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>> THE MOST BIPARTISAN
IMPEACHMENT VOTE IN AMERICAN
HISTORY STILL FALLS 10 VOTES SHY
OF CONVICTION.
WHILE BACK IN MICHIGAN, THE
G.O.P.’S LEADER IN THE SENATE
FEEDS THE CONSPIRACY FIRE.
AND THE PANDEMIC LEADS THE
FORMER MEDICAL DIRECTOR FOR THE
CITY OF DETROIT TO MAKE A
NATIONAL PLEA FOR UNIVERSAL
HEALTH CARE.
TODAY IS SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 14TH,
2021 AND THIS IS FLASH POINT.
>> HI, WELCOME TO FLASH POINT ON
THIS VALENTINE’S DAY 2021.
IT WAS ANYTHING, BUT CANDY,
HEARTS AND FLOWERS YESTERDAY OF
COURSE THE UNITED STATES SENATE.
WE FIGURED ON FRIDAY THINGS
WOULD END QUICKLY AND THEY DID,
BUT ONLY AFTER A BIZARRE FIGHT
WHETHER TO CALL WITNESSES AFTER
EVIDENCE EMERGED WHAT THE
PRESIDENT KNEW ABOUT THE
INSURRECTION AND WHEN HE KNEW IT
AND JUST AS CRITICALLY, WHAT HE
DIDN’T DO ABOUT IT.
IN A STRANGE ABOUT-FACE AND
THAT’S A KINDER WAY OF PUTTING
IT THAN THOSE ON SOCIAL MEDIA,
THEY MOVED TO THE ARGUMENTS AND
VOTE.
AND SEVEN REPUBLICANS BREAKING
RANKS TO CONVICT.
NOW THAT THE WHOLE THING IS
DONE, WHERE DOES IT LEAVE THE
UNITED STATES?
ARE WE AS DIVIDED AS EVER OR IS
THERE A LITTLE CONSTITUTION
AMONG SOME OF THE PRESIDENT’S
SUPPORTERS AS THEY WATCHED
PEOPLE LIKE THE SEVEN SENATORS,
AND FORMER U.N. AMBASSADOR NIKKI
HALEY BREAKING RANKS WITH DONALD
TRUMP.
CERTAINLY SENATOR MAJORITY
LEADER MIKE SHIRKEY LEFT SOME
FOLKS CONFUSED AND REFUSES TO GO
ALONG WITH THE MICHIGAN ELECTION
REPORTS REINFORCED BY AN AUDIT
THIS WEEK THAT BASICALLY SHOWED
THEM ON THE MONEY, BUT SHIRKEY
WAS INSISTING THAT THE
INSURRECTIONISTS AT THE CAPITOL
WERE NOT TRUMP SUPPORTERS AND
APOLOGIZED FOR THAT AND ONLY TO
BE CAUGHT ON ANOTHER MICROPHONE
DOUBLING DOWN.
AND I HAD HOPED HE WOULD BE
HERE, BUT I CAN’T GET ANYONE IN
HIS OFFICE TO TELL ME NOW LET
ALONE YES.
AND NOW THE DOCTOR HAS
CO-AUTHORED A NEW BOOK URGING
AMERICANS TO CONSIDER UNIVERSAL
HEALTH CARE.
HE BELIEVES THE PANDEMIC HAS
GREATLY STRENG
GREATLY STRENGTHENED THE CASE
AND WE’LL TALK TO HIM TODAY OWL ON FLASH POINT.
ON FLASH POINT.
♪
WHAT A WEEK IT’S BEEN.
FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP ESCAPES
IMPEACHMENT CONVICTION FOR A
SECOND TIME THOUGH WITH MORE
REPUBLICANS VOTING IN FAVOR THAN
MANY EXPECTED AND A WILD WEEK
FOR THE LEADER OF THE G.O.P. AT
THE STATE CAPITOL.
LET’S TALK ABOUT IT WITH ZOE
CLARK, CO-HOST OF IT’S JUST
POLITICS.
GUY GORDON WITH THE
SERENDIPITOUS NAMED GUY GORDON
SHOW.
AND STEPHEN HENDERSON AND FROM
THE DETROIT NEWS, NOLAN FINLEY.
HAPPY VALENTINE’S DAY.
I’M CURIOUS LET ME START WITH
YOUR THUMBNAIL TALKS AND TAKE
AWAYS FROM WHAT WE WATCHED
PARTICULARLY IN YESTERDAY, BUT
IN GENERAL OVER THE LAST WEEK.
GUY, LET ME START WITH YOU.
>> WE DIDN’T SEE A
CONSTITUTIONAL CONVICTION, BUT I
THINK WE SAW THE BEGINNINGS OF A
POLITICAL CONVICTION.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE G.O.P.
SENATORS, I THINK THEY’RE
BEGINNING TO TRY TO DISTANCE
THEMSELVES FROM DONALD TRUMP.
THE REAL QUESTION FOR ME IS, IN
TERMS OF WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.
WILL WE SEE A 9/11 COMMISSION TO
LOOK INTO THIS?
WILL WE SEE WITNESSES TELL US
WHAT HAPPENED AT THE OVAL?
I’M DETECTING WITH MY LISTENERS,
DEVIN, WHILE THERE ARE THOSE
THAT COULD SEE HIM SHOOT SOMEONE
ON FIFTH AVENUE AND STILL BE
OKAY WITH IT, I THINK THIS IDEA
OF DERELICTION OF DUTY IS
GAINING SOME TRACTION AND IS
TROUBLING TO MANY OF MY
LISTENERS WHO SAID IF WE SAW A
GOOD CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN
WITH THE VALUES WITHOUT THE
DRAMA, I COULD VOTE FOR THEM.
THEY HAVE A HARD TIME DEFENDING
THE DERELICTION OF DUTY, WHAT
HAPPENED FROM 1:15 UNTIL NEXT
DAY.
>> INTERESTING.
NOLAN, ARE YOU SENSING A FRAYING
OF SORT OF THE DONALD TRUMP
POWER BASE OR IS THAT WHERE THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY LARGELY
REMAINS?
>> I THINK YOU SAW THAT ON
JANUARY 6TH, A BREAKING POINT
FOR SOME, BUT I DON’T THINK THE
EVENTS OF LAST WEEK CHANGED ANY
MINDS.
AND THE LAST FOUR YEARS, WITH
THIS OBSESSION OF GETTING DONALD
TRUMP.
YOU’VE GOT TO LOOK AT WHAT’S
HAPPENING OUT IN THE DISTRICTS.
PETER MEIJER OVER THE WEEKEND,
MODERATE REPUBLICAN WAS CENSURED
FOR HIS IMPEACHMENT VOTE.
YOU’RE SEEING THAT OVER AND OVER
IN THESE DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT
THE COUNTRY, WHERE PEOPLE WHO
SUPPORTED THE IMPEACHMENT,
REPUBLICANS WHO SUPPORTED THE
IMPEACHMENT OR WHO WEREN’T VOCAL
ENOUGH IN SUPPORT OF TRUMP ARE
BEING CENSURED.
SO I WOULDN’T--
I WOULDN’T READ THIS AS AN
ABSOLUTE EROSION OF THAT LOVE
FOR TRUMP.
>> STEPHEN, THERE WERE SO MANY
THINGS I’VE WATCHED HERE THAT I
DID NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND.
I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND MITCH
MCCONNELL’S SORT OF AFTER WORD
THAT HE PUT TOWARD YESTERDAY.
I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND THE
DEMOCRATS ASKING FOR WITNESSES
AND THEN DECIDING AGAINST THAT.
I DIDN’T UNDERSTAND TED CRUZ AND
LINDSEY GRAHAM HUDDLING WITH THE
PRESIDENT’S ATTORNEYS.
WHAT ARE YOUR TAKE AWAYS FROM
WHAT WE WATCHED?
>> WELL, SOME OF THIS IS THE
NATURE OF IMPEACHMENT, WHICH IS
A UNIQUE FEATURE OF OUR
CONSTITUTIONAL SYSTEM AND IT’S
HAPPENED SO INFREQUENTLY NOBODY
KNOWS WHAT THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO
BE DOING.
ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, YOU HAVE
A CRISIS OF MORAL CONVICTION.
YOU HAVE A PARTY THAT HAS SLID
ALL THE WAY INTO NOT JUST
EXCUSING THE BEHAVIOR OF A
MANIACAL LEADER, BUT LOOKING THE
OTHER WAY, IN THIS CASE, AT
DEATH.
I MEAN, I POSTED ON SOCIAL MEDIA
YESTERDAY, WOULD THE G.O.P.
LEADERSHIP HAVE BEEN SO COWARDLY
IN THIS INSTANCE IN MEMBERS OF
CONGRESS HAD BEEN AMONG THE DEAD
ON JANUARY 6TH?
WHY AREN’T THEY MORE EXERCISED
ABOUT THE FACT THAT THESE
RIOTERS KILLED A POLICE OFFICER
INSIDE THE CAPITOL?
THE ROT INSIDE THE PARTY THAT
PREVENTS THEM FROM HOLDING THE
PERSON WHO STARTED THIS
ACCOUNTABLE IS SO DANGEROUS AND
THREATENS THE PARTY’S VERY
VIABILITY, AT LEAST AT A
NATIONAL LEVEL.
>> AND ZOE GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS
ON WHAT YOU FELT WE WERE
WATCHING HERE.
WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
>> I THINK THAT EVERYBODY THAT’S
BEEN SAID IS EXACTLY ACCURATE.
I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES IS ALL
OF THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING AT
HYPER SPEED IT FEELS LIKE OVER
THE PAST FEW YEARS, AND WHETHER
THAT BE SOCIAL MEDIA, THE WAY WE
INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER AND
INTERACT AND GET OUR NEWS,
RIGHT.
I THINK WHAT WE ARE IS WATCHING
A PARTY THAT’S FIGURING OUT WHO
IT IS AND BECAUSE WE’RE DOING IT
IN A HYPER LAPSED TIME IT FEELS
LIKE WHIPLASH.
IN PERIODS OF HISTORY BEFORE,
WHEN THE RE-SORTING AND
CO-OPTING OF VOTERS, IT’S A
LONGER PERIOD OF TIME.
THE FACT IS WE’RE IN THE MIDDLE
OF IT AND WATCHING AND TRYING TO
PREDICT THE OUTCOME WE DON’T
KNOW HOW IT ENDS OR PLAYS OUT.
>> WE’RE BUILDING THE PLANE AS
WE’RE FLYING IT AS SOMEBODY
POINTED OUT YESTERDAY.
>> AMEN.
>> GUY, IT’S INTERESTING BECAUSE
SO MUCH OF THIS FOMENT WAS BUILT
ON, AS WAS DESCRIBED, THE GREAT
LIE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE
ELECTION, AND I--
WHEN I LISTEN TO YOUR PROGRAM
AND I TRY TO LISTEN TO A BIT OF
YOUR SHOW EVERY DAY, YOU AND I
HAVE BEEN FRIENDS A LONG TIME
AND YOU’RE STILL TRYING TO PUT
OUT THE FIRES.
YOU GET CALLERS EVERY DAY WHO
BELIEVE THERE WAS SOMETHING
WRONG, IN PARTICULAR, IN THE
MICHIGAN ELECTION, WHERE IT WAS
SUCH A WIDE MARGIN, IT’S BIZARRE
TO DEBATE IT.
DOES THE AUDIT THAT CAME THROUGH
THIS WEEK AND WHAT WE JUST
WATCHED HAPPEN IN THE
IMPEACHMENT, DOES IT CHANGE ANY
OF THAT?
>> YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAD A DUNG
BEETLE MEME YOU COULD PUT IT
OVER ME RIGHT NOW.
DEVIN.
[LAUGHTER]
>> I FEEL LIKE ON A DAILY
BASIS.
YEAH, I TOTALLY GET THAT.
I DON’T THINK THAT THAT AUDIT
RESONATED WITH ANYBODY.
THEY THINK THIS IS CORRUPTED AT
THE CORE.
IF YOU SAY, WELL, HOW COULD WE
HAVE A RECOUNT OF PAPER BALLOTS
AND THEN YOU BELIEVE THAT THE
DOMINION MACHINES WERE
FRAUDULENT?
WELL, THAT’S BECAUSE, THERE WILL
BE A CHANGE OF SUBJECT.
THEY’LL SAY WELL, THOSE WERE
FRAUDULENT ABSENTEE BALLOTS TO
BEGIN WITH.
SO, I DON’T KNOW THAT THAT’S
EVER GOING TO MOVE FORWARD.
THE REAL QUESTION FOR ME IS,
THOSE THAT DIDN’T STAND WITH
PRESIDENT TRUMP AS HE WAS
INVOLVED IN THE BIG LIE, HOW
WILL THEY BE PUNISHED?
HE DOESN’T HAVE TWITTER TO DO
THAT FOR HIM ANYMORE.
>> RIGHT.
>> WILL HE PUT MONEY INTO A
CAMPAIGN AGAINST PETER MEIJER
AND FRED UPTON?
YOU KNOW, HOW WILL HE USE HIS
CONSIDERABLE POLITICAL WEIGHT
GOING FORWARD.
>> HOW CAN THE G.O.P. IN THE
STATE DISTANCE FROM HIM WHEN
HE’S SUCH A POTENT FUNDRAISER.
>> Devin: SO RIGHT.
AND NOLAN, AS WE ZOOM IN A
LITTLE BIT HERE AND LOOK MORE
CLOSELY AT THE MICHIGAN G.O.P.
AND MICHIGAN REPUBLICANS, I NEED
YOU TO EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT’S
GOING ON HERE EXACTLY WHAT WE’RE
WATCHING HAPPEN WITH MIKE
SHIRKEY.
>> WELL, I MEAN, MIKE SHIRKEY IS
WHO HE IS.
HE SAYS HE HAS THROUGHOUT HIS
CAREER SAID A LOT OF THINGS
THAT, YOU KNOW, RAISED A LOT OF
EYEBROWS AND YOU KNOW, I’M NOT
HIS SPOKESMAN, I CAN’T SPEAK FOR
WHAT WAS IN HIS MIND WHEN HE
SAID THAT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS
IS WHO HE IS AND YOU KNOW, HE
APOLOGIZES AND TOOK THE
APOLOGIZE BACK.
I’D AS SOON HIM NOT APOLOGIZE IF
HE DOESN’T MEAN IT. IT WOULD BE
NICE TO HEAR AN EXPLANATION FROM
HIM ABOUT WHAT HE WAS TALKING
ABOUT.
>> Devin: TO THE BROADER
MICHIGAN G.O.P., WE WATCHED THIS
FIGHT WITH LAURA COX AND RON
WISER, WHERE DOES IT LEAVE THE
STATE PARTY RIGHT NOW, NOLAN?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT WHERE
THEY’VE BEEN MANY, MANY TIMES IN
THE PAST AND WHERE THE STATE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS BEEN MANY,
MANY TIMES IN THE PAST.
I MEAN, THEY’RE DIVIDED, ANGRY
AT EACH OTHER, BUT THAT WON’T
LAST BECAUSE BY THE TIME THE NEXT ELECTION ROLLS AROUND
NEXT ELECTION ROLLS AROUND
THEY’LL BE ANGRYIER AT DEMOCRATS
THAN THEMSELVES.
RON WISER IS A MASTERFUL
FUNDRAISER AND SUCCESSFUL PARTY
CHAIRMAN THE LAST TWO GO ROUNDS.
THE REPUBLICAN PARTIES WON BIG
GAINS EACH TIME HE WAS THE PARTY
CHAIR.
I SUSPECT THEY’LL COME TOGETHER
UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP AGAIN.
>> Devin: STEPHEN, AS WE LOOK
TOWARDS BRINGING EVERYBODY BACK
TOGETHER?
DO DEMOCRATS NEED REPUBLICANS TO
FIND A WAY TO GET TOGETHER FIRST
IN ORDER TO DO THAT, BUT WITH
THIS MORE SPLINTERED IF THAT’S
WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING WITH THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY, IS THAT AN
OPPORTUNITY TO GET EVERYBODY
BACK TOGETHER?
>> WELL, I MEAN, I DO THINK
THAT, YOU KNOW, REPUBLICANS FACE A MOMENT OF REAL RECKONING HERE.
A MOMENT OF REAL RECKONING HERE.
YOU KNOW, MIKE SHIRKEY’S ALLY
WITH THE WHITE SUPREMACY GROUPS
AND THE FACE HE PUTS FORWARD TO
THE PUBLIC AND THEN THE FACE HE
PUTS FORWARD TO THE GROUPS IS A
SERIOUS PROBLEM AND THE PARTY IS
NOT GOING TO APPEAL TO THE
SUBURBAN VOTERS THAT THEY LOST
IN THIS LAST ELECTION IF THEY
DON’T CLEAN THAT UP.
THAT’S JUST, I THINK, A FOREGONE
CONCLUSION.
THE OTHER THING THAT THEY’VE GOT
TO CONTEND WITH IS THAT THE MAP
IS NOT GOING TO TILT TO THEIR
ADVANTAGE THIS TIME.
THEY DON’T GET TO DRAW IT.
IT’S GOING TO BE DRAWN BY AN
INDEPENDENT COMMISSION THAT’S
GOING TO TRY TO DRAW IT FAIRLY
AND THAT’S GOING TO RESULT IN
LOSSES BECAUSE OF THE SWITCH
FROM WHAT THEY’VE BEEN DOING FOR
THE LAST TWO CYCLES.
SO, THEY HAVE A BIG HURDLE IN
FRONT OF THEM AND AGAIN, IT’S A
CRISIS OF MORAL CONSCIENCE, I
THINK, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
>> Devin: IT’S INTERESTING, ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT MAYBE WAS A
LITTLE LOST IN THAT RECORDING OF
MIKE SHIRKEY, HE WAS BEING
CHASTISED IN HILLSDALE COUNTY
FOR NOT BEING TOUGH ENOUGH, YOU
KNOW, NOT BEING FAR ENOUGH TO
THE RIGHT WITH GOVERNOR WHITMER.
>> IT’S TRUE.
THAT WAS SORT OF THE PRELUDE,
RIGHT, OF THIS WEEK.
IF YOU’RE WRITING THE BOOK,
WHICH WAS, THIS CENSURE, AND
THEN CAME OUT THIS RECORDING,
AND THUS IS SORT OF THE PERFECT
EXAMPLE OF WHERE REPUBLICANS,
WHETHER IT BE THEIR OWN FAULT OR
NOT, AS STEPHEN SAID, FOR
COZYING UP TO SOME OF THESE
GROUPS, FIND THEMSELVES IN AND
HARKENING BACK TO THE NATIONAL
PERSPECTIVE, IT’S WHAT MITCH
MCCONNELL TRIED TO DO NOT SO HE
WILL REQUEST ENT --
ELOQUENTLY TRYING TO BOTH-SIDES
IT, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO SAY I’M
NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM, BUT
WHAT HE DID WAS DEPLORABLE.
AND THIS IS WHAT YOU FIND MIKE SHIRKEY TRYING TO BALANCE TO DO,
SHIRKEY TRYING TO BALANCE TO DO,
HE’S NOT DOING IT WELL.
HE’S DOING IT INELOQUENTLY.
THERE ARE TWO PRONGS, AS NOLAN
SAID HE SAYS THINGS INARTICULATE
INARTICULATELY, THE SPANKING TO
WHITMER, THE FIST FIGHT TO
WHITMER, AND THE SECOND THING
THE CONTINUATION, HIS BELIEF
THAT JANUARY 6TH WAS A HOAX AND
THAT TO ME IS NOT ARTICULATE OR
SAYING POORLY WORDED STATEMENTS,
THAT AGAIN IS CONTINUING THIS
IDEA.
I MEAN, HE SAID AS MUCH, HE
BELIEVES THE FBI IS GOING TO
COME OUT IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS
AND PROVE THAT WAS ANTIFA OR
GEORGE SOROS OR WHOEVER HE
THINKS IT IS AND I WANT TO
SEPARATE THOSE TWO THINGS FROM
BEING INARTICULATE IN YOUR
STATEMENTS VERSUS PERPETUATING
INSURRECTION.
>> CAN I JUST QUICKLY ADD
SOMETHING TO THAT.
>> 10 SECONDS, GUY.
>> I CAN’T DO IT IN 10 SECONDS,
I TALKED TO MIKE SHIRKEY, HE’S
NOT TALKING ABOUT ANTIFA HE’S
TALKING ABOUT RIGHT WING
EXTREMISTS THAT HE THOUGHT
PRE-PLANNED THE EVENT.
THAT’S THE DIFFERENCE.
>> Devin: I’VE GOT TO GO.
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND