>> Stephen: WELL, CONGRATULATIONS ON THE PULITZER
PRIZE.
>> THANK YOU.
I'M A LITTLE DAZED ABOUT IT.
I'M RELIEVED THE STORY GOT OUT.
WHEN I LOFT TALKED TO YOU I WAS STILL VERY MUCH EMBATTLED AND
CRANKOUTH STORIES.
>> Stephen: RIGHT, THE LAST TIME WE TALKED I THINK YOU WERE
ABOUT TO PUT OUT THE ARTICLE ABOUT WHAT HARVEY WEINSTEIN AND
HIS LAWYER DID TO SUPPRESS STORIES.
>> WANT FORMER MASAD AGENTS ON MY TAIL.
THAT WAS EXCITING.
>> Stephen: WAS THAT SORT OF INVOLVED IN THE "CATCH AND KILL"
SORT OF A "PULP MEDIA" CATCH THE STORY AND NEVER PRINT IT?
>> THE LINK BETWEEN THE WEINSTEIN STORIES I WAS WORKING
ON THE TRUMP STORIES I HAVE BROKEN SINCE IS VERY DIRECT, IN
THE SAME THEY WERE USING THE SAME INTERMEDIARIES-- A.M.I.
BEING ONE, THAT PUBLISHING "THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER."
>> Stephen: WHICH IS THE OPPOSITE OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT.
( LAUGHTER ) IT'S THE FREEDOM-- IT'S THE
FREEDOM OF NOT SPEECH.
>> IT'S AN INTERESTING PHENOMENON, WIELDED BY A
SURPRISING NUMBER OF POWERFUL PEOPLE THAT I THINK IT'S GOOD
PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT.
THERE COULD BE SERIOUS RAMIFICATIONS IN TERMS OF
ELECTION LAWS, BECAUSE THESE WERE SECRET PAYMENTS TO KEEP
STORIES QUIET DURING AN ELECTION.
>> Stephen: YOU ALSO GOT ANOTHER BIG HONOR THIS WEEK.
IT'S NOT JUST THE PULITZER.
YOU WERE ALSO HONORED BY TAIRA BANKS WHO SAID OF YOU, "THE MAN
HAS LIPS.
THE MAN HAS SMIZE.
THE MAN SHOULD BE ON "CYCLE 25."
THE MAN IS RONAN FARROW AND HE IS BOTH BRILLIANT AND BEAUTIFUL.
GET HIS BOOK."
( APPLAUSE ).
>> SURE.
>> Stephen: YOU DO HAVE-- YOU DO HAVE EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT LIP
GAME.
WHAT IS YOUR EMOLLIENT?
DO YOU GO BLIFTEX?
ARE WE TAKING SHEA BUTTER?
>> ALL I CAN SAY IS I OWE MY SMIZE TO THE BRAVE SOURCES WHO
SPOKE.
>> Stephen: NOBLE, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE BEING SILLY.
NOW, LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR LATEST-- BY THE WAY, I'M ABOUT
TO TALK ABOUT THIS BOOK.
WHEN DO YOU HAVE TIME TO DO THIS?
HOW DO YOU-- HOW DO YOU HAVE TIME TO DO THESE ARTICLES WHICH
HAVE TO BE TIME SPENCIVE BECAUSE THEY'RIVELY RESEARCHED.
THEY'RE SHORT.
THEY'RE "NEW YORKER" ARTICLES.
AND YOU'RE WRITING A NEW BOOK "WAR ON PEACE: THE END OF
DIPLOMACY AND THE DECLINE OF AMERICAN INFLUENCE."
WHEN DID YOU WRITE THIS?
>> NOT A LOT OF SLEEP IN MY LIFE, STEPHEN IN THE LAST THREE
YEARS.
ARIANA HUFFINGTON IS MAD AT ME.
SHE'S GOT HER PRO-SLEEP MOVEMENT.
I'M TOLERATING IT NOW.
LOOK, THERE WERE NIGHTS WHEN I WAS WORKING ON THE STORY UNTIL
2:00 A.M. AT "THE NEW YORKER" AND THEN GOING HOME AND TYPING
UNTIL MY FINGERS BLED AND TURNING IN A DRAFT OF A BOOK
CHAPTER AT 10 A.M., AND THEN COLLAPSING.
IT'S NOT A HEALTHY LIFESTYLE.
I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND IT WHILE BEING ON THE RUN FROM FORMER
MASAD AGENTS, BUT IT'S DONE NOW, AND I'M VERY GRATEFUL FOR THAT.
>> Stephen: WHAT IS THE WAR ON PEACE?
>> AMERICA IS UNDERGOING A TRANSFORMATION RIGHT NOW.
WE ARE DISMISSING OUR DIPLOMATS AND OUR PEACEMAKERS AND
NEGOTIATORS IN DROVES.
AND ALL AROUND THE WORLD, INSTEAD, WE'RE DOING THE WORK
THAT THOSE NEGOTIATORS ONCE DID THROUGH THE PENTAGON AND THE
C.I.A.
AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS, IN EFFECT, IN CONFLICT AFTER
CONFLICT, WE ARE BECOME A NATION THAT SHOOTS FIRST AND ASKS
QUESTIONS LATER, OR NOT AT ALL IN SOME CASES.
>> Stephen: SO, OKAY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
HOW DOES THE DECLINE OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT CREATE THE
DECLINE OF AMERICAN INFLUENCE?
BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT AMERICAN INFLUENCE IS
BECAUSE WE CAN PROJECT POWER, THAT WE HAVE A MILITARY THAT IS
BIGGER THAN THE NEXT NINE MILITARIES COMBINED?
AND WE CAN PARK ANY AIRCRAFT CARRIER OFF THE SHORE OF ANY
COUNTRY, RUSSIA AND CHINA INCLUDED, AND SHUT DOWN THEIR
AIR SPACE IN A DAY.
>> AND THAT'S NOT UNTRUE.
AND YONGE THERE'S A SANE PERSON IN THIS BOOK OR ELSEWHERE THAT
SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULDN'T HAVE SIGNIFICANT MILITARY MIGHT.
THE QUESTION IS OF THE BALANCE BETWEEN THESE TWO PARTS OF OUR
GOVERNMENT.
AND, YOU KNOW, I TELL THE STORY OF-- I WAS A JUNIOR STATE
DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL IN AFGHANISTAN.
AND I SAW WHEN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION REVIEWED WHAT THE
HELL DO WE DO IN AFGHANISTAN?
AND MY BOSS AT THE TIME, RICHARD HOLBROOKE, WHO YOU KNEW --
>> Stephen: YES.
>> THIS LARGER-THAN-LIFE VETERAN DIPLOMAT WHO MADE PIECE IN
BOSNIA, SPENT HIS LAST DAYS DECRYING WHAT HE SAID WAS
OVERTAKEN BY MILITARY THINKING.
AND THERE ARE SENIOR OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS SAYING
WE WERE SNOWED BY A CULTURE OF CELEBRITY GENERALS AND THE
DIPLOMATS NEVER GOT INTO THE ROOM.
AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS YOU HAVE A VERY SKEWED APPROACH TO
PROBLEMS.
INSTEAD OF A SYSTEM WHERE OUR PEACEMAKERS AND NEGOTIATORS
SPARE OUR BRAVE SERVICE MEN AND WOMEN FROM GOING HEAD-LONG INTO
CONFLICTS, THE FIRST SOLUTION IS MILITARY.
AND THAT'S A PROBLEM ALL OVER THE WORLD.
>> Stephen: BACK IN THE-- DENNIS KUCINICH, HAD CALLED FOR
THE DEVELOPMENT OR CREATION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF PEACE.
AND WILLIE NELSON WAS A FAN OF KUCINICH'S, AND I HAD RICHARD
HOLBROOKE AND WILLY ON THE SAME NIGHT-- HE WAS NO, A PEACE
BETWEEN ME AND WILLY BECAUSE WE HAD COMPETING ICE CREAM FLAVORS.
AFTER SHOW THE WAS OVER AND THEY SANG "ON THE ROAD AGAIN," HE
SAID WHY DON'T YOU CREATE A DEPARTMENT OF PEACE?
DON'T WE NEED ONE?
AND HOLBROOKE, WHO IS A VERY TALL MAN, LOOKED DOWN AT WILLY
AND SAID, "BILLY, WE HAVE ONE.
IT'S CALLED THE STATE DEPARTMENT, BUT IT HAS TO
BULATIONED AS SUCH."
( APPLAUSE ).
>> THANK YOU FOR APPLAUDING THAT.
>> Stephen: HE'S A GREAT MAN AND BELIEVED IN PEACE AND
BELIEVED IN DIPLOMACY.
>> IT'S A MISUNDERSTOOD PROFESSION.
I'M GLAWD RAISED THAT.
>> Stephen: WHAT DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE STATE
DEPARTMENT?
BECAUSE I'M FASCINATED BY THESE PEOPLE WHO DEDICATE THEIR LIVES
TO THIS.
>> SO OFTEN ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL IT'S POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT
TO JUST DENIGRATE OUR DIPLOMATS, AND THERE'S THE IMAGE OF THE
DUSTY BUREAUCRAT WHO DOESN'T GET ANYTHING DONE.
I WORKED AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT, AND IT HAS PROBLEMS
AND NEEDS REFORM.
BUT WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS WE'RE JUST THROWING IT OUT.
WE'RE NOT REFORMING IT.
AND I THINK WHAT UNDERPINS THAT, STEPHEN, IS WE DO ALLOW THE
DENIGRATION OF, THAT CONSIST OF A LOT OF BRAVE PEOPLE WHO COULD
MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND TAKE THEIR
FAMILIES, AND MOVE THEM AROUND THE WORLD, IN THE MOST DANGEROUS
PLACES IN THE WORLD, AND THEY DON'T GET WELCOMED HOME WITH
TICKER TAPE PARADES.
I THINK THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF JUST
HOW IMPORTANT THESE PEOPLE ARE AND HOW IMPORTANT WHAT THEY DO
IS IN KEEPING US SAFE.
>> Stephen: YOU TALKED TO TILLERSON-- YOU TALKED TO EVERY
FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE.
WHAT DOES TILLERSON HAVE TO SAY ABOUT WHAT SOME WOULD CALL THE
DISMANTLING OF THE APPARATUS IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT?
>> HE'S MORE CANDID HERE-- AND I'M VERY GRATEFUL TO HIM FOR
THIS-- THAN HE HAS BEEN BEFORE ON THE RECORD.
IT'S ONE OF HIS LAST INTERVIEWS IN HIS JOB.
HE PUTS A LOT OF BLAMES TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
HE SAYS THEY WERE CUMBERSOME AND IGNORED PIZ PLEAS TO FILL THE
UNFILLED ROLES IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT.
WE HAVE ALL THESE EMBASSIES THAT ARE JUST EMPTY NOW.
AND HE ALSO SAID WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A REALLY STARTLING THING IS
THAT HE'S INEXPERIENCED.
HE TALKED ABOUT DEFENDING THE 30% CUT IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT
BUDGET IN HIS FIRST MONTHS ON THE JOB AND JUST NOT KNOWING
BETTER.
THAT HE THOUGHT YOU COULD GO OUT ON THE HILL AND SAY, "NO THANKS,
I DON'T WANT MONEY," AND ASSUME CONGRESS WILL GIVE YOU MORE.
IT TURNS OUT CONGRESS DID TRY TO ROLL BACK THESE CUTS AND NOT
ACCEPT THESE CUTS.
EVERY OTHER LIVING SECRETARY OF STATE EXPRESSED SOME DEGREE OF
ASTONISHMENT TO THAT DEGREE.
>> Stephen: DID YOU TALK TO POMPEO?
>> POMPEO IS A QUESTION MARK IN THIS BOOK.
HE'S MORE HAWKISH THAN REX TILLERSON.
WE KNOW HE'S IN LOCKSTEP WITH THE PRESIDENT ON THE IRAN DEAL.
TILLERSON PUSHED BACK ON TRUMP'S EFFORTS TO GET OUT OF THE IRAN
DEAL.
ALL EVIDENCES POINT TO HE WILL BE MUCH MORE OF AN EXECUTIONER.
SOME SEE HIM AS HAVING AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVERSE THE
NOSEDIVE THE STATE DEPARTMENT IS IN.
>> Stephen: WELL, THANKS FOR WRITING THIS BOOK.
PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND WHAT'S
HAPPENED TO AMERICAN DIPLOMACY.
"WAR ON PEACE" IS AVAILABLE NOW.
RONAN FARROW, EVERYBODY!
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH A PERFORMANCE BY GRACE VANDERWAAL.
THANKS, MAN.