HE KEPT MAKING THE CASE THAT UKRAINE NEEDS F-16S.
WHEN DO YOU THINK THEY WILL GET THEM AND DO THEY NEED THEM
RIGHT NOW?
>> I THINK THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE AND THE SOLDIERS HAVE SHOWN US
SO MUCH COMMITMENT, BUT THEY ARE LOSING THOUSANDS OF THEIR
PEOPLE. THEY ARE LOSING THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE.
I THINK AT THIS POINT THAT WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR IS
REASONABLE.
I THINK AIRPOWER, LONGER-RANGE MISSILES, IS VERY REASONABLE.
IF THEY COULD TAKE OUT THE BASES IN RUSSIA THAT ARE
LAUNCHING THESE MISSILES OR DRONES ARE THESE AIRPLANES THAT
ARE DROPPING THESE MISSILES, I THINK WE WOULD START SEEING A
MORE LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. I THINK IT IS TIME TO GO FOR A
WIN AND NOT JUST A STALEMATE. JOE:
THAT IS CERTAINLY WHAT HE TOLD US YESTERDAY.
IT COMES DOWN TO A QUESTION OF STRATEGY AND BEST USE OF
RESOURCES ACCORDING TO SOME. KELLY GRIECO FROM THE SIMPSON
CENTER SPOKE TO THE ACTUAL STRATEGY IN WHAT UKRAINE NEEDS.
LET'S LISTEN.
>> SWITCHING TO THE F-16 IS AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE UKRAINIAN
AIR FORCE INTO THE AMERICAN AIR FORCE. UKRAINE FACES A DIFFERENT
PROBLEM SET.
THEY ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE AGAINST THE RUSSIANS.
RATHER THAN FIGHTING THEM SYMMETRICALLY WITH F-16S, IT IS
FAR MORE EFFECTIVE TO CONTINUE WITH AN ASYMMETRIC STRATEGY.
JOE: WHO IS RIGHT ON THIS ONE?
SHE WOULD BE DOUBLING DOWN INSTEAD OF PLAYING WITH FIGHTER
JETS?
>> I THINK ALL OF THE ABOVE. I THINK WE NEED TO STRATEGIZE
TO WIN AND WE NEED TO DO IT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE SO THAT THE
REBUILDING PROCESS FOR UKRAINE CANNOT GO FORWARD.
I THINK THIS MEANS THAT UKRAINE MUST WIN.
WE MUST STICK WITH THEM THROUGHOUT.
AND I THINK THAT MEANS THAT AT THE TIME TO MAKE THE DECISION
THAT WE WILL HELP THEM WIN DECISIVELY.
ANNE-MARIE: WE ALSO HAD THE NATO SECRETARY
GENERAL IN A SURPRISE TRIP TO KYIV.
TAKE A LISTEN TO WHAT HE HAD TO SAY WHEN HE GOT TO UKRAINE.
>> WE HAVE AGREED THAT UKRAINE WILL BECOME A MEMBER.
UKRAINE NEEDS SECURITY.
BECAUSE NOBODY CAN TELL WHEN AND HOW THIS WILL END.
BUT WHEN IT ENDS, WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT HISTORY DOES NOT
REPEAT ITSELF. ANNE-MARIE:
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF HIS -- JENS STOLTENBERG GOING TO KYIV AND
SAYING UKRAINE WILL BECOME A PART OF THE ALLIANCE?
IS HE POKING VLADIMIR PUTIN?
>> I THINK NATO HAS SAID ALREADY THAT EVENTUALLY UKRAINE
WOULD BE AN ALLY IN NATO. ONE THING PRESIDENT PUTIN
MISJUDGED IS THAT UKRAINE WAS ON THE VERGE OF GETTING INTO
NATO AND USING THAT AS AN EXCUSE FOR HIS AGGRESSION.
UKRAINE IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF NATO.
IT HAS BEEN SINCE THE END OF THE COLD WAR.
THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN IN THE CARDS, THAT WHEN UKRAINE WAS
READY THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO GET INTO NATO.
WE DO HOPE THAT IS THE CASE AND WHAT JENS STOLTENBERG SAID WAS
EXACTLY THE ATTITUDE OF OUR NATO ALLIES.
BUT UKRAINE WAS NOT READY.
THEY WERE A VERY VALUABLE PARTNER FOR NATO.
WE DO WANT THEM TO BE AN ALLY IN THE FUTURE AND I THINK THE
FUTURE IS AT THE RIGHT TIME. SO NOW WE NEED TO HELP THEM
FEND OFF THIS TERRIBLE AGGRESSION AGAINST THEM.
THEY HAVE FOUGHT VALIANTLY.
WHEN THIS IS DECIDED, WHICH WE HOPE SOONER RATHER THAN LATER,
THEN WE WILL START TRYING TO HELP THEM REBUILD FOR SURE.
AND WE WILL THEN BEGIN TO LOOK AT WHEN THE TIME IT WOULD BE
RIGHT FOR THEM TO BE AN ALLY. JOE:
AMBASSADOR, THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR OVER A YEAR.
THERE WAS A DEBATE IN WASHINGTON OVER WHETHER THE U.S.
SHOULD BE COMMITTING THESE MANY RESOURCES TO THE WAR EFFORT IN
UKRAINE. KNOWING THAT THIS HAS BECOME A
BATTLE OF ATTRITION, HOW MUCH TIME DO WE HAVE TO PLAY HERE?
WHEN DOES THIS WAR NEED TO BE WON?
>> I THINK PUTTING A TIMETABLE ON IT IS VERY DIFFICULT.
UKRAINE HAS THE POSITION THAT YOU CANNOT DO A CEASE FIRE
RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE TERRITORY OF UKRAINE HAS BEEN INVADED AND
YOU DO NOT WANT TO PUT IN PLACE WHERE THE RUSSIANS ARE NOW.
YOU NEED TO GO BACK TO THEIR BORDERS WHERE THEY UKRAINE'S
FEEL THEY CAN NEGOTIATE FROM THE POSITION OF STRENGTH, WHICH
IS THERE SUFFERING THE BORDER.
I THINK AT THIS POINT, WE HAVE TO RELY ON THE UKRAINIANS TO
MAKE THAT DECISION. AND YES, WE WILL STICK WITH
THEM.
AND GUESS, IT IS COSTLY -- AND YES, IT IS COSTLY, BUT WE HAVE
NOT PUT ONE AMERICAN TROOP ON THE GROUND THERE.
HE IS NOT ASKING FOR TRIPS, HE IS ASKING FOR ARMS.
-- HE IS NOT ASKING FOR TROOPS,
HE IS ASKING FOR ARMS. IT IS IN AMERICA'S INTERESTS AS WELL AS
THE EUROPEAN INTERESTS. OTHER AUTOCRATS NEED TO SEE
THAT WE WILL STAND UP, WE WILL NOT LOSE INTEREST, THAT WE WILL
STICK WITH ALLIES AND COMMITMENTS THAT WE HAVE MADE.
CHINA NEEDS TO SEE THAT, NORTH KOREA NEEDS TO SEE THAT.
IT IS A MESSAGE THAT IS FOR AMERICA'S INTERESTS AS WELL AS
THE EUROPEANS THAT WE STICK WITH UKRAINE AND THAT UKRAINE
WIN AND THERE IS A PEACEFUL SETTLEMENT.
WE WILL CERTAINLY WANT TO DO EVERYTHING TO HELP THEM REBUILD
FROM THIS ATROCIOUS AGGRESSION OF RUSSIA ON THE SUBORNATION.
ANNE-MARIE: THERE IS ANOTHER PLACE OF
INTEREST RIGHT NOW AND THAT IS SUDAN.
TAKE A LISTEN.
>> WE DEPLOYED SOME FORCES INTO THEATER TO ENSURE THAT WE
PROVIDE AS MANY OPTIONS AS POSSIBLE IF WE ARE CALLED ON TO
DO SOMETHING. WE HAVE NOT BEEN CALLED ON YET.
OUR FOCUS IS TO MAKE SURE WE CONTINUE TO DO PRUDENT PLANNING
AND WE MAINTAIN AS MANY OPTIONS FOR OUR PRESIDENT AS POSSIBLE.
ANNE-MARIE: SHOULD BY UNITED STATES BE
EVACUATING U.S. CITIZENS RIGHT NOW FROM SUDAN?
>> THAT HAS TO BE A DECISION MADE BY THE ADMINISTRATION
WHICH HAS THE PEOPLE THERE. I KNOW IN MY HEART THAT THEY
WILL DECIDE . THE SITUATION THERE IS
VOLATILE, IT IS DANGEROUS.
OUR OFFICERS ACT VERY BOLDLY
AND REPRESENT OUR INTERESTS AND SAFETY FOR OUR OWN PERSONNEL,
BUT ALSO MAKING SURE WE DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE THE
TENSIONS GO AWAY OR LESSON THE TENSIONS.
IT IS VOLATILE RIGHT NOW. I WOULD NOT PUT MY OPINION
THERE BECAUSE THEY KNOW MORE INSIDE INFORMATION THAN I WOULD.
JOE: