[Music]
LT: Welcome to Week 2 of our Online Bible Study, featuring my friend and I guess you
could almost say leadership mentor.
CG: Thank you.
LT: And, fellow ministry partner sometimes, Pastor Craig Groeschel.
CG: Thanks Lysa.
LT: Not only are you an amazing pastor, leader, friend, but also, you guys know, the author
of “Dangerous Prayers” and I’m so grateful to have you.
CG: Thank you, I’m honored to be with you Lysa.
LT: Yah, well thank you so much. So, we’re gonna jump right into Week 2. This week we
are reading all about the dangerous prayer, “search me.”. And I have to say as I was
reading through this book there were certain lines that grabbed ahold of my heart, and
this Week 2, the line that I read, really shook me. And it’s almost like I can’t
not think about it, and so I’ve decided, every time I think about the word search me,
or this quote I’m about to read, I’ve turned it into a prayer. Because I struggle
with fear, and I struggle especially with uncertainty. And I guess some things that
I’ve been through in the past have let me no longer believe like, “It will be fine.
It will be okay.” It’s like, well, no sometimes it’s not fine.
CG: Right.
LT: Sometimes, it’s not okay. But the quote I want to bring out, you mentioned this on
page 40, “Sometimes what we fear the most reveals where we trust God the least.” And
what we say when I’m studying with some of my friends at work, we’ll sometimes read
a line like that and sit back and say, “Roasted.”
CG: Right.
LT: So, what we fear the most sometimes reveals where we trust God the least.
CG: Right. Yeah, it’s not fun. But reality is a lot of us deal with anxiety, we’re
afraid. I can imagine that some of you right now, are facing something with a child maybe,
maybe a marriage challenge. I know a lot of people have real financial fears. It could
be some kind of health issue, any number of different things, and, I think if you take
a look at that thing that’s gripped you with fear and you’re really honest, that’s
probably an area where you haven’t submitted to God. And it’s an indicator perhaps of
a place that we need to grow in our trust and our faith. And it’s no fun to really
admit that, but, you might just think of that right now, what is it that keeps me awake?
What is it that I’m worried about? What is it that triggers that anxious feeling?
And then ask yourself, maybe is that an area that I haven’t surrendered to God? Is it
something I’m trying to control? And, because, what you fear the most does often reveal a
place where you’re trusting God the least.
LT: Well and I think for me, sometimes when I read the words “search me”, or “God
reveal to me”, it almost feels scary because it could feel like, it’s almost like equivalent
to “God expose me.”
CG: Of course it does, yea.
LT: And so, I don’t want to be exposed. I don’t want my vulnerabilities to be so
front and center. I don’t want attention to be drawn there. But I think as I read this
part of “Dangerous Prayers”, what I really picked up from you is it’s not the equivalent
of expose me, it’s God search me so you can help me.
CG: Yes.
LT: It’s God search me so you can reveal a place where Your comforting touch, Your
merciful revelations need to be revealed to me. Not as an act of cruelty, but as an act
of great mercy by God.
CG: Right. We’re not asking an angry critic to point out what’s wrong with us, in us.
We’re asking a loving Father, who wants to conform us to the image of His Son to help
do that very thing. And I think you’ve been so graciously public about what you’ve been
through in the last few years. It's a message that’s given so many people hope, and inspired
them to press on when they would rather give up, and your life is in many ways a reflection
of the kind of “Dangerous Prayers”. It’s not that I’m pointing my finger at what
someone else is doing or not, but God, what do you want to do in me? And if it takes,
if You have to search me to show me where I need to trust You more, then do it. If You
need to break me to get me to place a total dependence on You, do that. And it’s incredibly
scary to say, “Anything, show me. Reveal the sin in me. Is there arrogance, is there
pride. Am I narcissistic, am I unnecessarily critical? Am I battling and rationalized a
sin that is really breaking Your heart and keeping me from intimacy with someone else?
Search me.” And, if you’re afraid to pray that, you know, what we fear the most may
reveal where we trust the least. It’s a dangerous prayer, but it is to a loving God,
who really, really cares about you. And what He shows you isn’t with a condemning finger,
but with a loving lift of let Me help you become more of who I want you to be.
LT: Well, it’s kind of interesting what you said, when we pray that kind of prayer,
“search me”, our view of God very much determines the level to which we would be
able to pray a prayer like that.
CG: That’s good. Right.
LT: So, if our view of God, that’s been shaped by perceptions and beliefs that are
formed in us, if we do see God as a condemning critic with His finger pointing at us, ready
to expose us to the world, then praying a prayer like this is going to feel dangerous
in the fear side of dangerous. But, if we do view God as a loving God, as one who is
for us, not against us, as one who is continuing to create us and shape us and mold us into
what we would want to be if we, if we could only see God’s vision of us.
CG: Yes.
LT: Then, if that’s our view and perception of God, dangerous doesn’t mean scary, dangerous
means the most exciting opportunity…
CG: Yes.
LT: to connect with the depths of who God is and who He created us to be.
CG: Yep. That’s good.
LT: I wrote recently a study called Trustworthy, and in there I put, if I’m honest, there
are many times where I would rather tame God than trust God. I would rather gather up all
the things about my life, and make my plan, my vision for the way things are supposed
to be. And, even most tempting for me, I want my outcome. I wanna take what I assume a good
God should do and the outcome of all my situations and, I wanna tame God to the point where I
say, “bless this, my plan. Don’t mess with this God, just bless it”. And what
I’m starting to understand is when I do that, that is the exact opposite of surrender.
And that’s where we get caught in that trap of control and that kind of trying to control
something that ultimately we know we cannot control. That’s really what I think is feeding
so much of our anxiety, our depression, our frustration, our disappointments with life.
And so, I really think ultimately, when we back this week all the way up, am I willing
to fully and truly and authentically surrender the way I think things should be, and trade
it for what God sees as bes,? But I’m only able to do that if I view Him as a loving
Father, who has my best interest in mind.
CG: Yes, tragically I think that most people don’t view God that way. So everything is
you know, He’s out to get me or He really doesn’t care or He’s not listening to
this, my prayer, or whatever. And so I really, really do pray that if maybe you were raised
in a way that you’ve got a distorted view of God, that instead Lysa, that you know,
read her books. You know, let God renew your mind, that He is a good God. He cares about
you. He cares about the intimate details about what you’re going through. And ultimately,
what we want for ourselves, although it may feel comfortable, it may feel clean, that
on the other side of some difficult prayers, that on the other side of faith, is His goodness.
Even if we find ourselves mourning or broken, He meets us in those moments, He comforts
us. I like what you said too about the dangerous part, sometimes the most fun things in life
are kinda dangerously thrilling. You know you’re on a ride with your kids, on the
rapids and your like that was crazy, scary fun. And I think that’s really what a life
of faith is like. Where it’s like, I need You NOW. And okay, You just came through for
me now. And I didn’t know what was going to happen, and You revealed your goodness.
And then I thought we hit a dead end, and You opened up a door. And it was kinda a dangerous
faith ride, but on the back side, we could see Your goodness the whole way with us God.
LT: I think sometimes we get glimpses of the goodness of God in situations here on earth.
So we get glimpses of God; the sunrise and the sunset. You know, we get glimpses of God
when we hear an amazing message at church and there’s something in our heart that
we’re just like, “ah”, you know. And then we get glimpses of God when maybe we
view something in nature. So I’m a mountain girl. I know a lot of you are beach people,
but I love the mountains. And sometimes when I get up early in the morning, and I’m looking
across at the mountains and the way they almost kiss the clouds, it’s just, I have this
moment when I’m like, “ah”. I was trying to explain to my kids recently, it’s in
those moments where we get such a revelation, I think, of what we’re working toward one
day when we get to heaven. And, I think we would be more willing to pray dangerous prayers
if we had a right view of where God really is taking us. He’s not taking us, one day,
to this eternity where we’re gonna float around in clouds and play the harp and everything.
It’s gonna be an endless awe and wonder of everything we see. It’s going to be an
eternity of that “ah” feeling. And so, I agree with you, sometimes it can feel scary
to stand on the heights and look at a mountain. But, we press through because of the “ah”
on the other side. And that’s what I think “Dangerous Prayers” is gonna really create
for people. An opportunity to press through the resistance of praying something that at
first seems quite scary, search me.
CG: I hope so, and I hope that it also breaks people out of, you know I talk to people all
the time that say, “I don’t know how to pray. I get bored praying. I feel like my
prayers are hitting the ceiling.” And so I hope that it infuses people with this kinda
raw faith, and transparency before God. That I’m just praying the normal every day, “Keep
me safe.” type prayers. But it’s a kinda gut wrenching, maybe I’m hurting, maybe
I’m angry, maybe I am afraid but here it goes, okay “Search me.” You know God.
So hopefully it will really create a sense of intimacy and depth and dimension in our
relationship with God.
LT: That’s amazing. Well, Pastor Craig thank you for being brave enough to write a book
that we all need, “Dangerous Prayers”.
CG: Thank you.
LT: Thank you for leading us to the place where we feel permission to break outside
of maybe what for some of us has been, very rote prayers. But to expand our view of what
we can and should and ought to pray. And thank you for being willing to go first. I know
that you don’t write a message like this without asking God to search you, and then
hard things being revealed.
CG: Yes.
LT: But on the other side of that, what would you say, as we wrap up today, that you’ve
prayed, “search me”, God did reveal something hard, but over time, the blessing that came
from that.
CG: I think anytime, in my life right now, God is showing me stuff that He is trying
to cleanse from me. It’s incredibly painful, it’s embarrassing. Like, how would someone
like me, who's walked with God and who's supposed to be a “public spiritual figure” still
be dealing with something that seems so simple. But on the other hand, I wake up with a sense
of, God’s doing a new thing in me, and it’s not an easy thing. Even to the point of where
in front of three people just trying to talk about something, I just couldn’t keep back
the tears a couple days ago. And this just raw, emotional, gut wrenching, self examining,
God do something in me type of place. And so, I would just say have faith that God can
do something like that in you. That it can be fresh, it can be real. And the most intimate
moments, the most faith building moments for me are not the big victorious, “that’s
exactly what I wanted moments.” It’s in the no, there’s something in you that needs
to be cleansed. Or there’s something in you that needs to be broken. Or I have something
more for you on the other side of this if you’ll just get out of your comfort zone,
step over your fears and put all your trust in Me. All that feels dangerous to me, but
on the other side of a very unusual path that we often wouldn’t choose and wouldn’t
want, it’s the place where, okay, THAT’S why You took us this way, because You couldn’t
have gotten us to this place any other way.
LT: And I love your vulnerability and your tenderness as you approach this, because hard
hearts break, but soft hearts get molded.
CG: Good.
LT: And I think if we’re tired of having our heart broken by circumstances, I think
it’s time to shift that…
CG: That’s really good.
LT: And ask the Lord, search us, so He can keep our hearts soft. And I don’t think
we’ll have our heart broken by the circumstances nearly as much, if our heart is soft enough
to just be molded by God.
CG: Good.
LT: So thank you. And you know how we close…
CG: Oh yes.
LT: ...every week. You might even know it better than me, right.
CG: Hey listen to me.. If you know the truth, and if you live the truth…
Both: It changes everything.
LT: Alright, we love you guys, see you next week.