are these questions that you've found that you have ever asked
yourselves before taking on this role?
-Uh, no. I hate technology.
-Yeah. -I hate it.
I grew up in a farming family. My life is very tangible.
I like to read physical books. I don't like e-books.
I'm reluctantly competent
when it comes to using screens, you know?
But I have a system where I --
I'm like, "Okay, I've got to check these five places.
All right. Nobody needs me. Get that thing out of here.
Now let me get back to this sandwich."
[ Laughter ] -We were both in Chicago.
I feel like I was maybe a tick after you,
maybe a half-generation after you in Chicago.
You had a theater company. -Mm-hmm.
-Defiant Theatre company. -That's right.
-What were the sort of shows you guys were doing in Chicago
back in the '90s?
-Defiant was formed by a group of friends
that attended the University of Illinois
down in Champaign-Urbana.
And among other things,
it's a great program for theater,
but there was this special sensei,
a man named Shozo Sato, who was our true sensei.
He taught us Kabuki theater,
which is this amazing Japanese presentational theater style.
And so we would do these shows
that were like a Tex Avery cartoon, with, like, samurais.
Part of it was probably 'cause we weren't great at acting.
But I was like, "I can do a flip and crash through a wall.
All right. We can use that. Let's build from it.
Let's turn that into a story."
But it was really fun.
I mean, we had a great following.
And we did do good plays, as well, you know.
We did realistic stuff.
But my favorite thing were these sort of carnival-esque shows
in which we would often get hurt.
-I genuinely think -- and I'm sure you feel the same way --
I count myself so lucky to have been in Chicago at that time.
And I hope Chicago is still like it today.
But there were followings for shows.
You know, I was an improviser at the time.
And it was great that you could do a show,
and I feel like people from all walks of lives would show up,
and you just learned how to be a better performer.
-I agree. I mean, I always say
I think it's the best town for theater in the country
because it doesn't have Broadway or Hollywood.
It doesn't have the ulterior motive.
You can't make money performing in Chicago.
So if you're doing it, it means you must really be earnest,
and people recognize that. -Yeah.
-They come for your work ethic. -Yeah.
You -- Your work ethic was so strong that you also built sets.
You did not have a big budget, I'm assuming, at Defiant.
-No, we did not. We had a small budget.
But we prided ourselves on --
I could drive around the alleys of Chicago for two hours
and collect all the materials I needed
to build any structure you would want for a set.
-Friends of mine from Chicago
who also were fans of the alleys in Chicago
and how you could find things,
they said the worst thing about New York is no alleys.
-It's true. -It's just like a no-alley town.
-Yeah. How are you supposed to furnish an apartment?
-Where were you living, speaking of apartments,
in Chicago back then?
-Well, my main spot, you know -- I bounced around a little 'cause
I was not making a lot of income.
But I talked a landlord of a warehouse
into letting me live in part of the warehouse.
This guy was generous. Because I was like, "Look."
Or maybe he thought I was threatening him.
So, I said, "Listen. Do you have anybody --
Do you have a night watchman here?"
He's like, "No." I'm like, "Somebody might come
in here and mess with your real nice warehouse full of stuff.
I would be willing to pay you a small amount and live in back,
and maybe I'd build some scenery in part of this --
and have a scenery shop."
And this guy agreed to it.
So I lived in this warehouse right around the corner
from Steppenwolf that is now a Crate & Barrel.
-Wow. So you obviously had an eye for real estate back then.
-Yeah. I knew what I was doing.