Welcome to another pod for Israel my name is Dr Seth postel I'm here with Dr Golan broshi
and we are excited to be talking about another installment for the case for messiah an Old
Testament defense of the New Testament faith and today we decided to do something a little
bit different we wanted to kind of give you some background and then understanding as to
why this series needs to take place at all why are we putting out all of these episodes about
different verses in the Hebrew Bible and why is it a big deal for us so Golan we're we're
here today and yes so let me ask you a question right off the bat why did we why did we start
this particular series what was the incentive what was the objective yeah no it's a great question
um a few things first of all uh you know we we've heard on on several different social media plan
platforms that the that the Christians and the New Testament they misinterpret
uh the Hebrew Bible that they twist the Hebrew Bible so that was the main claim that came from
anti-missionaries yeah well I mean obviously there's been a discussion for for the last 2000
years among among Jews Jews who believed in who believe in Yeshua and Jews who don't and in their
debate there was an in-house debate as to what does the Hebrew Bible really say right and and
so we hear it so often said that the the Hebrew Bible has been misinterpreted abused by Christians
by the New Testament especially prophecies well I would say right there is kind of the epicenter of
the debate and that is you know there are verses that are obviously key verses in the New Testament
key verses for why we as Jews believe that Jesus is the Messiah and these are the verses that are
being argued don't have anything to do with the Messiah at all in the New Testament abuse those
verses so in this series we want to show that there is a case for the New Testament
interpretation well absolutely I mean obviously you and I are sitting here uh both of us come
both of us were raised in Jewish families both of us you know in some ways we've had to experience
persecution and rejection by our friends and family for faith in in that man exactly and
we we obviously believe it's absolutely necessary to to talk talk about and to explain why we think
that that Jesus really is the Messiah and with the more we study the Old Testament the more
our faith in Yeshua just Grows Right absolutely I mean you think about the fact that you know
both of us serve it one for Israel at the Bible College one for Israel's Bible College and we've
actually dedicated Our Lives to research and to study not not not for something heady not because
of degrees on the wall but because because we have been firmly convinced from the Hebrew Bible okay
that Jesus is the Messiah okay so let me ask you another thing another objection that we hear from
the anti-missioneries that Christians don't know Hebrew if they only knew the Biblical Hebrew they
would see that the New Testament misinterpreted the Old Testament is that true yeah we hear this
all the time this is the classic argument is that you know Christians are just naive that
they've hijacked the Old Testament but they they obviously Christians don't learn Hebrew at home
they're not you know you know in Sunday schools at churches they're not studying Hebrew and then they
claim uh that the Hebrew Bible is about Jesus without knowing Hebrew and so he here you and
I are sitting here both of us know Hebrew both of us read Hebrew both of us grew up in Jewish
families and we want to sit here and we want to show that actually uh the more we know Hebrew the
better you know Hebrew the more you're aware of the context of the Hebrew Bible and the passages
I think the better the argument the better the case is for believing in Jesus of course
okay so so here's another question because the name of Russia comes up in many of our podcasts
and anti-missionaries rely on Russia so who is Russia and what was he all about yeah so Rashi
is actually a really important figure in our whole discussion because actually the anti-missionaries
they they never kind of come up with new arguments nothing Under the Sun they're almost never any new
arguments against the the New Testament or uh interpreting the Old Testament messianically
certain passages so rashi's an important figure um and in fact so so let's talk about rashi
rashi lived at a time when the Jewish people were being persecuted by the Crusaders it was terrible
um in Germany there's a very famous incident in Germany where Jews were murdered
um right by by so-called Christians uh the Jews were being forced to hear conversionary sermons
and obviously this is something even for us as Jewish Believers that that sickens us it makes
us sad because that's clearly a distortion of the New Testament especially when it comes from
the so-called Church exactly but we still need to deal with it so Rashi lived at this time and
he actually had to deal with two issues the first issue was the issue of who is the true Israel now
you and I obviously would agree with Rashi that here the true Israel right God didn't change his
mind who Israel is but the church kept claiming that they were the true Israel and during the
first Crusades in in 1199 when they actually conquered Jerusalem in the holy land that for
them was proof that they had taken over all the promises of the people of Israel and so the Jews
were living in terrible conditions in Exile the Christians were running you know Christian Europe
and then they had the holy land so for that for them that was proof that that they were the true
Israel so Rashi actually had to react to react and try to encourage Jewish people that their
suffering had purpose they had a reason they had a mission the second thing that Rashi needed to
do is the Jewish people being forced to listen to to sermons right Rashi needed to develop a
method of refuting Christian interpretation it was very important for him to refute Christian
interpretation and he he developed or he didn't develop a method but he perfected a method which
is called the shot this is what we mean that when we say the shot now you're talking about this shot
method well what does it mean so something really sad has happened along the way shot in Judaism has
been has come to be understood as the literal meaning of the text and in Christian circles
many times they think they assume that the shot is the literal meaning of the text but actually
what does the word pursuit mean simple simple okay so the shot actually was a methodology that didn't
didn't provide the literal meaning of the Hebrew Bible but it provided the simplest refutation of
the Christian reading of the Hebrew Bible in other words the shot at its core is a polemic and it's
very ingenious because it uses the details of the Hebrew Bible right in order to refute the
the Messianic interpretation of these passages but the shot in it we need to be clear about this
the pashat is not intended to provide the literal meaning of the text its intention is not to show
the authorial intent and so one one of the things that you and I are doing we are both Jewish right
and we are both Israeli and both of us are very much excited about the the close reading of the
Hebrew Bible that's being practiced in Israeli universities and so what we're showing is that
a close reading of the Hebrew Bible often shows an intention to these texts that's very different
than the shots now when you're saying that Rashi Rabbi when Russia is is not doing the actual
literal meaning you're not you're not alone saying it the scholars are now beginning to say to to see
it also and absolutely so there are a couple of Rashi Scholars that that we've looked at together
and these Rashi Scholars are basically showing and they're saying that Rashi lived in a very
difficult time and his mission was to protect the Jewish people so he thought but in order to do so
he he used a very agenda-driven interpretation nation of the Hebrew Bible but today we see the
anti-missionaries they they simply are are using Rashi and Russia's apologetics rashi's apologetics
they're using rashi's interpretation as if that's the literal meaning of the text and so this series
is actually trying to show that actually a careful reading of these texts actually affirms confirms
supports the New Testament so if that's the case here's the last question so the purpose
we talked about the purpose of the series The the incentive the the goal what's so for for believers
for believers even if they're not Jewish and there are some not Jewish Believers in the world right
I hear it yeah how can this series help them along what we said alongside so I think that
we have three goals right I would say three goals for this new series and hopefully by God's grace
we'll accomplish them the first goal is we do want Believers to know that they can trust
their New Testaments and they can also trust their interpretation or the their translation of the Old
Testament that's the first thing so that when they hear arguments that the New Testament distorts and
twists and is not accurate we're here to say that that's not true that's the first goal the second
goal is to actually try to show that a careful reading of the Hebrew Bible a knowledge of Hebrew
grammar syntax a knowledge of context actually shows and helps us discern how the New Testament
authors saw Jesus in the Hebrew Bible so Golan you know it's I've heard this oftentimes Christians
assume that uh the only way to understand the Old Testament is through the New Testament right in
other words you have to read the New Testament to make sense of the Old Testament but this series
actually is making a very different claim and that is right that in order to truly understand
the New Testament we have to carefully study the Old Testament so so the point being right
in this series we're arguing that the more we spend time carefully reading the Hebrew Bible
the more convinced will be that the New Testament is correct so that reminds me of Paul or Shaul
studying the the Old Testament studying the Torah proving from the Torah from the purpose of the
Torah Yeshua the Messiah yeah one of my favorite passages in this discussion is acts 17 11. so Paul
ends up in Berea and so Paul is preaching right in the synagogue correct and what's amazing is
that the bereans would hear what Paul was saying and then they would search the scriptures for
themselves to see if these things were so in other words Paul in the New Testament authors don't
expect us just to hear what they say and just okay let's just accept it at you know at face value the
New Testament is a faith that encourages careful study and so that's exactly what we see and and
when they study scripture it it wasn't the New Testament yet right correct exactly so when Paul
went to these synagogues he didn't read the Gospel of John right he wasn't he wasn't reading you know
the the the letter to the Romans to try right they were making their argumentation from the law the
prophets and the writings so the foundation of the faith is actually found in the old what we
call the so-called Old Testament correct and I think that this series well it's also a call for
believers to spend more time in the Hebrew Bible I actually think I've often heard some of these
anti-missionaries kind of catching Christians off guard and kind of attacking them for their faith
in Jesus and twisting the Old Testament and when I hear these interviews and they're very one-sided
obviously my my thinking is but if that believer actually knew the Hebrew Bible better they would
actually be able to defend themselves right and so hopefully this series will give believers
an incentive like the bereans to search the scriptures to see that these things are in fact
the case so is this theory is only for believers or no actually so that brings us to our third goal
and we are really wanting to help Seekers whether they're Gentile or Jewish people who have not yet
put their faith in Jesus and they're they're searching the issues we want to make sure that
people that are searching actually have uh resources available to them to check and see
whether in fact Jesus is the Jewish Messiah and the Messiah of the world so we already released a
few episodes of of this series what if some of the uh some of the feedback we got so the feedback's
been very interesting so actually one person actually actually wrote on the Isaiah 53 podcast
that I have to reconsider my position because apparently what I heard from an anti-missionary
is not the whole story and so he thanked us so that that would be one I I've also noticed
some other interesting reactions sometimes people just simply attack you us they just say that's the
person but that's okay right we we're used to that My Philosophy teacher used to say you got to put
on your big boy pants right and so we we can take that that's okay and we don't hold any grudges
obviously but it's it's kind of attacking the the person rather than the argument and then I've also
seen some people that have been incredibly dismissive like well of course you're wrong
but what's interesting is the way that we're doing this series is we're just simply pointing
to evidence and so the way if if we're wrong we're open to that aren't we but the way that
you're going to have to show that we're wrong is not by attacking us personally but by actually
dealing with the the textual evidence that we're presenting and so hopefully hopefully
we'll continue to to do these podcasts in a way that's respectful we have we're not angry
at anti-missionaries and we welcome the debate right the anti-missionaries aren't our enemies
right we we know who the true enemy is and we would exactly we want I I think that it's really
important in the medieval period has shown us how wrong it is it horrific to attack people and to
call them names and to demonize people because of ideas and so I think that the intellectual
way and the kind way in the gracious way is not to attack but to actually show the
evidence I mean you know after after you you you clarified the objectives I can't wait for the for
the next episode yeah and we've got several more coming oh man God bless you my brother
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