>> ON THE NEXT FLASH POINT, THE
OUTLOOK FOR THE CITY OF DETROIT, WITH URBANIST RICHARD FLORIDA
WITH URBANIST RICHARD FLORIDA
AND THE CITY’S NEW PLANNING DIRECTOR ANTOINE BRYANT.
REAL-TIME CLOSED CAPTIONING
PROVIDED BY U.S. CAPTIONING
COMPANY
>> HE INTRODUCED A LOT OF
PEOPLE TO THE IDEA OF THE
CREATIVE CLASS. RICHARD FLORIDA ON DETROIT, THE
RICHARD FLORIDA ON DETROIT, THE
PANDEMIC AND THE IMPACT OF THE
SO-CALLED BOBOS ON AMERICA. AFTER SHARING THE STAGE WITH
AFTER SHARING THE STAGE WITH
MAYOR DUGGAN, OUR CONVERSATION
WITH THE NEW PLANNING DIRECTOR ANTOINE BRYANT.
ANTOINE BRYANT.
TODAY A SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 26TH,
2000
2021.
>> Devin: WE’VE ARRIVED AT
AUTUMN AND AGAINST THE TIDE OF
NASTY PARTNERSHIP PARTISANSHIP, WE GOT A PACKAGE IN LANSING.
WE GOT A PACKAGE IN LANSING.
AND MAYOR DUGGAN, REFUSING TO
FACE-OFF WITH ANTHONY ADAMS,
REST ASSURED I’LL INVITE THEM TO APPEAR HERE.
APPEAR HERE.
AUTUMN HAS FLU SEASON, AND HAS
THE EXPERTS CONCERNED, THE
PANDEMIC DOESN’T NEED A FLU
CHASER. AND THE MACKINAC POLICY
AND THE MACKINAC POLICY
CONFERENCE AT THE MACKINAC HOTEL.
THE NOW PLANNING AND DIRECTOR
ANTOINE BRYANT WAS FROM THE
PROJECTS OF NEW YORK, AND WE’LL
TALK WITH HIM TODAY AND URBANIST RICHARD FLORIDA, IT’S NEARLY TWO
RICHARD FLORIDA, IT’S NEARLY TWO
DECADES SINCE HE PUBLISHED THE
RISE OF THE CREATIVE CLASS.
HE HAS THOUGHTS OF THE CITY OF DETROIT AND FRESH THOUGHTS ON
DETROIT AND FRESH THOUGHTS ON
THAT GROUP OF BOBOS, THE
BOHEMIANS,
BOHEMIANS HAVE THEY BEEN GOOD OR BAD FOR AMERICA?
BAD FOR AMERICA?
IT’S ALL ON FLASH POINT.
♪ ♪
IT’S ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO THAT
URBANIST RICHARD FLORIDA HAD
CITY PLANNERS AND COMMUNITY
DEVELOPERS, THE RISE OF THE CREATIVE CLASS AND A LOT HAS
CREATIVE CLASS AND A LOT HAS
HAPPENED SINCE THEN BACK AT THE
MACKINAC CONFERENCE GIVING THE
KEYNOTE ON WEDNESDAY TO TALK
ABOUT HIS VIEWS ON THE CITY OF
DETROIT AND IT’S VERY GOOD TO
HAVE RICHARD FLORIDA BACK WITH US ON FLASH POINT.
US ON FLASH POINT.
I SO APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.
>> IT’S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU,
IT’S GREAT TO BE AT MACKINAC AND MY KIDS TRAVELED WITH ME IN
MY KIDS TRAVELED WITH ME IN
GREATER DETROIT AND I’M HERE
THEY’RE IN THE DETROIT SUBURBS.
>> YOU’VE GOT MORE THAN A PASSING INTEREST IN DETROIT AS A
PASSING INTEREST IN DETROIT AS A
CITY, YOUR WIFE IS FROM DETROIT
AND BEFORE WE GET TO THE
CONFERENCE AND REFLECTIONS ON
WHAT IS HAPPENING IN DETROIT I
WANT TO TALK MORE BROADLY WHAT COVID HAS DONE TO OUR CITIES.
COVID HAS DONE TO OUR CITIES.
WE’VE HOSTED A LOT OF
CONVERSATIONS ON THIS PROGRAM OF
GUYS WHO, AND WHAT MEN AND WOMEN
WHO AREN’T SO SURE RIGHT NOW
THAT CITIES ARE GOING TO BOUNCE BACK IN THE WAY THAT WE’VE
BACK IN THE WAY THAT WE’VE
EXPECTED THEM TO BECAUSE WHY
WOULD I SPEND SO MUCH MONEY ON
DOWNTOWN OFFICE SPACE IF I’VE
GOT EMPLOYEES WHO NOT ONLY DON’T HAVE TO WORK IN PERSON, BUT A
HAVE TO WORK IN PERSON, BUT A
LOT OF THEM NO LONGER WANT TO?
>> THIS IS WHAT I’VE SPENT MY
PAST 18, 20 MONTHS DOING.
I HAD NO IDEA I’M NEARLY 40 YEARS INTO A CAREER AS AN
YEARS INTO A CAREER AS AN
URBANIST, NEVER ONCE CONFRONTED
IN MY STUDIES, TEACHING,
RESEARCH, PANDEMICS.
MY PARENTS WERE YOUNG KIDS
DURING THE SPANISH FLU AND NEVER MENTIONED IT.
MENTIONED IT.
I HAD NO IDEA AND I WENT BACK
AND DID A DEEP DIVE.
ONE THING I THINK IS THAT IT’S
CLEAR TO ME, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE
WERE TALKING ABOUT THE URBAN
EXODUS, EVERYONE IS LEAVING CITIES AND CITIES ARE DEAD.
CITIES AND CITIES ARE DEAD.
I WROTE A PIECE FOR CITY LAB
BACK IN APRIL OF LAST YEAR AND
NO, CITIES ARE NOT DEAD. THE HISTORY IS SHOWING THAT
THE HISTORY IS SHOWING THAT
AFTER PANDEMIC, BECAUSE OF YOUNG
PEOPLE.
FAMILIES WILL LEAVE AND CITIES
COME BACK BECAUSE THE YOUNG
PEOPLE ARE COMING BACK, CHICAGO,
NEW YORK AND DETROIT. THE OFFICE MARKET IS REALLY
THE OFFICE MARKET IS REALLY
INTERESTING BECAUSE THIS SHIFT
TO REMOTE WORK IS A BIG DEAL.
OF’ STUDIED THE FUTURE OF WORK
FOR MOST OF MY CAREER.
IT’S THE BIGGEST SHIFT I’VE EVER
SEEN. BEFORE THE PANDEMIC LESS THAN 5%
BEFORE THE PANDEMIC LESS THAN 5%
OF WORK DAYS WERE COMPLETED
REMOTELY.
NOW MORE THAN 20% OF WORK DAYS AFTER THE PANDEMIC WILL BE
AFTER THE PANDEMIC WILL BE
COMPLETED REMOTELY.
THAT MEANS 80% OF THE TIME 80%
OF US WILL GO TO WORK AND ONE OF
THE GREAT THINGS OF DOWNTOWN DETROIT.
IF YOU ASKED ME 20 YEARS AGO
COULD THIS HAPPEN?
I’D SAY NO WAY, IT’S ROARING
BACK, GREAT RESTAURANTS, GREAT WORK SPACE AS WE HAVE TO THINK
WORK SPACE AS WE HAVE TO THINK
OF CITIES NOT SO MUCH AS LIVING
AND WORKING IN THE DOWNTOWN
CORE, THEY’RE PLACES TO CONNECT
AND COME TOGETHER AND REMAKING
OF THE CITIES AND INCLUDING THE DOWNTOWN CENTRAL BUSINESS
DOWNTOWN CENTRAL BUSINESS
DISTRICT IN DETROIT, HAS TO BE
MORE ABOUT CONNECTION SPACES,
MEETING SPACE, CONVENING SPACES
AND RESTAURANTS AND CAFES WHERE
PEOPLE GET TOGETHER AND THEN I
THINK THE CITY WILL HAVE A FINE FUTURE.
>> I LIKE THE IDEA OF THINKING
ABOUT THE ROARING 20’S WHICH
CAME ALONG AFTER THE SPANISH FLU
PANDEMIC.
BUT I THINK THERE’S TWO KEY DIFFERENCES, NUMBER ONE IS OUR
DIFFERENCES, NUMBER ONE IS OUR
ABILITY TO WORK FROM HOME HAS
CHANGED.
AND WORKING FROM HOME IN 1921
REALLY WAS ONLY MEANT A COTTAGE
INDUSTRY. THE OTHER THING THAT’S DIFFERENT
THE OTHER THING THAT’S DIFFERENT
IS OUR POLITICAL NATURE AND OUR
DIVIDES IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW.
WHICH I THINK ARE GOING TO
COMPLICATE A LOT OF THINGS, MAYBE WORK IS ONE OF THEM, TOO.
MAYBE WORK IS ONE OF THEM, TOO.
>> SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, YOU’VE
GOT TO THINK ABOUT GREATER
DETROIT AS A METROPOLITAN
REGION.
WITH YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE CENTER
CORE, AND WHO ARE FLOCKING IN, NOT JUST FROM THE DETROIT
NOT JUST FROM THE DETROIT
SUBURBS, I’VE LOOKED AT THE DATA
FOR THE SPEECH I GAVE THE OTHER
DAY IN MACKINAC, FROM
INDIANAPOLIS, BUFFALO, FROM
ROCHESTER, FROM SMALLER MICHIGAN TOWNS, YEAH, DETROIT STILL LOSES
TOWNS, YEAH, DETROIT STILL LOSES
KIDS TO NEW YORK AND CHICAGO,
WHO DOESN’T?
BOSTON LOSES KIDS TO NEW YORK
AND CHICAGO.
BY THE WAY, DEVIN, A STATISTIC
FOR FOLKS OF ALL METROPOLITAN REGIONS IN THE COUNTRY GREATER
REGIONS IN THE COUNTRY GREATER
DETROIT HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST
RETENTION RATES OF COLLEGE GRADS
FROM ALL FOUR-YEAR INSTITUTIONS.
AND FROM FOUR-YEAR INSTITUTIONS IT’S 70%.
IT’S 70%.
NOW, YEAH, SOME KIDS FROM
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN WHO CAME
IN. NEW JERSEY, NEW YORK, L.A.
MOVE OUT, BUT ONLY NEW YORK AND
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA HAVE HIGHER RATES OF RETENTION OF KIDS THAN
RATES OF RETENTION OF KIDS THAN
DETROIT.
SO YOU’VE BEEN HANGING ON, YOU
TALK ABOUT BRAIN DRAIN.
YOU’VE BEEN HANGING ONTO TALENT
AND A LOT OF TALENT MOVES
DOWNTOWN. I THINK THE BIG CHALLENGE
I THINK THE BIG CHALLENGE
DOWNTOWN IS GOING TO BE OFFICES.
THERE ARE A GROUP OF PEOPLE LIKE
ME WHO LIKE TO WORK FROM HOME AND WORK A FEW DAYS OF WEEK,
AND WORK A FEW DAYS OF WEEK,
FOUR DAYS A WEEK, BUT WHEN THEY
COME DOWNTOWN THEY’RE GOING TO
LOOK FOR SOMETHING TO DO.
I WAS IN NEW YORK CITY A COUPLE
OF MONTHS AGO IN JULY, IT HAD LESS THAN 20% OFFICE OCCUPANCY,
LESS THAN 20% OFFICE OCCUPANCY,
BUT WHEN YOU WENT INTO MIDTOWN
AT 4:30 IN THE AFTERNOON THERE
WERE LINEUPS IN FRONT OF EVERY
RESTAURANT.
PEOPLE DRESSED WITH A BUSINESS SUIT, CASUAL SHIRT.
SUIT, CASUAL SHIRT.
A WOMAN IN A NICE DRESS.
THERE WERE ALL WORKERS NOT
COMING TO WORK IN THE OFFICE.
THEY WERE COMING TO MEET WITH
COLLEAGUES IN A RESTAURANT OR A CAFE OR FOR DRINKS.
CAFE OR FOR DRINKS.
WE AS A SPECIES HAVE A NEED TO
CONNECT.
THAT’S THE FUTURE OF THE CITY
AND WITHOUT THE CENTER CORE IN
DETROIT IT’S NOT GOING TO
DELIVER THAT.
>> Devin: FASCINATING. I’M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR NEW AND
I’M CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR NEW AND
THE WAY YOU’VE SELF-EXAMINED
WHAT THE CREATIVE LAST HAS
WROUGHT IN AMERICA.
A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO YOU WROTE
SORT OF A FOLLOW-UP TO THE RISE
OF THE CREATIVE CLASS THE NEW URBAN CRISIS AND YOU KIND OF
URBAN CRISIS AND YOU KIND OF
LOOKED AROUND AND SAW A NUMBER
OF CITIES HAD NOT DEVELOPED
MAYBE IN A HEALTHY WAY. AND MORE RECENTLY, DAVID BROOKS,
AND MORE RECENTLY, DAVID BROOKS,
WHO WROTE BOBOS IN PARADISE BACK
ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO, HE WROTE A
RATHER WITHERING LOOK BACK AT THAT SORT OF IDEA, THE CREATIVE
THAT SORT OF IDEA, THE CREATIVE
CLASS AND I WANT TO QUOTE HIM
DIRECTLY HERE.
THE BOBOS HAVE COALESCED TO AN
INTERMARRYING INTERMARRYING INFORMATION AND
INTERMARRYING INFORMATION AND
TECH AND THOSE OF US IN THE
CLASS HAVE A HARD TIME ADMITTING
OUR POWER, MUCH LESS USING IT RESPONSIBILITY THE IDEA THAT THE
RESPONSIBILITY THE IDEA THAT THE
CREATIVE CLASS THE BOBOS HAVE
HELPED CREATE THIS MASSIVE
DIVISION IN AMERICA, POLITICALLY
AND ECONOMICALLY.
>> A HUNDRED PERCENT. THE FINAL CHAPTER OF MY BACK
THE FINAL CHAPTER OF MY BACK
WRITTEN IN THE YEAR 2002 WAS THE
CREATIVE CLASS GROWS UP QUESTION
MARK.
AND IN THAT CHAPTER I ARGUED
THAT THE CREATIVE CLASS, PRIVILEGED CLASS A THIRD OF THE
PRIVILEGED CLASS A THIRD OF THE
WORK FORCE THAT DOES RESEARCH,
KNOWLEDGE WORK, MANAGEMENT,
FINANCE, MEDICINE THE PRIVILEGED
THIRD IF THEY DO NOT WAKE UP AND TAKE WORK SERIOUSLY AND REACH
TAKE WORK SERIOUSLY AND REACH
OUT TO THE WORKING CLASSES WE’D
LIVE IN A HIGHLY DIVIDED SOCIETY AND PUBLISHED AN ARTICLE 2003,
AND PUBLISHED AN ARTICLE 2003,
INEQUALITY IN CLASSES PLACES
LIKE FRANSAN FRANCISCO, NEW YORK
BOSTON, THE WAY WE’VE BEEN DEVELOPING SINCE THE YEAR 2000,
DEVELOPING SINCE THE YEAR 2000,
THERE’S NO NEW NEWS HERE.
IT’S GETTING WORSE, WE HAVE A HIGHLY DIVIDED SOCIETY.
HIGHLY DIVIDED SOCIETY.
WE USE RED AND BLUE, PEOPLE WITH
THOSE WITH COLLEGE DEGREES AND RED ASSOCIATED WITH MY DAD.
RED ASSOCIATED WITH MY DAD.
7TH GRADE EDUCATION AND SERVICE
INDUSTRY AND THAT GOES FOR
VACCINATION.
WE DID ANALYSIS.
CREATIVE CLASS HIGHLY VACCINATED AND HIGHLY EDUCATED.
AND HIGHLY EDUCATED.
HIGHLY EDUCATED PEOPLE, MUCH
LOWER.
AND THE NATION OF THE DIVIDE.
WHAT I GOT WRONG, I GET A LOT WRONG, EVEN THE SMARTEST PEOPLE
WRONG, EVEN THE SMARTEST PEOPLE
THAT GET A LOT--
GET MORE THINGS WRONG THAN RIGHT, WHAT I GOT WRONG, HOW
RIGHT, WHAT I GOT WRONG, HOW
FEROCIOUS THIS URBAN REVIVEAL
WOULD BE.
AND IF I THOUGHT MY HOME OF PITTSBURGH, OR DETROIT, WHERE
PITTSBURGH, OR DETROIT, WHERE
PEOPLE WOULD MOVE FROM NEW YORK
OR, SAN FRANCISCO TO PITTSBURGH
OR DETROIT, FOR MORE AFFORDABLE
LIVING, YOU WOULD HAVE
CO-WORKING SPACES AND
EXCITEMENT.
PEOPLE WOULD HAVE SAID I WAS COMPLETELY BANANAS.
COMPLETELY BANANAS.
SO, I THINK WHAT I MISSED AND
WHAT DAVID BROOKS MISSED WITH AS
HOW MUCH THIS CREATIVE CLASS WAS
HUNGERING FOR A NEW LIFE STYLE. THE BIG SHIFT I SEE NOW, WHICH I
THE BIG SHIFT I SEE NOW, WHICH I
FIND FASCINATING TALKING TO YOU
FROM NORTHERN MICHIGAN, IS THE
CREATIVE CLASS, WHICH IS IN PART VERY URBAN, NOT SO SUBURBAN.
VERY URBAN, NOT SO SUBURBAN.
YOU KNOW, THEY KIND OF ESHEWED, AND THEY’RE A LOVER OF RURAL
AND THEY’RE A LOVER OF RURAL
AREAS.
MOVEMENT FROM BROOKLYN NATIVES
TO THE HUDSON RIVER VALLEYS.
I WAS UP IN TRAFFIC VERSUS CITY IN JUNE AND I MET SO MANY
IN JUNE AND I MET SO MANY
CREATIVE CLASS TYPES, YES, SOME
FROM DETROIT, MORE FROM CHICAGO AND A KA GAZILLION FROM
AND A KA GAZILLION FROM
BROOKLYN.
AND THE BOSEMAN, MONTANA,
PHENOMENON
PHENOMENON, AND THAT’S BHA WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO.
HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO.
>> DO YOU SEE THE DIVISION AND
CONCENTRATION OF THE HAVE’S AND
THE HAVE-NOT’S, THE CONCENTRATION OF WEALTH IN THE
CONCENTRATION OF WEALTH IN THE
HANDS OF SO FEW, SEEMS DEEPLY
PERILOUS TO SO MANY.
DO YOU SEE A PRESCRIPTION FOR
IT?
>> THAT’S WHERE WE HAVE THE ROARING 2020’S.
ROARING 2020’S.
WE’VE NOT SEEN THIS LEVEL OF
GROSS INEQUALITY SINCE THE
1920’S.
WHEN I WATCHED AND PEOPLE WROTE SCATHING ARTICLES ABOUT THE MET
SCATHING ARTICLES ABOUT THE MET
GALA, WHEN I THINK OF MARIE
ANTOINETTE AND THE PRIVILEGED
THROUGH AND SOME LIKE DONALD TRUMP, MAR-A-LAGO, AND SOME ON
TRUMP, MAR-A-LAGO, AND SOME ON
THE LEFT IN THE MET GALA, THAT GALLS PEOPLE.
GALLS PEOPLE.
IT’S A GOCHE DISPLAY AND I THINK
THAT ECONOMIC, THE GAP BETWEEN
THE SUPER RICH AND THE REST, WHAT I SAY IS GEOGRAPHIC, AND WE
WHAT I SAY IS GEOGRAPHIC, AND WE
COMPLETELY OCCUPY SEPARATE
WORLDS.
MY DAD WITH A 7TH GRADE EDUCATION AND NEXT TO MY UNCLE,
EDUCATION AND NEXT TO MY UNCLE,
HIGH LEVEL EXECUTIVE IN
PALMOLIVE AND THESE TWO DON’T
OCCUPY THE SAME PLANET. AND HERE IS ONE THING I’LL SAY
AND HERE IS ONE THING I’LL SAY
ABOUT METROPOLITAN DETROIT.
MY EXTENDED FAMILY LIVES IN
METROPOLITAN DETROIT WITH WITH HILLARY CLINTON AND BARACK
HILLARY CLINTON AND BARACK
OBAMA, JOE BIDEN, AND DONALD
TRUMP EVERY WEEK ON A FAMILY
CHAT HAVE A GREAT-OPEN MINDED
DISCUSSION AND THAT’S THE BEAUTY OF THE METROPOLITAN DETROIT.
OF THE METROPOLITAN DETROIT.
FAMILIES HAVE AND COMMUNITIES
HAVE TO BOND TOGETHER AND THAT’S
THE WAY WE GET OUT OF IT.
WE HAVE AN OPEN AND HONEST
CONVERSATION AS A COMMUNITY AND I THINK WE CAN DO IT.
I THINK WE CAN DO IT.
>> WE’VE GOT TO FIND A WAY TO
MINGLE.
RICHARD FLORIDA JOINING US FROM
MACKINAC ISLAND.
WE’LL HAVE TO HAVE YOU BACK ON
THE PROGRAM. >> AND HOPEFULLY GET TO SEE EACH
>> AND HOPEFULLY GET TO SEE EACH
OTHER IN PERSON BEFORE TOO LONG.
GREAT TO SEE YOU.