>>> WE'RE BACK, NOW, WITH A SPECIAL LIVE EVENT, FOCUSING ON
THE STATE OF HAZING IN AMERICA. WE GATHERED STUDENTS, PARENTS
AND EXPERTS RIGHT HERE ON OUR PLAZA FOR WHAT WE HOPE WILL BE A
VERY POWERFUL AND TIMELY CONVERSATION.
>> WITH US RIGHT NOW, THE CO-SPONSORS OF AN ANTI-HAZING
BILL, KNOWN PATRICK MEEHAN AND REBECCA FUDGE.
AND THE PIAZZAS, WHOSE SON TIED DURING HAZING AT PENN STATE
UNIVERSITY. AND THEIR LAWYER.
THERE WAS INCIDENT OF ALLEGED HAZING AT LSU LAST WEEK.
WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WITH YOUR SON, TIM.
WAS THIS A SUBJECT YOU TALKED ABOUT OPENLY AND OFTEN IF YOUR
HOME BEFORE YOUR SON WENT OFF TO COLLEGE?
>> NOT REALLY. WE REALLY DIDN'T THINK VERY MUCH
OF EITHER OF OUR BOYS JOINING A FRATERNITY OR HAZING OR ANYTHING
LIKE THAT. IT KIND OF CAME TO US A LITTLE
LATER ON THAT TIM WAS INTERESTED IN JOINING A FRATERNITY.
AND FRANKLY, THAT THOUGHT REALLY WAS NOT A SIGNIFICANT THOUGHT OF
MINE. >> WHEN YOU HEARD HE WAS
INTERESTING TO JOIN A FRATERNITY, DID HAZING COME TO
YOUR MIND EVEN AT THAT POINT? >> IT DID.
BUT WHEN I READ THE TENETS OF THIS FRATERNITY, I FELT BETTER
BECAUSE IT WAS A NONHAZING, NONALCOHOL FRATERNITY.
I THOUGHT, WE'RE GOOD. >> UNFORTUNATELY, WE KNOW THE
AWFUL THINGS THAT TRANSPIRED WITH YOUR SON.
IT'S REALLY UNSPEAKABLE. WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR YOU TO BE
HERE TODAY? WHAT WE'RE ABOUT TO DO TO SIT
DOWN AND HAVE THIS CONVERSATION. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO GROUND
IT IN WHAT YOU ARE HOPING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE.
>> THE LEGISLATION ABOUT HOLDING THE SCHOOLS ACCOUNTABLE.
THE SCHOOLS NEED TO HOLD THE STUDENTS ACCOUNTABLE.
AND THE COURT SYSTEMS NEED TO HOLD THE STUDENTS ACCOUNTABLE,
AS WELL. THE ONLY WAY WE'RE GOING TO GET
CHANGE IS IF WE HAVE REAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND HOPEFULLY
DETERRENTS FROM DOING THIS IN THE FUTURE.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THE BILL IS GOING TO DO IS DEFINE WHAT
HAZING IS.
HOW DO YOU DO THAT? >> SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF INJURY.
THAT'S WHERE YOU REALLY START AND KNOWING -- THESE ARE THE
ELEMENTS, SO TO SPEAK. BUT IT SUGGESTS THAT YOU
UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S SOME RISK ASSOCIATES WITH CERTAIN
ACTIVITIES. AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE
KIND OF LIGHTHEARTED THINGS THAT AREN'T REALLY A THREAT.
>> SHAVING YOUR HEAD. PAINTING THE SCHOOL LOGO ON YOUR
FACE. RUNNING ACROSS THE CAMPUS NAKED.
THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO AWAY WITH.
>> IT IS TO SOME DEGREE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HUMILIATION,
DEGRADATION. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT
MIGHT BE RECKLESS BEHAVIOR. NOT ALWAYS INTENTIONAL.
BUT CERTAINLY RECKLESS WITHOUT REGARD TO A PERSON'S SAFETY OR
MENTAL HEALTH. IT COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EXCESSIVE USE OF ALCOHOL.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SEX ACTS, WHICH ARE VERY OFTEN IN THESE
KIND OF THINGS. BUT WHAT THEY ALSO SAY, IT'S NOT
CONFINED TO SORORITIES AND FRATERNITIES.
PEOPLE IN MARCHING BANDS, CHOIRS, SPORTS ACTIVITIES.
IT IS RAMPANT ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES.
IT HAS TO STOP. >> LET'S BE CLEAR OF WHAT THIS
LEGISLATION DOES. IT DOESN'T OUTLAW HAZING.
IT DOESN'T LOOK TO GOVERN THESE GROUPS.
IT'S THAT UNIVERSITIES SHOULD START REPORTS OF HAZING.
ARE THE UNIVERSITIES TURNING A BLIND EYE?
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE PIAZZAS ON THAT, AS WELL.
>> EXPOSURE, BEHAVIOR, ACCOUNTABLE.
THIS PULLS EVERYBODY INTO THE DIALOGUE.
AND MORE THAN 50% OF THE STUDENTS THAT ARE SUBJECTED TO
HAZING DURING THE COURSE OF THE YEAR, AND A BROAD SPECTRUM OF
ACTIVITIES, NOT JUST FRATERNITIES AND SORORITIES.
IT MAKES THE SCHOOL A PARTNER IN REPORTING ANY INCIDENTS OF
HAZING AND THEN EDUCATING YOUR STUDENT BODY PRIOR TO A SCHOOL
YEAR ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO HAZE AND THE FACT THAT YOU'RE GOING
TO BE ACCOUNTABLE. >> THAT BILL TELLS UNIVERSITIES
AND COLLEGES THEY HAVE TO REPORT ANY HAZING INCIDENTS, IN PART,
AS PART OF THEIR ANNUAL CRIME REPORT.
SO, THAT MAKES IT MORE SIGNIFICANT FOR THE UNIVERSITY.
>> CORRECT. WE'RE BUILDING ON THE CLEARY ACT
THAT ALREADY REPORTS ACTS OF VIOLENCE OR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY ON
A CAMPUS. >> LET'S TAKE THIS TO A PERSONAL
LEVEL FOR A SECOND. I DIDN'T GET TO MEET TIM.
BUT YOU TOLD ME A LOT ABOUT HIM. WHEN WE SAT DOWN AND TALKED.
HE WAS SMART. HE WAS CONFIDENT.
HE WAS WELL-LIKED. AS A PARENT, NOW, I SAY, OKAY.
SO, I THINK I HAVE KIDS WHO ARE ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
HOW CAN I BE SURE THEY'RE GOING TO GET TO COLLEGE AND THEY'RE
GOING TO TRY TO JOIN AN ORGANIZATION.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE WILLING TO STAND UP AND SAY NO.
I DON'T WANT TO JOIN YOUR ORGANIZATION BADLY ENOUGH TO
HAVE YOU PUT ME THROUGH WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT ME THROUGH?
HOW WOULD YOU ANSWER THAT QUESTION?
>> YOUNG KIDS ARE IMPRESSIONABLE.
AND SOMETIMES THEY FEEL PEER PRESSURE.
WE'RE TRYING TO DO THINGS THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
WE'RE TRYING TO DO THINGS THAT WILL BRING AN END TO IT.
WE'RE WORKING WITH THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA TO INTRODUCE NEW
LAWS THAT WILL MAKE THE HAZING PENALTIES STIFFER.
NOT ONLY FOR THE INDIVIDUALS WHO DO IT, BUT ALSO FOR THE
UNIVERSITIES AND ORGANIZATIONS THAT TURN A BLIND EYE TO IT..
>> DON'T YOU THINK THERE'S A FLIPSIDE THAT WE HAVEN'T TALKED
ABOUT. WE HEAR ABOUT A HAZING VICTIM.
WHAT ABOUT THE HAING PERPETRATORS?
AND WHAT KIND OF CONVERSATIONS DO YOU NEED TO HAVE WITH YOUR
CHILDREN THAT SAYS IF YOU SEE SOMETHING WRONG, YOU HAVE TO
STAND UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
>> AS A PARENT, YOU NEED TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH YOUR CHILD
TO SAY IT'S UNACCEPTABLE. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE IS HAZING
ACCEPTABLE. AND TO LET THEM KNOW, ALL OF THE
POTENTIAL RISKS THAT COME ALONG WITH IT.
IN ADDITION TO MORALLY HURTING SOMEBODY AND POTENTIALLY THEM
DYING. >> AND IF SOMEONE STANDS UP AND
OSTRACIZES YOU FOR STANDING UP AGAINST THIS, WELL, THEN --
>> YOU DON'T NEED THEM. >> YOU DON'T NEED THEM IN YOUR
LIFE. LET'S GO TO HODA IN OUR CROWD.
>> IN THIS DAY AND AGE, WHY ON EARTH DOES HAZING EXIST AT THESE
COLLEGES? AND WHY IS IT THAT KIDS WHO ARE
SMART KIDS, WITH LIKE A 3.5 GPA AND ALL THIS STUFF, END UP
SIGNING UP FOR THAT? >> THERE'S RESEARCH THAT WOULD
SUGGEST THAT WE HAVE EVOLVED TO HAZE.
THAT LITERALLY, AS HUMANS GOING THROUGH THE LAST SEVERAL
THOUSAND YEARS, THAT WE LOOK FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO KEEP NEWCOMERS
FROM COMING INTO OUR GROUPS AND EXPLOITING THE STATUS OF OUR
GROUPS. AND THAT'S WHY YOU SEE HAZING SO
MUCH WORSE IN FRATERNITIES AND
VARSITY ATHLETES. THERE'S STATUS BEING IN THOSE
GROUPS. THE GROUPS DON'T WANT TO JUST
GIVE THAT STATUS AWAY. THEY WANT PEOPLE TO SUBJECT THEM
TO DEGRADING TASKS TO BE PART OF THIS GROUP.
>> YOU CAN'T BELIEVE WITH THE DEATHS THAT THIS STILL EXISTS.
>> EXACTLY. THERE'S DIFFERENT MOTIVATIONS.
THAT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND. SOME GROUPS HAZE BECAUSE THEY
WANT TO BRING GROUPS TOGETHER. OFTEN TIMES WE SEE THE ABUSE OF
POWER. WE SEE PEOPLE THAT I CAN MAKE
YOU DO ANYTHING TO GET IT. I CAN MAKE YOU DRINK ALCOHOL
UNTIL YOU PASS OUT. AND THEY ABUSE THAT POWER.
WE NEED TO CURB THAT POWER DIFFERENTIAL THAT'S INHERENT.
>> YOU GET TOGETHER IN THESE GROUPS, WHETHER IT'S A MARCHING
BAND OR AN ATHLETIC ORGANIZATION OR GREEK LIFE.
AND SOMETIMES THE EXISTING MEMBERS WILL SAY TO PLEDGES,
WELL, I DID THIS. I DID THIS.
AND THAT'S HOW I'M A PART OF THIS GROUP.
WHY WON'T YOU DO IT? THE PRESSURE THEY EXERT ON THESE
YOUNG MINDS IS SUBSTANTIAL. >> AS I SAID, YOUNG PEOPLE ARE
IMPRESSIONABLE. AND I HAVE NO DOUBT THERE ARE
PEOPLE THAT PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO DO IT BUT FEEL THE PRESSURE
THEY HAVE TO. THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO PUT AN
END TO. WE NEED TO PUT AN END TO ALL OF
THIS. WE NEED TO BREAK THAT TREND.
>> IT'S A CYCLE OF ABUSE. >> AND BEING INVOLVED IN THESE
ORGANIZATIONS, AS WELL. PEOPLE LOOK AT HOW DO I BENEFIT
BY BEING A PART OF THIS? HOW AM I ELEVATED BEING ON MY
CAMPUS? HOW DO I BUILD A NETWORK OF
PEOPLE TO HELP ME AS I GO FURTHER IN MY CAREER?
OR MY EDUCATION? THERE'S SOME ADVANTAGES, AS
WELL. PEOPLE LOOK AT THAT AND THEY
WEIGH WHAT -- IS IT SO BAD? BUT NOBODY SHOULD SEND THEIR KID
TO SCHOOL AND THEY NOT COME HOME.
THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.
>> TOM, I MEAN, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A CRIMINAL ASPECT TO
THIS IN SOME CASES. YOU REPRESENT THE PIAZZAS.
THERE'S A CRIMINAL CASE UNFOLDING THERE.
IS ENOUGH BEING DONE TO PROSECUTE AND TO PURSUE
INCIDENTS OF HAZING THAT CROSS INTO THAT LINE?
>> IF THERE IS NOT AN AGGRESSIVE POSTURE TOWARDS THE PROSECUTION
OF WHAT IS A CRIME IN MOST STATES, THERE WILL NOT BE
DETERRENTS. THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE SEE AND
WHAT WE RECOGNIZE. THERE'S A CULTURE OF ABUSE.
AND THERE'S A CULTURE OF RECIDIVISM THAT WE HAVE HERE.
AND SOMEONE HAS TO TRY TO BREAK IT.
THAT'S WHAT UNIVERSITIES ARE GRAPPLING WITH.
AND THAT'S WHAT THE PIAZZAS ARE GRAPPLING WITH, AS WELL.
>> HODA? >> GUYS, I HAVE STUART.
YOU WANT TO STAND UP, SIR? HE HAS TRIPLETS, THREE KIDS ALL
GETTING READY TO GO TO COLLEGE. YOU HAVE DISCUSSED GREEK LIFE.
YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE
PIAZZAS. ARE THERE WARNING SIGNS THAT
PARENTS OR STUDENTS CAN PICK UP ONLY, BEFORE INITIATIONS ABOUT
INDIVIDUAL FRATERNITIES THAT WOULD INDICATE THERE'S SOMETHING
DANGEROUS INVOLVED IN THEIR INITIATION?
>> WE CERTAINLY HAD NO WARNING SIGNS.
AS MY WIFE SAID, SHE LOOKED UP THIS FRATERNITY.
IT SEEMED TO BE A MODEL FRATERNITY.
BUT WHAT WAS GOING ON INSIDE ITS DOORS WAS SOMETHING COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT. THE MESSAGE TO THE CHILDREN IS,
IF IT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT, IF IT
DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT, GET OUT. >> I ALSO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.
YOU ASK A VERY GOOD QUESTION. BECAUSE WE HAVE RITUALS.
IT SHOULDN'T BE ON THE STUDENT WHO IS LOOKING TO JOIN SOMETHING
TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT MIGHT BE ABOUT.
THESE ORGANIZATIONS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO REVISIT WHAT
THE RITUALS ARE ABOUT. AND MAKE SURE AHEAD OF TIME THAT
THEY'RE REMOVING THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT CREATE THE
SUBSTANTIAL RISK OF HARM OR DEGRADATION AND OTHER THINGS.
I THINK THIS SENDS A SIGNAL AS MUCH TO THE FRATERNITY COUNCILS
AND TO THE UNIVERSITIES, TO REVISIT THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE
BEEN DOING TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT HARMFUL.
>> ANOTHER ASPECT OF THIS. AND KATE SNOW TOUCHED ON THIS IN
HER PIECE EARLIER IN THE SHOW. SOMETIMES UNIVERSITIES AND
COLLEGES, WHEN THEY OUTLAW THESE THINGS, THEY'RE DRIVEN
UNDERGROUND. AND AT THAT POINT, YOU GET A
PRACTICE THAT GETS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS BECAUSE IT'S SO FAR
FROM THE EYES OF AUTHORITIES, THAT IT GOES FURTHER.
HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT? >> I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE
THINGS. THE UNIVERSITY HAS TO HAVE
POLICIES IN PLACE THAT ARE SO STRICT THAT PEOPLE KNOW IF I GET
CAUGHT DOING THIS, I COULD BE EXPELLED, I COULD BE PROSECUTED.
AND I THINK THAT ALSO, THE ORGANIZATIONS, I'M PART OF A
SORORITY. WE MAKE SURE OUR POLICIES ARE SO
CLEAR, WE MAKE SIGNS SAYING I WILL NOT BE HAZED.
WE MAKE OUR MEMBERSHIP SAYING I WILL NOT HAZE, SO WE HAVE THE
ABILITY TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHATEVER THEY DO.
AND MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF THEM WHEN THEY DO IT.
AND I THINK WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER TO MAKEAKE SURE EVERYB
IS ON THE SAME PAGE. >> AND THERE'S A UNIVERSAL
PRINCIPLE HERE. UNIVERSITIES MUST OWN THIS
PROBLEM. UNIVERSITIES CANNOT WALK AWAY
FROM IT. >> I WANT TO GET TO HODA WHO HAS
ANOTHER QUESTION. >> YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND STAND
UP. A SOPHOMORE AT RUTGERS.
HE'S A MEMBER OF A FRATERNITY. >> I PLEDGED A FRATERNITY LAST
AND I WAS FORTUNATE TO HAVE AN AWESOME EXPERIENCE.
BUT FOR MY FRIENDS, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME EXPERIENCE I DID.
THAT BEING SAID, I'M HAPPY WE'RE TAKING A STEP IN THE RIGHT
DIRECTION TO ADDRESS THE HAZING EPIDEMIC.
MY QUESTION IS REGARD TO THE REACH ACT.
IT WILL REACH OUT TO UNIVERSITIES TO DOCUMENT HAZING
AS THEIR ANNUAL CRIME REPORT. HOW DO YOU PLAN TO DOCUMENT AND
ACCOUNT FOR ALL THE HAZING THAT'S NOT REPORTED?
>> GOOD QUESTION. >> UNFORTUNATELY, A LOT OF
PEOPLE THAT GO TO COLLEGE THINKING HAZING IS NORMAL.
THEY DON'T THINK THEY'VE BEEN HAZED.
THAT'S WHY THE EDUCATION COMPONENT OF THIS BILL IS GOING
TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN THEY GO TO A COLLEGE CAMPUS, THAT
COLLEGE IS GOING TO TELL THEM WHAT HAZING IS, INSTRUCT THEM
HOW TO REPORT IT, WHERE TO REPORT IT, AND WHAT THEIR
EXPECTATIONS SHOULD BE AFTER THEY REPORT IT.
I THINK IF PEOPLE BELIEVE SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN, THEY WILL
REPORT IT. MOST PEOPLE THINK, NOTHING IS
GOING TO HAPPEN IF I REPORT IT AND I DON'T KNOW WHO TO REPORT
IT TO, SO THEY DON'T. I THINK IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW
SERIOUS THIS IS, AND THEY CAN GET SOME REAL REDRESS, THEY WILL
REPORT IT. >> WE HAVE A MOLE WITH THE CLE R
REACT, THAT'S DEMONSTRATED AND WORKING, WITH SEXUAL VIOLENCE ON
CAMPUSES. THERE'S A PATTERN WITH EDUCATION
AND REPORTING THAT'S ALREADY PROVEN TO WORK ON COLLEGE
CAMPUSES. >> JIM AND EVELYN, IN THE 35, 40
SECONDS WE HAVE LEFT, LEAVE PEOPLE WATCHING WITH ONE PIECE
OF ADVICE. THE PARENTS AT HOME, WHO JUST
SENT THEIR KIDS OFF TO COLLEGE OR ARE ABOUT TO IN THE COMING
YEARS? >> TALK TO YOUR KIDS.
BE OPEN AND HONEST. AND CONVINCE THEM THAT THEY CAN
TELL YOU ANYTHING, SO THAT THEY CAN TELL YOU, IF THEY'RE IN A
BAD SITUATION. >> JUST MAKE SURE THEY
UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED TO TIM AND THE MOST RECENT SITUATION.
THEY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT IT. >> IT CAN HAPPEN TO THEM.
>> REALLY APPRECIATE YOU COMING. AND CONTINUING TO SHARE YOUR
STORY. AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE WITH YOUR
STORY. AND THANKS FOR THE BILL YOU'RE
PROPOSING. WE THINK IT WILL MAKE A HUGE
DIFFERENCE, AS WELL. >> WE WANT TO KEEP THIS
CONVERSATION GOING ONLINE. WE H