If all of that is believable, then why
did Mr. Cohen draft an agreement with a
signature line for Donald Trump?
What I fear for this Democratic Party that I love so much
is that we have a tendency to bring nail clippers to a gunfight.
Cover-up should always matter to the American people.
Are you trying to win a case or take down a president?
Considering the the tone of Michael Avenatti recent public
appearances the answer is probably both.
At least while the lawyer for
Stormy Daniels gauges the political winds.
Avenatti's public profile has risen
quickly from little-known L.A. lawyer and
part-time racecar driver, too outspoken
presidential critic and possible
Democratic candidate. Brash and cocky
Avenatti says the key to beating Trump
in 2020 is to beat him at his own game
Rosemary's conversation with
Michael Avenatti in just a moment but
first a little background.
Michael Avenatti rose to fame as the
lawyer for stormy Daniels real name
Stephanie Clifford she's the adult film
star at the center of a presidential
controversy did Donald Trump and his
lawyer pay her hush money to stay silent
on an alleged affair this is a cover-up
he defended her every chance he got I
think it's pretty clear that my client
is very very credible it's pretty clear
they've been lied to by mr. Cohen and
it's pretty clear that Donald Trump is
covering this up
suddenly in a polarized America he's
become known as a kind of antitrump a
role he seems to wear easily talking a
big game about how the Democrats need a
fighter to beat the president and how
he's willing to do it
Trump style we must leave it all on the
field every day and fight for it using
Twitter as a political tool he's even
got his own hashtag basta Italian for
enough it is time to make America
independent again now there's talk of a
potential 2020 presidential run an
unconventional opponent for an
unconventional incumbent I met up with
Michael avenatti in Los Angeles to talk
about just how far he'll go in taking on
Trump at what point does this become
less about the lawsuit and more about
ending a presidency we're trying to
bring down a president well my number
one focus is resolving this lawsuit for
the benefit of my client but that that's
not the only focus I mean I wouldn't be
here you know I don't think I followed
you on Twitter six months ago now you've
got 700,000 followers you are part of a
national conversation in a way that you
weren't before so it's not at what point
did it no longer become the only thing
you were thinking about and suddenly you
realized you were you were maybe doing
something more than just being a lawyer
I do believe that part of my job is to
make sure that the facts and the
evidence are laid bare for the American
public and the rest of the world and
ultimately the American public will
decide one way or the other as to the
consequences if any that result from the
cover-up and potential criminal conduct
associated with this hundred and thirty
thousand dollar payment sure but you're
you're now doing things that are that
are not about that that are more about
pushing back on policy decisions that
he's made whether it be migrant children
or other things you're traveling the
country you're meeting with Democrats so
this obviously went to another loved
at some point when you realized hey I
can maybe turn this into something else
why did you decide to start even
thinking about that yeah it really
wasn't about me turning it into
something else because I have a good
life and my life would be much easier if
I did not enter the political realm um
frankly and I haven't decided what I'm
gonna do and people kind of look at me
skeptically when I say that but that's
the honest-to-god truth as I sit here
right now I don't know whether I'm gonna
run or whether I'm not gonna run but
your sussing things out I am I'm
absolutely doing my homework I'm
traveling around the country I'm trying
to raise money for Democrats in
connection with the midterms and at the
same time I'm gauging reaction for a
potential run talking to voters learning
about issues and I'm being very thorough
in my approach and the reason that I am
even considering it is because I am very
concerned that the Democrats may
nominate somebody that cannot beat this
guy in 2020 and the United States and I
would also venture to say the rest of
the world including our fine neighbor to
the north cannot afford six more years
of this president I think the
consequences will be significant and I
think it will be disastrous and I
frankly believe that the future of the
Republic hinges on the outcome of the
2020 election so when you're meeting
with people like David Axelrod and other
serious people who know how to do this
are they taking you seriously very in
fact I have been I've been surprised at
the amount of positive feedback and
encouragement that I have received from
senior individuals within the Democratic
Party and people across this country not
just you have almost no political
experience not just here in California
but in Florida and Iowa and New York and
New Hampshire and two trips to Ohio and
elsewhere and look this is a unique
situation you're not gonna be Donald
Trump by nominating an experienced
highly knowledgeable typical politician
that can't hold a stage with him and
that cannot
compete with him within the media realm
that we find ourselves in you're not
going to do that he's beat 16 he's beat
16 to 17 of those individuals already
and the definition of insanity is doing
the same thing over and over again and
expecting a different result
and that's exactly what is gonna happen
unless the Democrats nominate the
appropriate candidate in 2020 and by the
way I don't believe I'm the only
individual that can do that I think
there's a few others that can do it and
we'll see whether they decide to run or
not you said in one of these speeches
that you've been giving that when they
go low we hit harder we must be the
party that marshals the power of law and
government to strike back at those that
strike our cheek
and to bring those to justice when they
go low I say we hit harder why is that
the right answer for public discourse in
this country right now because I'm not
sure you guys can go much lower well I
don't the Democrats certainly can go
harder I mean the Democrats have been
pacifist for far too long they've been
on the right side of issue after issue
they've been completely outmaneuvered
and outplayed and out beaten frankly by
the Republicans for a very long time
right but I'm not sure that going harder
and a candidate who's going to embrace
social media in the same way as Donald
Trump because in some ways you know how
to move the media the same way that he
does how does that make things better
for this country if you just all end up
playing on the same level do you see
what I'm saying and I just wonder how
that improves politics improves people's
lives improves democracy this is about
winning and if you don't win in 2020
you're never gonna have a chance to
implement policies that affect people's
lives you're never gonna have a chance
to unify this country on race or
otherwise you're just not so and anybody
that claims otherwise in my view is just
wrong so this isn't about how one is
going to govern this is about how one is
going to get the opportunity to govern
Donald Trump is in apt at a lot of
things
he's also bro
at a number of things one of the things
that he's brilliant about is his use of
social media his use of Twitter he's an
expert campaigner he knows how to
motivate his base he knows how to
deliver branding and messaging and too
many people have underestimated this guy
and I'm very concerned that others may
also look to underestimate him in 2020
and he's not to be underestimated the
only person that has a shot of beating
this guy is somebody with a big
personality that knows how to hit back
the question I would have for you about
your the disadvantage would be Donald
Trump arrived on the scene and he was a
known commodity to Americans right I
mean he had sort of been in their living
rooms he is associated with money you
are not as well known people are
starting to get to know you but you you
don't have the same kind of brand that
he did when he got into it would that be
something that you would reflect on do
you do you think that you could still
take him on given the fact that he has
this reputation love him or hate him
absolutely I mean do you think Donald
Trump wants to face me in a debate stage
I don't think so
I think the dichotomy between me and
Donald Trump and debate stage would be
shocking frankly there's no doubt in my
view that I have the presence to do that
there's no doubt in my view that I
certainly have the ability to go
toe-to-toe with him or beyond from an
intelligence and insight standpoint
frankly and I think that he would not
does not want to face someone like me in
the general election mm-hmm you said
that the run for presidency wouldn't be
about your ego there has to be a little
bit about your ego well you have to look
you have to have an ego to run for
president United States of course and
then frankly I mean look here's the test
as it relates to whether this is about
my ego if Donald Trump does not run and
if Mike Pence does not run
I will not seek the office the
presidency and I'll probably never seek
the office of the presidency so that is
the test frankly as to whether this is
about my ego or whether this is about
solving a dumpster fire of a presidency
that threatens not only the United
States
the rest of the world perhaps so when do
you make a decision then how is this
unfold you're gonna keep talking to
people I'm gonna keep talking to people
I honestly see how the midterms go
correct I honestly do not have a
timeline for this I'm gonna continue to
travel around the country and are you
building a team I'm consulting with
people I'm in the process of
contemplating bringing people on to help
me in the problem you talk to former
presidents again I'm not gonna get into
who I've talked to her who I haven't
talked to about this but look I didn't
build my life around trying to take a
shot at this I didn't I would have done
a lot of things differently there's a
bunch of things I did do that I would
not have done and there's a bunch of
things that I didn't do that I should
have done in the last 20 years and
that's the honest-to-god truth you know
47 years of age I didn't expect to be
put in this position but this is a very
serious problem facing the United States
and others somebody's gonna have to
solve it I don't know if I'm that guy
yet what's with basta
what's with Austin yeah almost all your
tweets lives done faster so so so basta
is a word that I first came to know from
my grandmother who was on my father's
side he was Italian and she used to say
to me basta growing up isn't enough and
so when I first got involved in this
case I thought it was rather apropos the
circumstances and so I started using
hashtag basta and it's it's caught on so
the anti-trump moniker the people are
trying to give you and maybe that you're
embracing I'm not sure it's unclear to
me here you're you're okay with that
that I'm the anti-trump well I think
under the circumstances I can think of a
few things that would be more
complimentary thank you for your time
thank you very nice to meet you Lori's
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