THE POLICE OFFICER, BETTY SHELBY, WHO SHOT AND KILLED A
MAN IN TULSA, OKLAHOMA, HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH FIRST THREE
MANSLAUGHTER ACCORDING TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY.
AND ACCORDING
TO THE TULSA COUNTY INVESTIGATOR INVESTIGATING THE CASE, SHELBY
--
FOR THOSE OF YOU WONDERING WHAT KIND OF CONSEQUENCES COME
ALONG WITH A FIRST DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE,
ACCORDING TO THE HEAVY --
SO JUST LIKE WHAT WE ARE GOING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT, AND HAVE
COMPLAINED ABOUT, WITH BANKERS, THIS IS ONE WAY YOU MAKE A
DIFFERENCE.
YOU QUICKLY REACT AND YOU PROSECUTE COPS WHEN
THERE IS AN ABILITY TO DO SO.
AND I IMAGINE AT SOME POINT COPS
WILL THINK, I DON'T REALLY WANT TO GO TO PRISON, I'M SURE
SOMEBODY IS ROLLING ON THIS.
YOU WOULD THINK THAT, RIGHT?
I WAS SEEING MICHAEL WOOD
TWEETING, A COP FROM BOTH MORE, HE'S BEEN ON THE SHOW.
HE DISAGREES WITH THAT, WHICH BLEW ME AWAY.
HE'S LIKE, THAT WOULDN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
HE WAS HAVING A TWITTER CONVERSATION WITH JORDAN.
THAT PROSECUTING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.
AND THEY GOT INTO A HEATED DEBATE OVER IT.
WHY DID HE SAY IT WOULDN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
DIDN'T GIVE THAT MUCH, HE JUST SAID I'M A SPECIALIST IN THIS,
I'VE STUDIED THIS MY WHOLE LIFE, THAT WON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
THAT MAY BE.
CENK AND I USED TO ARGUE WAY BACK ABOUT THE
DEATH PENALTY -- AND I LIKE THIS BECAUSE THIS IS ONE WHERE I KNOW
I WAS RIGHT, BUT YOU USED TO SAY YOU HEARD THE EVIDENCE ABOUT A
DETERRENT AND YOU WOULD BE LIKE, YEAH, BUT IF THAT DETERRENT WERE
QUICK THE STATISTICS WOULD FLIP AND IT WOULD BE EFFECTIVE.
AND I
WOULD SAY I DON'T THINK PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE OF A VIOLENT CRIME
THICK ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES, SO MAY BE WHAT MICHAEL WOOD IS
SAYING, RIGHT OR WRONG, IS THAT'S TOO FAR AHEAD TO THINK
WHEN YOUR EMOTIONS ARE HEATED.
IT'S COUNTERINTUITIVE TO THINK THAT PROSECUTING THEM
QUICKLY WOULDN'T CHANGE THE CULTURE.
REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT CHANGES THE CULTURE, FOR
THE PERSON WHO IS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING IN RETURN, SOME
JUSTICE, PROSECUTING AND FINDING SOMEONE GUILTY IN A COURT OF
LAW AT LEAST MAKE ME FEEL BETTER ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION.
MICHAEL WOOD IS A GREAT GUY, I'VE INTERVIEWED HIM, HE TELLS
US HOW COPS WORK IN BALTIMORE AND ACROSS THE NATION, HE HAD
THAT GREAT OPENING LINE, DID YOU THINK BLACK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
LYING FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS ABOUT THE COPS?
AND HE'S A WHITE
GUY.
CHECK OUT THE INTERVIEW, WE COULD TALK TO HIM AGAIN TO GET
HIS FULL THOUGHTS, BUT HE WAS SAYING IF YOU GOT MILITARY
TRAINING, YOU PAUSE A LOT MORE.
IF YOU GET COP TRAINING YOU
DON'T PAUSE AS MUCH.
AND I LATER READ THAT IN A DIFFERENT ARTICLE
FROM SOMEONE WHO GOT POLICE TRAINING -- IT WAS THE HERO COP
WHO DID NOT SHOOT IN AN INSTANCE TWO WEEKS AGO, I DID THAT STORY,
BECAUSE HE HAD ALSO GOT MILITARY TRAINING AND HE KNEW, LET'S
ASSESS THE SITUATION.
BECAUSE IF YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF
AFGHANISTAN ANYWHERE SHOOTING EVERYBODY, THEY WILL START
SHOOTING BACK AND YOU HAVE A MESS AND THAT'S NOT HOW YOU
HANDLE THINGS.
AND THAT WAS SUCH A TRAGIC STORY, HE DIDN'T SHOOT,
THE OTHER TWO COPS COME, THEY SHOOT, THEY KILL THE GUY THEY
DIDN'T HAVE TO KILL, IT TURNS OUT THE GUY HAD A MENTAL ISSUE
AND HIS GUN WASN'T LOADED, THEN THEY FIRE THE GOOD GUY For NOT
SHOOTING.
IT WAS UNBELIEVABLE.
SO IF YOU'VE GOT THE WRONG
TRAINING, MAYBE MICHAEL IS SAYING IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER
WHAT HAPPENS LATER BECAUSE YOU WILL REACT LIKE THIS, AND THAT'S
THE CORE OF THE PROBLEM.
AND IN THIS CASE, I'M GLAD THERE IS
JUSTICE COMING.
THIS MIGHT COME ACROSS IS REALLY WEIRD, BUT I
FEEL BAD FOR EVERYBODY IN THIS STORY, INCLUDING BETTY SHELBY,
THE OFFICER.
I SHOULDN'T FEEL BAD FOR, SHE 100% DID THE WRONG
THING AS FAR AS WE CAN TELL FROM THE VIDEO, LIKE JIMMY SAID, IN
THE CASE OF CHARLOTTE, TAKE IT EASY.
HE'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE,
YOU CAN PUT A COP CAR ON THE OTHER SIDE, TAKE YOUR TIME --
WHAT SHE DID WAS WRONG AND NOW SHE'S BEING CHARGED WITH
MANSLAUGHTER.
BUT I DON'T REVEL IN THAT, IT'S NOT LIKE, LET'S GO
GET BETTY SHELBY.
AND AFTER SHE SHOT HIM SHE SOUNDED PANICKED,
LIKE, SHOTS FIRED!
RIGHT?
I FELT LESS BAD FOR HER AS I READ INTO
THE STORY AND IT TURNS OUT SHE HAD BEEN ARGUING WITH HIM ALL
ALONG AND WAS REALLY MAD THAT HE WASN'T FOLLOWING ORDERS,
THEN I WAS LIKE, FOR GOD'S SAKE, DON'T TELL ME YOU SHOT THE
GUY BECAUSE HE DISRESPECTED YOU A LITTLE BIT, OR YOU
THOUGHT HE DISRESPECTED YOU BUT IN FACT HE WAS INCOHERENT
AND PROBABLY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU WERE SAYING.
THE OTHER OFFICER SHOT HIM WITH A TASER AT THE SAME TIME.
THERE WERE 1000 OTHER OPTIONS.
MY POINT IS GENERALLY THAT I'M
NOT LOOKING FOR VENGEANCE AGAINST BETTY SHELBY, WHAT I'M
LOOKING TO DO IS FIX THE PROBLEM.
FOR GOD'S SAKE, MAKE
SURE THEY ARE NOT SHOOTING AS A FIRST OPTION, MAKE SURE THEY ARE
SHOOTING AS A LAST, LAST, LAST OPTION.
MICHAEL WOOD IS PROBABLY RIGHT TO SOME EXTENT AND OBVIOUSLY TO
BRETT'S POINT JUSTICE IS SATISFYING BECAUSE IT'S SOME
SENSE OF JUSTICE, BUT THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT MERELY
PROSECUTING PEOPLE AFTERWARDS ISN'T GOING TO MAKE A HUGE
DIFFERENCE, YOU HAVE TO BE TRAINED TO HANDLE THAT SITUATION
DIFFERENTLY.
AND THAT MEANS NOT DECIDED BY FOUR GUYS WHO THE
CLOSEST RELATIONSHIP THEY HAVE TO A COP IS THAT THEY KNOW JIMMY
AND JIMMY'S DAD WAS A COP -- OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A JOB FOR --
THIS IS WHERE PRESIDENTIAL PANELS WITH AUTHORITY MATTER.
YOU BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER, YOU LEARN, YOU STUDY, AND YOU FORCE
IT DOWN EVERY POLICE AGENCY'S THROAT WITH THE FULL POWER OF
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
YOU DON'T LET THEM SAY, WE DON'T DO
THINGS LIKE THAT IN TENNESSEE.
ALL USE TENNESSEE AS AN EXAMPLE.
YOU DON'T LET JOE ARPAIO SAY WE HAVE OUR OWN TRAINING HERE, IT
WORKS FINE.
YOU FORCE THEM TO DO IT, YOU WITHHOLD FEDERAL FUNDS
AND MAKE THAT HURT.
AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN 20 YEARS FROM NOW HOPEFULLY WE
ARE KILLING SIGNIFICANTLY LESS INNOCENT PEOPLE.
ONE THING ABOUT THAT, YOU FELT SORRY FOR HER AND THEN YOU
FOUND OUT SHE WAS ARGUING -- I ALSO FOUND OUT FROM SHAWN KING'S
REPORTING THAT SHE HAD A MEDICAL BAG IN HER TRUNK, SHE DIDN'T DO
ANYTHING TO HELP HIM, SHE JUST LET HIM LIE THERE.
ANYONE WHO SAW MY REACTION TO THE VIDEO THE DAY IT CAME OUT
KNOWS HOW ANGRY I WAS, AND THE THING I GOT MOST ANGRY ABOUT IS,
FOR GOD'S SAKE, YOU LET HIM LAY THERE FOR MINUTES ON AND AND
DIDN'T HELP HIM, HE'S BLEEDING OUT, AND AFTER YOU SHOT HIM AT
LEAST BE HUMAN FOR A SECOND, STOP WORRYING ABOUT YOURSELF AND
WORRY ABOUT THE GUY BLEEDING TO DEATH ON THE GROUND.
SO IN FACT
I WILL NOW GET TOUGHER ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE AND SAY THEY
SHOULD CONSIDER CHARGES AGAINST THE THREE COPS WHO DIDN'T DO
ANYTHING TO HELP THE DYING MAN.
BECAUSE WE ALSO NEED TO IMPRESS
UPON THE COPS -- I'M NOT SAYING ARREST THEM, AT LEAST HAVE
DISCIPLINARY ACTION.
WHEN SOMEONE IS DYING, YOU ARE A COP,
YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO HELP THEM.
EVEN IF YOU WERE IN A
CONFRONTATION WITH THEM.
IF YOU ARE A COP AND YOU ARE A FIRST RESPONDER AND YOU ARE
TRAINED IN FIRST AID, THIS IS STILL A MEDICAL EMERGENCY, DO
SOMETHING.
A LOT OF THE PROTOCOLS I WAS RESEARCHING SAID
THAT THE PERSON WHO SHOT IT JUST NEEDS TO STEP BACK, GO OVER
THERE, WHEN THE SUPERVISOR SHOWS UP GIVE THEM YOUR GUN, AND THEN
YOU NEED TO GO TO THE LAB TO DO TOXICOLOGY REPORTS.
THAT'S FINE, BUT THERE WERE FOUR COPS THERE, SOMEBODY STOP
THE BLEEDING.
I SAW A BRITISH WEBSITE THAT SAID THE FIRST THING YOU DO AS A
POLICE OFFICER AFTER YOU SHOOT SOMEONE IS ADMINISTER FIRST AID.
THAT'S WHY A LOT LESS PEOPLE DIE IN EUROPE BECAUSE THE COPS
ARE TRAINED RIGHT, THEY ARE TRAINED NOT TO SHOOT AT FIRST
SIGHT.
IN FACT AS A LAST RESORT, YOU ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO SHOOT
IF YOU ARE FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO BE SHOT.
WHICH
IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT STANDARD.
HERE IN AMERICA MOST OF THE
POLICE DEPARTMENT ARE, THERE IS A THREAT, PUT IT DOWN.
BY THE
WAY, CREDIT AND DISCREDIT TO OKLAHOMA, THEY HAVE ONE OF THE
WORST SHOOTING BY COPS RATE PER CAPITA, THERE COPS SHOOT UNARMED
MEN AND CIVILIANS AT A GREATER RATE, I THINK THEY CAME IN SIXTH
LAST YEAR IN THE COUNTRY OUT OF 50, OBVIOUSLY, AND FOURTH THIS
YEAR, SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
YOU CAN GO BACK AND WATCH
THE VIDEO FROM EARLIER IN THE WEEK TO GET THE EXACT NUMBERS.
BUT ON THE OTHER HAND TO THEIR CREDIT THEY TOOK QUICK ACTION
HERE, AND I REMEMBER COVERING THE STORY WHERE RESERVE OFFICER
ROBERT BATES HAD SHOT ERIC HARRIS, HE WAS 73 YEARS OLD AND
HE LIKED TO PLAY COP, HE THOUGHT HE WAS USING HIS TASER BUT
INSTEAD HE USED HIS GUN AND KILLED A GUY.
AND THERE WAS A
LOT OF, COME ON, HE IS AN OLD TIMER AND HE WAS HAVING FUN,
TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING -- NO, THEY PROSECUTED HIM FOR
MANSLAUGHTER, HE GOT FOUR YEARS IN PRISON.
DID HE?
HE DID, SO CREDIT TO OKLAHOMA.
THEY DO PROSECUTE THIS.
REMEMBER HE WAS GOING TO GO ON A VACATION TO THE BAHAMAS
AFTERWARDS?
BECAUSE HE WAS WEALTHY.
WELL, IT WAS A STRESSFUL DAY.
WAS HE WAS FOUND GUILTY AND GOT THE MAX FOR THAT CRIME.
YOU REMEMBER WHEN HE SHOT THAT GUY AND WAS LAYING THERE,
HE GOES I CAN'T BREATHE -- REMEMBER WHAT THE OTHER COP
SAID?
HE SAID FUCK YOUR BREATH.
AS THE GUY WAS DYING.