Evan Rachel Wood, welcome to The Daily Show.
-Thanks. Thanks for having me. -It's good to have you here, um,
especially to talk about a topic that I think is one of the more
sensitive topics that we-we're discussing in society today,
but also one of the more pertinent topics that we're
discussing in society today.
-And it's in and around the issue of abuse. -Mm-hmm.
You know, sexual abuse, which, as we learn from the
Me Too movement, is far more rampant than people would have
wanted to admit or even some people realized.
And you've created a-a documentary here.
Let's start with the why, maybe.
And not why the documentary, but the timing of the documentary.
-Mm-hmm. -So many people want to let go of pain in their life.
So many people want to move on.
It feels like you've done the exact opposite. You've gone
back into the pain. You've gone back into the story.
-Why, and why now? -Well, it is 16 years later.
So, uh, I do get a lot of people commenting on how
I'm able to speak about things and put on a brave face and...
and... how "strong" I am.
Um... But it-it took 16 years to get here.
And the first thing that I did when I got out was
try to get as far away from it as possible.
Try to forget it ever happened.
You're-You're running. You're trying to forget
-that it ever happened. -Yeah.
Um, and then, of course, it catches up with you,
and, uh, I-I couldn't run from it. It started--
the trauma started to seep into other areas of my life.
So I threw myself into-into therapy,
which I highly recommend if you have the resources.
-Yeah. Yeah. -Unfortunately, in this country,
you know, mental health is not always at the top of the list.
Um, and-and it really...
I... I-I was planning on taking this to my grave.
-I really was not planning on saying anything ever. -Wow.
I-I was that afraid.
Um, and that afraid of retaliation.
I just did not feel safe, and I felt very alone.
I thought I was the only one.
And you'll hear that a lot from-from abuse survivors.
When I, uh, first was asked to testify
for the Sexual Assault Survivors' Bill of Rights
in front of Congress about my story,
I really thought that was gonna be it.
I thought, "Okay, here. I'm gonna tell my story,
and that's it. I'm gonna be done."
And then women started popping up-- and men-- online
-that had eerily similar stories. -Man.
But new details that I knew they weren't lying.
There were very, very specific details that I...
Uh, there's just no way you could know those things
unless-unless you were toe to toe with that person.
So I knew it was real, and that's when it changed.
That's when I knew I couldn't stay quiet.
You know, when you say "that person,"
I guess one of the reasons the story is as big as it is
is not just because of what happened
but it's because of who it involves.
-Yes. -You know, you named Marilyn Manson.
In cases of abuse, oftentimes, we think of it
as being black or white, good and bad.
-Yes. -You know, we... There are layers to people,
which make it complicated.
And you've talked about... you've talked about his history.
You've talked about, you know, his history with abuse.
You've talked about his-his history
with, you know, the issues that he deals with mentally,
-et cetera. -Mm-hmm.
I-I found that particularly interesting
because I felt it cloudies a subject
that is already quite complicated,
and yet because of that,
-it deserves to be part of the conversation. -Mm-hmm.
Why did you feel it necessary to say,
"Hey, this is the person who abused me,
"and this person also suffered abuse,
and this person is also going through things"?
Why do that knowing that it would then,
you know, almost cloud some people's judgment
in, like, who's guilty or who's not
or even... or even who's accountable sometimes?
Of course. And-and that's...
Uh, it-it can definitely get complicated in that way,
because I-I do believe in accountability
and healing and-and reform, and I think there is a...
a-a time and a space for that.
And I think we need to leave more space for accountability.
Otherwise, nobody's gonna be accountable.
-Right. -Um, but, uh, I-I just knew
we're never gonna get to the root of this problem
if-if we don't go into the background,
um... and-and the root and the cause,
because violence in the home
is-is the root of so many issues in this country,
in the world, it bleeds into almost
every area of society, and we don't even realize it.
Um, and violence begets violence. It's-- it is a cycle.
Um... And, uh, there are people
that can stop the cycle.
Um, and there are some people I feel--
like Brian-- that don't want help.
And he's had every opportunity,
-he's had so many people try. -Mm.
Um, and he has-he has refused it every time.
Um, and, uh,
once... I mean, I don't know how much I can say.
But there, you know, there-there have been allegations
and, uh, stories that have come out
on the-on the Internet that involve minors.
And... you got to draw the line somewhere.
And-and with children...
I-I have to draw the line there.
Um... and, uh,
I don't believe that he will stop
until he is stopped, and sometimes
the greatest act of love is stopping that person
from hurting themselves or hurting anybody else.
We in society often say, we go, "Well, why didn't do you
do it sooner? Why didn't you come forward sooner?"
And-and so, I would love to know from you
how time-- how you think
-time affects the-the mental state, -Mm-hmm.
the relationship and the entire world
of somebody who's experienced sexual abuse.
People underestimate the...
the power of that kind of trauma
and what it does to your body and to your brain.
And there's so many studies to back this up.
And-and this is what the laws do not reflect.
Is the effects of trauma on the brain.
And a lot of people, when they're--
think they know how they're gonna respond
to a situation like that, until you're in
a life-threatening situation and you're doing risk assessment
and are you in survival mode, and you're gonna
have that fight, flight or freeze response--
sometimes all three-- um,
you're just trying to survive that moment
and get the least amount of damage, you know?
And, uh, and then, once you're out, again,
like I said, you-you... your-your body and your brain
-do back flips to protect you from the pain. -Mm.
And-and that's how denial comes into play.
That's how, you know, addiction comes into play.
Bad coping mechanisms, 'cause are you just
kind of buried, because to-to face it,
to-to face the reality is-is almost unbearable.
I think, on average, it takes people seven to ten years
to be able to process, understand,
heal, and be able to put things in chronological order.
The laws, I mean, you know... (stammers)
In California, the statute of limitations
was one to three years when we started, uh,
advocating for the Phoenix Act.
And, you know, o... (chuckles)
one to three years
-is nothing to a survivor... -Yeah, it's nowhere near. Yeah.
...or-or to somebody that has experienced
not just one incidence of trauma,
which is...
You know, any act of trauma is-is terrible.
But, you know, i-imagine 24/7 for four years.
The damage that that would do on somebody's psyche
-and self-esteem. -Right.
And, um, with somebody like him,
who was very calculated in brainwashing,
in-in isolation,
um, it-it very much operates like a cult
in that, when you're in it,
you can't see the forest for the-- through the trees.
Up is down, down is up.
It's-it's you two against the world.
And it is a secret that nobody will ever be able to understand,
and you feel like you're a part of something, you know?
Um, and you got to... you got to break free of that illusion.
And-and it-it takes time.
It takes time and work and therapy.
I cannot stress that enough.
Um, but, you know, again, I-I had those resources,
I have a platform, I have privilege.
So...
it really breaks my heart to think of people
that don't have access to the things that I've had access to
and-and how alone they must feel,
and that really is what-what drives me.
Well, as I said at the beginning of the conversation,
it's one of the hardest conversations to have,
I think, because it makes us question
-a lot of what we've allowed in society... -Of course.
...who we are, who we were, and who we hope to be.
And, um, yeah, thank you for joining us on the show.
And I encourage everybody to watch the documentary
and hear your side of the story.
-Thank you. (chuckles softly) -Thank you so much.
The two-part HBO documentary Phoenix Rising
airs March 15 and 16 on HBO
and can be streamed on HBO Max.