ANXIETY. GOOD EVENING, I AM KATY TUR IN
FOR CHUCK TODD.
WELCOME TO "MTP DAILY."
WE BEGIN WITH EXCLUSIVE
REPORTING FROM NBC NEWS THAT
PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS FOR MONTHS,
FOR MONTHS BEEN ERJURGING THEM T
REINSTATE A LARGE SCALE FAMILY
SEPARATION POLICY AT THE BORDER,
ACCORDING TO THREE OFFICIALS
WITH KNOWLEDGE OF MEETINGS AT
THE WHITE HOUSE.
A MAJOR IMPEDIMENT TO
REINSTATING THAT POLICY WHICH
WAS AN UNMITIGATED POLITICAL
DISASTER FOR THE WHITE HOUSE
LAST YEAR IS GONE.
SECRETARY NIELSON IS OUT AT DHS.
SO IS NEARLY EVERYONE ELSE AT
DHS.
DHS.
MORE ON THAT IN A MOMENT. AND SECRETARY KIRSTJEN NIELSON
THAT RESIGNED YESTERDAY WASNT
OPPOSED TO ANOTHER ROUND OF
FAMILY SEPARATIONS.
FAMILY SEPARATIONS. "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTS THE
PRESIDENT WANTED HER TO CLOSE
PORTS OF ENTRY, STOP ACCEPTING
ASYLUM SEEKERS TOO, BUT SHE REFUSED.EEKERS TOO, BUT SHE
REFUSED.
YET YOU COULD ARGUE THAT SHES
THE MOST AGGRESSIVE HOMELAND
SECURITY CHIEF IN THE
DEPARTMENTS HISTORY TO
CRACKDOWN ON IMMIGRATION.
BUT THAT APPARENTLY WAS NOT ENOUGH FOR THE PRESIDENT.OT
ENOUGH FOR THE PRESIDENT. HER DISMISSAL COMES AS THE
ADMINISTRATION IS SCRAMBLING TO
ADDRESS A SURGE OF MIGRANT
FAMILIES AT THE BORDER AS THE
PRESIDENT BEGINS TO RAMP UP HIS 2020 CAMPAIGN WITH IMMIGRATIONS
2020 CAMPAIGN WITH IMMIGRATION AS A MAJOR FOCUS.
BUT BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT THE
POLITICS, WHICH WE WILL, DONT WORRY, WE SHOULD NOT LOSE SIGHT
HOW THE AGENCY DESIGNED TO
PREVENT ANOTHER 9/11 STYLE
ATTACK IS AN ABSOLUTE MESS UNDER
THIS PRESIDENT.
THIS PRESIDENT.
WHEN NIELSON LEAVES WEDNESDAY,
THERES NO CONFIRMED SECRETARY
AT THE AGENCY, NO CONFIRMED CBP
COMMISSIONER, NO CONFIRMED
DEPUTY SECRETARY.
THE PRESIDENT IS CONSIDERING REMOVING THE ACTING DEPUTYNG
REMOVING THE ACTING DEPUTY SECRETARY, ACCORDING TO THREE
ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS.
ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS. THERES NO CONFIRMED HEAD OF
ICE.
ICE.
NO CONFIRMED INSPECTOR GENERAL. NO CONFIRMED FEMA ADMINISTRATOR.
AND THIS AFTERNOON, THE HEAD OF
SECRET SERVICE, WHICH OPERATES
UNDER DHS RESIGNED UNDER
PRESSURE.
TO GET INTO THAT, BRING IN JULIA
AINSLEY, NATIONAL SECURITY AND
JUSTICE REPORTER WITH NBC NEWS.
SHE BROKE THE BIG STORY ABOUT
THE PRESIDENTS RENEWED PUSH ON
FAMILY SEPARATIONS.
JACOB SOBOROFF, HE WAS ON THE
FAMILY SEPARATION STORY PRETTY
MUCH BEFORE ANYONE ELSE, AND
JOHN SANDWIG FROM CUSTOMS
ENFORCEMENT UNDER PRESIDENT
OBAMA.
JULIA, WAS KIRSTJEN NIELSON DISMISSED BECAUSE HE WANTS MORE
FAMILIES SEPARATED?
FAMILIES SEPARATED? >> THATS RIGHT.
BASICALLY, KATY, WHEN THE
PRESIDENT SAW NUMBERS INCREASE OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTSEASE
OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS COMING ACROSS THE BORDER, HE
WANTED STRONG POLICIES TO COME
OUT.
WHAT HE HAD IN HIS BACK POCKET FROM THE SUMMER WAS POLICY OFT
FROM THE SUMMER WAS POLICY OF SEPARATING FAMILIES.
SEPARATING FAMILIES. SHE SAID NO, YOU CANT DO THAT.
DIDNT OPPOSE IT ON MORAL
GROUNDS, ON LEGAL, LOGISTICAL
GROUNDS.
THEY DIDNT HAVE SPACE TO HOLD
PEOPLE.
IF THEY WERE GOING TO HOLD
PEOPLE IN MASS SCALE, THEY HAD
TO GET AROUND COURT DECISIONS
THAT SAY YOU HAVE TO REUNIFY THE
FAMILY SEPARATED.
THE PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE TO UNDO HIS OWN EXECUTIVE ACTION THATNDO
HIS OWN EXECUTIVE ACTION THAT ENDED FAMILY SEPARATION LAST
SUMMER.
FOR ALL THESE REASONS SHE LAID
OUT, IT DIDNT MAKE SENSE.
SHE WENT A NUMBER OF OTHER
ROUTES.
SHE INCREASED THE NUMBER OF
BORDER AGENTS AT THE BORDER TO ENFORCE BORDER OPERATIONS.R TO
ENFORCE BORDER OPERATIONS. WE KNOW SHE PROPOSED LEGISLATION
THAT WOULD ALLOW CBP TO DEPORT CHILDREN MORE QUICKLY.O DEPORT
CHILDREN MORE QUICKLY.
WE KNOW SHE WAS ABLE TO SEND MORE ASYLUM SEEKERS TO MEXICO TO
WAIT.
WAIT.
IT IS NOT LIKE SHE WAS A SOFT LINER ON IMMIGRATION BY ANYFT
LINER ON IMMIGRATION BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.
HOWEVER, HER PREDECESSOR IS WILLING TO GO FURTHER THAN SHE
WAS, AND THATS WHY WE
UNDERSTAND HE WAS MORE
INGRATIATED WITH THE WHITE HOUSE
THAN SHE WAS, AND WHAT LED TO
HER OUSTING YESTERDAY.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT HE SEES A WAY
AROUND THIS.
HE THINKS FAMILY SEPARATION SHOULD STILL BE ON THE TABLE AS
AN OPTION IF YOU CAN GET PARENTS
A CHOICE BETWEEN BEING DETAINED
WITH CHILDREN LONG PERIODS OF
TIME OR SEPARATING.
>> HOLD ON.
DOES THAT MEAN YOU GET AROUND
THE LEGAL HURDLES HERE? JULIA, YOU LAID OUT REPORTING,
BEARS REPEATING, FEDERAL COURT
ORDERS PROHIBIT THEM FROM
REINSTATING THE POLICY, AND IT WOULD BE REVERSING HIS OWND IT
WOULD BE REVERSING HIS OWN EXECUTIVE ORDER.
EXECUTIVE ORDER. DOES HE BELIEVE GIVING PARENTS
THE CHOICE GETS AROUND THOSE
ORDERS OR DOES HE WANT SOMEONE
IN CHARGE THAT WILL BREAK THE
LAW?
>> Reporter: I THINK WHATEVER
THEY DO WOULD BE A SUIT.
YOU COULD BRING ANOTHER CLASS
ACTION LAWSUIT.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE LEGAL
VERY SMALL ROUTE THEYRE TRYING
TO TAKE HERE, AND THAT THIS
SUMMER THE JUDGE OVERSEEING THE CASE THAT SAID ALL OF THENG THE
CASE THAT SAID ALL OF THE CHILDREN HAD TO BE REUNIFIED, HE
SAID OKAY, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND
HOLD CHILDREN FOR LONGER THAN 20
DAYS, IN DEFIANCE OF ANOTHER ORDER IF IT MEANS REUNIFYING
THEM, IT IS WHAT THEY HAD TO DO
TO MATCH THEM WITH CHILDREN
BEFORE THEY WERE DEPORTED.
WE COVERED THIS UP AND DOWN.
THE JUDGE AGREED TO THAT FOR THE
PURPOSE OF REUNIFICATION.
NOW IT SEEMS THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION MIGHT BE TRYING
TO USE THAT LOGIC TO SAY LOOK, THE ACLU IS ON BOARD, THE JUDGE
CALLING FOR FAMILY REUNIFICATION
WAS ON BOARD WITH THIS.
LETS HOLD FAMILIES TOGETHER AND
THEY HAVE THE CHOICE BETWEEN
BEING APART OR HELD INDEFINITELY.R HELD
INDEFINITELY.
IT DOESNT CHANGE THE FACT
THERES THE OTHER SETTLEMENT
CARRIED ON TWO DECADES, OVER TWO
DECADES, SAYS YOU CANT HOLD CHILDREN LONGER THAN 20 DAYS.
I THINK YOU WOULD SEE TWO
JUDGES DECISIONS CLASHING
TOGETHER.
IT IS NOT A PATH NIELSEN WANTED
TO TAKE BUT ONE HE IS WILLING TO
EXPLORE.
>> WHAT FAMILY MEMBERS OR
PARENTS WOULD CHOOSE TO BE
SEPARATED FROM THEIR KIDS?
>> I CANT BELIEVE WE WOULD GET
TO THE POINT WERE FORCING
PARENTS TO MAKE THIS KIND OF DECISION.O MAKE THIS KIND OF
DECISION.
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THE SAME
COURT CASE THAT CAME OUT THERE
ARE STILL CHILDREN SEPARATED
FROM THEIR PARENTS. THE POLICY WAS SO CRUEL.
THE WAY IT WAS IMPLEMENTED WAS
POORLY EXECUTED.
POORLY EXECUTED. WE DIDNT KNOW WHERE THE PARENTS
WERE, DEPUTY KNOWIDNT KNOW WHER CHILDREN WERE.NOWIDNT KNOW WHER
CHILDREN WERE.
TO RETURN TO IT IS APPALLING. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS AT THENG.
LOOK AT THE NUMBERS AT THE BORDER, IT DIDNT HAVE IMPACT.
THERES NO EVIDENCE IT DETERRED
ANY INDIVIDUALS FROM COMING.
WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT ON
THE SHOW, THERES A SIMPLE WAY
OF DEALING WITH THE PROBLEM.
FLOOD THE ZONE WITH THE RULE OF LAW.D THE ZONE WITH THE RULE OF
LAW.
PUT IN PLACE RESOURCES TO PROCESS CASES QUICKLY, DONT CUT
OFF AID TO CENTRAL AMERICA WHERE
PUSH FACTORS ARE DRIVING PEOPLE
TO MAKE THE ARDUOUS JOURNEY NORTH.E THE ARDUOUS JOURNEY
NORTH.
I HOPE THIS REPORTING, THAT COOLER HEADS PREVAIL AND THE
ADMINISTRATION DOES WHAT IT
SHOULD DO, WHICH IS ENFORCE
CURRENT LAWS.
CURRENT LAWS.
>> THE PRESIDENT BELIEVES THIS
IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE DETERRENTS
POLICY.
BASICALLY THE NUMBERS FOR
ARRESTS FOR THOSE CROSSING THE
BORDER WERE BASICALLY UNCHANGED BETWEEN MAY AND JUNE OF 2018GED
BETWEEN MAY AND JUNE OF 2018 WHILE THE SEPARATION POLICY WAS
IN PLACE.
WHAT DID YOU SEE DOWN THERE? >> IT IS ABSURD, KATY, TO THINK
REBOOTING THAT FAMILY SEPARATION
POLICY WOULD BE AN EFFECTIVE
DETERRENT.
I WAS THERE INSIDE THE PROCESSING STATION THAT DAY, SAW
WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE TO TAKE
MOTHERS AND FATHERS AWAY FROM
BABIES, PUT THEM ON THE FLOOR
UNDER MYLAR BLANKETS AND WATCHED
ON A WATCH TOWER.
THIS IS HAND OUT FOOTAGE FROM
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.
PRESIDENT TRUMP KNOWS THAT
FAMILY SEPARATION IS NOT AN
EFFECTIVE DETERRENT.
PRESIDENT TRUMP KNOWS THAT DETERRENCE IS NOT AN EFFECTIVE
STRATEGY IN GENERAL.
THE ONLY THING THAT HAPPENED OUT
OF FAMILY SEPARATIONS, MORE
FAMILIES, NOT THAT THEY STOPPED
COMING, THEY WENT TO MORE
DANGEROUS, DEADLY LOCATIONS TO
CROSS INTO THE COUNTRY.
WHAT WAS THE RESULT OF THAT?
DEATH OF TWO YOUNG CHILDREN.
>> JOHN, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF WHATS GOING ON AT THETHINK OF
WHATS GOING ON AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY,
WE LAID OUT IN THE OPEN TO THE
SHOW ALL OF THE VARIOUS OPENINGS
THAT ARE AT THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.PARTMENT OF
HOMELAND SECURITY.
NO ACTING OR NO CONFIRMED DIRECTORS OF VARIOUS PARTS OF
THE AGENCY.
THE AGENCY. WHAT DOES THAT DO FOR
EFFECTIVENESS?
>> IT CUTS OFF THE AGENCY AT A TIME THERES CHAOS AT THEY AT A
TIME THERES CHAOS AT THE BORDER.
BORDER.
WE NOW LOST THE SECRETARY.
THERES A CASCADING EFFECT, NOT JUST THE SECRETARY, HER SENIOR
STAFF ARE NOW IN JEOPARDY OF
BEING LOST.
BEING LOST. OTHER REPORTING SUGGESTS GENERAL
COUNSEL WILL BE GONE AND YOURE
RIGHT, VACANCIES, WE HAD THE
I.C.E. DIRECTOR.
IT IS HARD FOR AGENCY LEADERS TO
LEAD WHEN CAREER STAFF ARE
WONDERING WHETHER THEY HAVE THE
FAVOR OF THE PRESIDENT AND HOW
LONG THEYRE GOING TO BE IN THAT
POSITION.
YOU COULDNT IMAGINE A WORSE
TIME TO DO THIS THAN NOW WHEN
NUMBERS ARE THEIR HIGHEST.
ONLY THING I WANT TO FLAG, WE NEED TO NOT LOSE SIGHT OF THE
FACT THAT DHS IS MORE THAN
BORDER SECURITY.
BORDER SECURITY.
THERE ARE CRITICAL
RESPONSIBILITIES WE ARENT
TALKING ABOUT, COUNTERTERRORISM
AND CYBER SECURITY AS WELL.
>> USED TO BE THAT DEPARTMENT OF
HOMELAND SECURITY, PETE WILLIAMS
WAS SAYING THIS ON THE AIR ALL
DAY, WHEN YOU WENT TO DEPARTMENT
OF HOMELAND SECURITY, WHAT YOU
TALKED ABOUT WAS FOREIGN
TERRORISM.
AND NOW ALL YOURE TALKING ABOUT IS IMMIGRATION.RE TALKING ABOUT
IS IMMIGRATION. >> IMMIGRATION IS A BIG PART OF
THE PORTFOLIO, OBVIOUSLY BORDER SECURITY, BUT THATS RIGHT.ORDER
SECURITY, BUT THATS RIGHT. DHS PLAYS A CRITICAL ROLE IN
COUNTSER TERRORISM.
KEVIN IS SHARP AND EXPERIENCED,
COMING FROM CUSTOMS WHICH PLAYS
A BIG ROLE IN THE COUNTERTERRORISM PIECE.
COUNTERTERRORISM PIECE. LETS NOT FORGET, DISASTER
RESPONSE AND RECOVERY.
COMING UP ON HURRICANE SEASON AGAIN. UP ON HURRICANE SEASON
AGAIN. KOPT THINK
KOPT THINK
COULDNT THINK OF A WORSE TIME
TO DESTABILIZE THE DEPARTMENT.
I DONT KNOW IF HE UNDERSTANDS
HOW DESTABILIZING IT IS WHEN YOU
TAKE OUT THREE OR FOUR IN THOSE ROLES.UT THREE OR FOUR IN THOSE
ROLES.
>> JEFF BENNETT CAUGHT UP WITH SENATOR RON JOHNSON, ASKED HIM
ABOUT ALL OF THE ISSUES AT DHS.
HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.
>> IM CONCERNED.
IM CONCERNED FOR THE GROWING
VOID OF LEADERSHIP WITHIN
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY,
AND THIS IS A DEPARTMENT CHARGED WITH TRYING TO GRAPPLE WITH SOME
OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT
CHALLENGES FACING THE NATION.
SO IM CONCERNED.
>> JULIA, IN YOUR REPORTING, JACOB, I WILL GIVE YOU AING,
JACOB, I WILL GIVE YOU A FOLLOW-UP AS WELL, WHO IS IN
CHARGE WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION POLICY, IS IT THE
PRESIDENT FLYING BY THE SEAT OF
HIS PANTS OR GOING WITH HIS GUTS
OR IS IT SOMEONE LIKE STEVE
MILLER WHO NOW INCREASINGLY HAS
HIS EAR?
HIS EAR?
>> Reporter: IT IS INCREASINGLY
THE WHITE HOUSE, OUT OF THE
HANDS OF PEOPLE AT DHS, PEOPLE ON THE GROUND ENFORCING PEOPLE
ON THE GROUND ENFORCING POLICIES.
POLICIES.
IT IS HAPPENING MORE AND MORE IN ROOMS AT THE WHITE HOUSE, STEVEN
MILLER, JARED KUSHNER IS PLAYING
AN ACTIVE ROLE IN IMMIGRATION AND WHO STAYS AND GOES AT THE
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.
I DONT THINK WE SHOULD
UNDERESTIMATE HIM AND HOW
IMPORTANT IT IS IN THE ENTIRE
ADMINISTRATION TO HAVE AN ALLEGIANCE WITH JARED KUSHNER.
AND THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF.
PEOPLE REMIND ME, STEVEN MILLER
IS SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE THE
PRESIDENT AGREES WITH HIM.
HE MAY NOT BE AN IDEALOG, BUT HE
LIKES HIS POLICIES.
HE LIKES THAT THEYRE TOUGH AND
RESONATE WITH THE BASE.
THATS WHY HE IS THERE.
IT IS NOT THAT HE OUTMANEUVERED NRCHS NOT THAT HE OUTMANEUVERED
NRCH
EVERYONE ELSE, THE PRESIDENT CHAMPIONS THOSE POLICIES.ENT
CHAMPIONS THOSE POLICIES. INCREASINGLY IT IS HAPPENING IN
A SMALLER AND SMALLER CIRCLE,
AND IF YOURE NOT PART OF THAT
CIRCLE, DISAGREE WITH IT, SAY IT
CANT BE DONE, YOU FIND YOURSELF
ON THE OUTSIDE.
>> THERES THE IDEA THE
PRESIDENT CAN BE MANIPULATED BY PEOPLE THAT TALKED TO HIM LAST.
MILLER IS AN IMMIGRATION HAWK.
THE REALITY IS DONALD TRUMP WAS
THAT ANTI-IMMIGRATION FROM THE
DAY HE STARTED CAMPAIGNING AND
TALKED ABOUT BUILDING THE WALL
AND MEXICANS COMING OVER THE
BORDER BEING RAPISTS.
STEVEN MILLER CAME TO THE CAMPAIGN BECAUSE THE CAMPAIGN
WAS A SOFT LANDING FOR HIM OR
GOOD PLACE TO SPOUT VIEWS AND
GROW ALIGNED WITH THE PRESIDENT
WHO AGREED WITH THE SAME THING. JACOB, AT THE TIME THAT THEING.
JACOB, AT THE TIME THAT THE PRESIDENT RESCINDED THIS, HE
CITED MELANIA, IVANKA, SAID HE
DIDNT LIKE IT.
WHAT IS THE MESSAGE BEING SENT
NOW?
NOW?
>> SQUENLTLY BY THE WAY, KATY,
OFFICIALS INSIDE THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION AND DHS SAID THEY
VERY MUCH REGRETTED THAT THE
PRESIDENT SIGNED THE EXECUTIVE
ORDER.
THEY FELT THEY WERE CLOSE TO THE
POLICY GOALS THEYRE PUSHING
TODAY, WHICH IS NUMBER ONE,
HOLDING FAMILIES IN JAIL, IN DETENTION INDEFINITELY UNTIL
THEY GET THROUGH PENDENCY OF
IMMIGRATION HEARING.
IMMIGRATION HEARING. THE IDEA OF INDEFINITE DETENTION
OF MIGRANT FAMILIES.
SECOND TO TURN AROUND
IMMEDIATELY UNACCOMPANIED MINOR CHILDREN IMMEDIATELY WHEN THEYR
CHILDREN IMMEDIATELY WHEN THEY GET HERE.
GET HERE.
THERE WAS A FEELING WITHIN THE ADMINISTRATION, THEYWITHIN THE
ADMINISTRATION, THEY COMMUNICATED TO US ON THE GROUND
THAT THEY REGRETTED IT GOT TO
THAT POINT.
I WANT TO SAY, YOU KNOW BETTER
THAN ANYONE, THE PRESIDENT OUT
OF HIS OWN MOUTH CALLED MEXICANS RAPISTS AND CRIMINALS.D MEXICANS
RAPISTS AND CRIMINALS. YOU DONT HEAR THEM TALK ABOUT
THE NUMBER ONE SOURCE WHICH IS VISA OVERSTAYS, PEOPLE LARGELY
FROM ASIA.
FROM ASIA.
HE FOCUSES ON PEOPLE WITH BROWN
SKIN FRANKLY COMING FROM SOUTH
OF THE BORDER, AND THATS WHAT HE IS OBSESSIVELY FIXATED ON.
IF THIS WAS LOOKING AT PEOPLE
COMING INTO THE COUNTRY IN AN
ILLEGAL MANNER, HE WOULDNT BE